For Rochester "an AHL original" to be drawing 4000 or so fans on weekends is a huge indicator they have declined in the collective sports interest of the greater Rochester region. That was unheard of back in the 1990s. They are slowly heading towards the same trend as Albany did, but.fortunately for them they havent bottomed out yet. RIT and Atlantic hockey have cut into the market only by a little but with the AHL changes the last five years gone are the days when AHL teams priority was to win games at the AHL level. With around 4K or 5K crowds playing in an 11,000 plus seat building in Rochester they arent too far off from Albany....
another rumbling:
- Thread starter CHRDANHUTCH
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For Rochester "an AHL original" to be drawing 4000 or so fans on weekends is a huge indicator they have declined in the collective sports interest of the greater Rochester region. That was unheard of back in the 1990s. They are slowly heading towards the same trend as Albany did, but.fortunately for them they havent bottomed out yet. RIT and Atlantic hockey have cut into the market only by a little but with the AHL changes the last five years gone are the days when AHL teams priority was to win games at the AHL level. With around 4K or 5K crowds playing in an 11,000 plus seat building in Rochester they arent too far off from Albany....
crimsonace
Registered User
In the 1990s, there also were not ...
*-250 TV channels
*-HDTV & home theaters
*-Every single NHL game coming into your home
The competition is FAR greater now than it was then. There's no real comparison between 20 years ago and today when it comes to attendance, because there are far more entertainment options than there once were. The AHL's business model has also changed - although the reality has ALWAYS been to serve the NHL team, even in the 1990s. Rochester is a solid market, they'll be fine.
That's basically what I was getting at, although I don't buy into the TV theory as much as some make it out to be. Most of the 250 channels are nonsense. A media survey done by an organization I am associated with determined most subscribers are paying for more product then they consume. HDTV is crisper but a good TV twenty years ago did me just fine, in fact I still watch my old 27" RCA CRT tv in my bedroom. NHL on TV has little bearing on AHL attendance, many consumers in smaller markets like Albany or Rochester are just looking for something fun to do on a night out. Much of that excitement is media influenced. If the local news media don't view the AHL with any significance like what is starting to happen in Rochester the slow decline starts to trend in the overall perception. Albany is a prime example whereby the media no longer views the AHL with much significance. Older fan base dies off, the new generation of 20s and 30 year olds take to other forms of sports entertainment, or too busy with young kids at home starting families. Places like Albany and Rochester are caught in the middle. Both are too small to be major cities, yet bigger then places like Utica, Binghamton, Hershey/Harrisburg, and other like size cities with little to do and small market media. Nobody is saying Rochester is bottoming out but the trend right now is downward. They don't have the local ownership, and they are affiliated with a hopeless Buffalo. If Buffalo can find the resources to put together a strong AHL team, and the ownership can come to respect what Rochester is to Buffalo then hopefully things will trend the other way. Right now what eventually caused Albany's decline after the 2000s is what is disturbingly trending in Rochester. The big difference is Rochester is a hockey town, Albany NY is an "entertain me" or we want a winning and no less town, Albany is not a traditional area known for hockey. That's what separate the two cities.
the only problem is, NS, you would've lost Rochester about 7 seasons ago because they came awful close to ceasing operations had Buffalo not bought them.
Sports Enthusiast
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Could be that or could it just be that the AHL and ECHL products are getting worse these days? Rivalries aren't a thing, the games aren't physical and most franchises don't focus on winning. Its not 1995 anymore, unfortunately for the fans.
Sports Enthusiast
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You have a good point across the board HOWEVER I would say the difference between what the AHL has ALWAYS been and what IT IS now is different. Now you have a lot more NHL ownerships. Minor leagues are also bigger so you play more teams. Rivalries just don't exist. Some would argue that NHL ownerships infiltrating the league is great but if you look at the past and factor it all in, it actually hurts the product overall. A team with local ownership probably cares a lot less about development as compared to winning because they have no investment on the top club financially and they know that in order to make money they have to have a good team that wins. Even then its still a "long shot" but it is their best and only shot.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Well I mean if you want to debunk TV it can be done but now we have things like Netflix or hulu as well. People don't even really need cable anymore.
Places like Albany and Rochester and other cities within NYS also have enough poverty and with the overall national economy getting worse and the middle class shrinking the difference between the tippy tippy top and the bottom has never been greater and most in NY are more towards the bottom than the top, especially in inner cities which need the government to survive and run, although function very weakly.
Could it be that they WERE a hockey town? I mean you could make the entertainment argument nationally. In the big cities you just have a bunch of rich people handing out tickets or wanting to go to be seen. I feel like society not just in common sense but interests is really changing. As these products get worse I think traditional markets can lose interest.
Disengage
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2007
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yes there was, Rochester was considering folding back then, and there was a thread here discussing the potential probability of that, incredulous as it may have seemed then, it's a wonder the Americans survived the brief interruption of the Sabres....
Sports Enthusiast
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They were in dire shambles at the end of the Styres tenure. That's not exactly earth shattering news. Something would have happened. Fold? That sounds extreme maybe the league would have done what they could try to do but they were in a real dire situation. They are lucky a billionaire was bored enough to buy the buffalo team to begin with probably.
Disengage
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2007
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Sports Enthusiast
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Fake news is the news they don't want you to hear. The world is a very brainwashed and controlled place where people live in their happy bubbles lol
Disengage
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- Nov 11, 2007
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Tommy Hawk
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- May 27, 2006
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All teams are considering folding at one time or another. Or is that o team ever folds, they just move.
I am going for the idea of the practice squad. I like that a lot. Then the minor league teams are not associated with any NHL team and if an NHL teams wants someone, they can just get them. Of course the NHLPA will hate that because that will eliminate a lot of people on NHL contracts.
I am going for the idea of the practice squad. I like that a lot. Then the minor league teams are not associated with any NHL team and if an NHL teams wants someone, they can just get them. Of course the NHLPA will hate that because that will eliminate a lot of people on NHL contracts.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Why do they need so many guys on contracts even if they won't play in the league that year?
Unions are too powerful. I get that owners and TV won't stick up for the players but its why in the NBA teams can rest their starting lineup and just tank certain games.
I just wonder would the league survive long term? Operating obviously is more then the ECHL which is mostly independent operating, if not all.
Pretty interesting write up on Albany, add this to rumblings...
http://thehockeywriters.com/ahl-return-to-albany-in-2018-19/
http://thehockeywriters.com/ahl-return-to-albany-in-2018-19/
Any long term move out of Rochester would be an act of pure stupidity, especially now that the Bills and Sabres are linked by the owner and President.
But the Sabres want investments from the City of Rochester and moving the team (or threatening to move the team) is there best leverage.
But the Sabres want investments from the City of Rochester and moving the team (or threatening to move the team) is there best leverage.
The AHL can survive without Rochester, the pacific expansion has all but put to rest the AHL depending on east coast and Midwest markets. Demographics in the east have changed. At one time the NHL in Buffalo and the AHL in Rochester was the only thing going on in town. The arts, entertainment, and college and high school sports investments have really dented the market share. Not to mention sadly in 2007 the introduction of the smart phone to the masses. Kids today, teens especially, don't even flock to the malls like they once did. In the 1980s and 1990s that was the place to be.....Time are changing, times have changed.
Crunchrulz
Registered User
I have to agree with Nightsquad. Take the Rochester-Syracuse rivalry. Or perhaps take the rivalry even five years ago. Tickets were hard to come by, and both teams played with that extra grit and snarl that made the rivalry what it was. With the new AHL, either team getting a three or more goal lead means the fans head out early as nothing is going to happen. Just a few short years ago, that was the signal that the fun was about to begin and you have better have your head on a swivel. Sad to see what once was intense become passive, but with the new rules the AHL has, Ice Capades is more often than not the rule of the rink.
Yea the old bingo rochester rival is dead too. That rivalry in the 70's-90's was best in league. Now nothing. Hell Bingo doesn't even have a rival anymore.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
Not really as much, I think the WBS Pens enjoy coming down here to Allentown and playing over in Hershey more so then Binghamton.
Utica has taken Rochester's spot in the rivalry with Syracuse. Pretty intense games between these two teams.....
Agalloch
EliteProspects
NY Rangers could be looking to move their affiliate in Albany for 18-19 season.
Someone from our staff that attended the press conference up in Glens Falls NY yesterday had mentioned they overheard a conversation suggesting their affiliation with the Devils was for only one season as they heard the NY Rangers were looking to locate both their minor league teams within New York state after next season. This could either set up the Rangers AHL team landing in Albany and or possibly Utica NY was also mentioned. Adirondack after next season could pick up the ECHL affiliation of the Rangers but they also suggested if the league allows them they would be willing to be a dual affiliation. My colleague also heard people in Albany were going to take a hard look first at whether or not their was an economic impact or not during this up coming season without a team before launching a full effort. I imagine the loss of an AHL team hits Utica harder economically then say Albany. Albany's arena is getting a 30 million dollar facelift this year so it should be interesting.
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