another rumbling:

[Nightsquad]

There was an article a couple years ago in the Times Union about the poor attendance that gave the reasoning for the 5:00 pm Saturday game starts. The team felt like it had a positive impact on attendance because more people from locations of an hour + away (especially the Glens Falls area) would come to Devils games if the games ended before 8:00 pm. To me it sounded like they realized there wasn't enough interest in the Devils if the greater Albany, Troy, Schenectady area so they needed to market to a larger area.

That is not accurate whatsoever. The 5pm according to relatives and friends I have from up that way said there was plenty of backlash about the start times, many fans actually stated that is why they didn't go to games anymore, opting instead to attend college games. Its pretty well talked about how Albany fans for years made the less then hour drive north of Albany to attend games in Glens Falls, but is was pretty well known that fans from up north wouldn't make the drive down to Albany. That fan base (Adirondack) had openly discussed about not helping to sustain attendance in Albany, coupled with the 5pm starts that ticked off Albany fans. There was once a time when both Adirondack and Albany fed off of each other nicely. The ECHL Thunder's increase in attendance this season is being driven from fans south who attend weekend games. The Thunder might be drawing more fans had they not agreed to an affiliation with the Devils organization.

My own cousin said the Devils called him for flex tickets sales and he said 5pm starts interfere with many daytime events, and the 5pm starts disrupt dinner time out for his wife and him. He stated the Devils told him the 5pm starts are ideal for developmental purposes, and it helps drive dinner sales inside the arena. He told me the 5pm start times kept him from wanting to go to games down in Albany more so then the fact the team was the Devils (he is a Rangers fan who always had 10 or 20 game flex tickets with the River Rats). He said attendance really went on the decline in 2010 when the Devils returned, and the fact they played 4 games a season down in Atlantic City and one game in Newark the first few years turned him off completely. It really doesn't matter though at this point, the Devils are gone they broke contract further alienating area fans, not sure what that guy on television was talking about though, I don't know why he would throw that statement out there. The Devils weren't invested in Albany, it was obvious by how they operated. You cannot just throw a team on the ice and say here you guys go. A solid professional minor league team requires investment from the fans as much as it does from the organization, the Devils weren't vested in Albany.

 

[Crunchrulz]

Albany has proven they cannot support an AHL franchise. Any organization thinking of moving their franchised there would have to be promised the entire city plus the keys to Gov Cuomo's residence to even consider moving there. There are plenty of other cities throughout the US and Canada that deserve a chance far more than Albany deserves another.

 

[zetajerk]

Albany has proven they cannot support an AHL franchise. Any organization thinking of moving their franchised there would have to be promised the entire city plus the keys to Gov Cuomo's residence to even consider moving there. There are plenty of other cities throughout the US and Canada that deserve a chance far more than Albany deserves another.

Springfield was bottom of the league in attendance and they turned it around with a new organization. I don't know why Albany triggers people here so much.

Hell, Binghamton isn't exactly selling out their building, but that's ok I guess.

 

[Nightsquad]

Springfield was bottom of the league in attendance and they turned it around with a new organization. I don't know why Albany triggers people here so much.

Hell, Binghamton isn't exactly selling out their building, but that's ok I guess.

There have been a few teams over the years that drew less then Albany. The only people that have issue with Albany are the same old people mainly from the rest of Upstate NY like Binghamton, Utica, and Syracuse. Its usually all out of jealousy I guess. Dying cities trying to hold on to something they can say the Capital Region doesn't have over them, its actually pretty sad. They blame Albany as a symbol of the troubles that plague their community when in fact its NYC the controls the pulse of the whole state, and the failures of their own local political leaders.

If any upstate city has a gripe it is Albany. Look at the % of return they get while that whole area is a tax revenue mess. Albany NY and the greater capital region of the state has probably the most tax exempt property. The city of Albany where most of the state and federal government property is located is probably such a financial burden on city resources I couldn't even imagine. Back on subject Albany's attendance probably sucked more to do with reasons which could more so rest with the Devils organization more then anything. I know they are expecting well in excess of 7000 for Saturday nights game between Union and RPI which is pretty darn good. When the Ranger played a pre season game in Albany few years back on a Wednesday night over 9000 fans showed up mostly to cheer the Rangers playing the Devils in their minor league teams own building lol. My cousin said easily the crowd was almost 7000 Ranger fans to a little over 2000 Devils fans lol.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Let's try to steer a little bit away from city sniping.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I think the expansion of sports television has hurt minor league sports attendance. Friends/families would go out to attend a game especially in their wasn't a NHL game on TV. Now you can have a choice at home of multiple game NHL games or even AHL game, for a cheaper price. Yea, cities economies and fan interest has something to with attendance, but I think the wider variety of entertainment choice now has more to do with declining attendance.

 

[go comets]

There have been a few teams over the years that drew less then Albany. The only people that have issue with Albany are the same old people mainly from the rest of Upstate NY like Binghamton, Utica, and Syracuse. Its usually all out of jealousy I guess. Dying cities trying to hold on to something they can say the Capital Region doesn't have over them, its actually pretty sad. They blame Albany as a symbol of the troubles that plague their community when in fact its NYC the controls the pulse of the whole state, and the failures of their own local political leaders.

If any upstate city has a gripe it is Albany. Look at the % of return they get while that whole area is a tax revenue mess. Albany NY and the greater capital region of the state has probably the most tax exempt property. The city of Albany where most of the state and federal government property is located is probably such a financial burden on city resources I couldn't even imagine. Back on subject Albany's attendance probably sucked more to do with reasons which could more so rest with the Devils organization more then anything. I know they are expecting well in excess of 7000 for Saturday nights game between Union and RPI which is pretty darn good. When the Ranger played a pre season game in Albany few years back on a Wednesday night over 9000 fans showed up mostly to cheer the Rangers playing the Devils in their minor league teams own building lol. My cousin said easily the crowd was almost 7000 Ranger fans to a little over 2000 Devils fans lol.

Oh god... Here we go again.....
Drawing 7,000 to a college hockey game has nothing to do with the AHL. My experience with any college game is 1/2 to 3/4 of the fans are students whom get in free with their college ID.

As far as an NHL exhibition game, even I have driven the 2 hours to Albany to see a pre season game, as well as a lot of other people. but if you think those same fans are gonna show up weekly for AHL games, you are suffering from a serious lack of judgment.......

 

[ek93]

The only people that have issue with Albany are the same old people mainly from the rest of Upstate NY like Binghamton, Utica, and Syracuse. Its usually all out of jealousy I guess.

No one in Binghamton cares about the state of hockey in Albany.

 

[ek93]

Springfield was bottom of the league in attendance and they turned it around with a new organization. I don't know why Albany triggers people here so much.

Hell, Binghamton isn't exactly selling out their building, but that's ok I guess.

The reason Albany "triggers" people so much is because every single thread about anything involving the AHL turns into an Albany thread. We're tired of hearing about it. Personally I had hoped that the constant comparisons of Albany to other cities who currently have franchises would have ended by now. And I know that it's not coming from you, so don't feel as though this post is an attack at you or anything, but that is the reason nobody wants to talk about Albany.

As far as attendance goes, Bingo averaging 3,838 in a 4,710 building while being by far the worst team in the league is a lot better than averaging 3,343 over the 7 seasons the Devils were in Albany in that massive arena.

 

[UticaHockey]

The reason Albany "triggers" people so much is because every single thread about anything involving the AHL turns into an Albany thread. We're tired of hearing about it. Personally I had hoped that the constant comparisons of Albany to other cities who currently have franchises would have ended by now. And I know that it's not coming from you, so don't feel as though this post is an attack at you or anything, but that is the reason nobody wants to talk about Albany.

As far as attendance goes, Bingo averaging 3,838 in a 4,710 building while being by far the worst team in the league is a lot better than averaging 3,343 over the 7 seasons the Devils were in Albany in that massive arena.

What he said.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

No one in Binghamton cares about the state of hockey in Albany.

Thank you. Nor in Utica.

 

[go comets]

President Dave Andrews announced today that other than the new Colorado team, there are no franchise changes for the 2018-19 AHL season.

 

[Nightsquad]

President Dave Andrews announced today that other than the new Colorado team, there are no franchise changes for the 2018-19 AHL season.

Doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. The same person that downplayed the western migration and ECHL swap mid season. Adirondack, Manchester, and Norfolk caught by surprise. Wasn't that all being downplayed during the halfway point of that season as well if memory serves me right? Bottom line is he is a great hockey builder, but at the end of the day the NHL and big money interests call the shots.

The Colorado addition was already announced and was very much anticipated to be the only addition next season, so no surprise there. I think it will be a solid move but will be interesting a year or two down the road how fans take to the AHL model. If its the same ownership group and Colorado supplies them with decent players then it should work well. I think fans in Stockton aren't very happy with the way they lost the ECHL Thunder, likewise Adirondack should have been afforded an opportunity to brand their own team. Years ago Barry Melrose and Steve Levy did it right by Adirondack after purchasing the UHL's Adirondack Icehawks and giving the fans an opportunity to rebrand that franchise.

 

[mk80]

Interesting article regarding San Diego's arena situation.

San Diego Prepping for a Major Redevelopment of Its Sports Arena Land

 

[mmazz22]

well said EK!

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I might've said this before, but Atlanta and Chicago were good partners mainly because of the airports, although I believe the Rangers or Devils could be good affiliates with them too. Which means Vegas and Chicago will be affiliates for a very, very long time. Like we'll see them affiliate with no other team.

Fresno would be another great choice for the Sharks AHL affiliate.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I might've said this before, but Atlanta and Chicago were good partners mainly because of the airports, although I believe the Rangers or Devils could be good affiliates with them too. Which means Vegas and Chicago will be affiliates for a very, very long time. Like we'll see them affiliate with no other team.

Fresno would be another great choice for the Sharks AHL affiliate.

Seiland just got the Fresno Monsters franchise back after the collapse of the ECHL Franchise, Makar, SJSE has no intention of relocating the Barracuda away from SAP Center unless it's a new practice facility

 

[PCSPounder]

Seiland just got the Fresno Monsters franchise back after the collapse of the ECHL Franchise, Makar, SJSE has no intention of relocating the Barracuda away from SAP Center unless it's a new practice facility

They’re only in Selland next weekend. It’d be silly to put P2P into Selland long-term.

 

[Agalloch]

Seattle as #32 seems to be the next NHL expansion, so where would be their AHL team, Idaho?

 

[UticaHockey]

Seattle as #32 seems to be the next NHL expansion, so where would be their AHL team, Idaho?

Way to early to tell and that is assuming that Seattle will want to own and operate their own AHL farm team. Vegas elected not to and partnered with an independently owned team in Chicago. Idaho would be very isolated from any other AHL team so it is not necessarily the obvious location. If Seattle chooses to operate their own AHL team I could see Vancouver staying in Utica a couple years beyond their current agreement and then moving to somewhere in BC while the new Seattle AHL team takes the spot of a current WHL Washington State city. I think the Canucks want to eventually have their AHL team closer to Vancouver but they don't want it isolated from the rest of the AHL. If the Seattle AHL team locates close to Seattle it could be the start of the AHL Pacific Northwest grouping of teams. Possibly Calgary moving from Stockton to another current WHL city. Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[GrGriffins]

Seattle as #32 seems to be the next NHL expansion, so where would be their AHL team, Idaho?

Maybe Seattle will end up doing a "Vegas move" to where they are not ready to run their AHL team on their own right away when they enter the NHL, and place their AHL affiliate in San Antonio and give Hunt Jr. and the Blues their own AHL team to run.

Then Lamar Hunt Jr. can do one of two options.

1. Get the AHL 32nd franchise and place it in Kansas City and keep the KC Mavericks in Independence, MO as their ECHL affiliate.

or

2. Place the AHL franchise in Independence, MO and have the Mavericks move up from the ECHL to the AHL and then figure out what to do with the rights to the ECHL team (move it elsewhere, give it back to the ECHL, or sell it to someone who is wanting to start a team).

Too early to tell on all this.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Maybe Seattle will end up doing a "Vegas move" to where they are not ready to run their AHL team on their own right away when they enter the NHL, and place their AHL affiliate in San Antonio and give Hunt Jr. and the Blues their own AHL team to run.

Then Lamar Hunt Jr. can do one of two options.

1. Get the AHL 32nd franchise and place it in Kansas City and keep the KC Mavericks in Independence, MO as their ECHL affiliate.

or

2. Place the AHL franchise in Independence, MO and have the Mavericks move up from the ECHL to the AHL and then figure out what to do with the rights to the ECHL team (move it elsewhere, give it back to the ECHL, or sell it to someone who is wanting to start a team).

Too early to tell on all this.

except: the AHL has essentially shut the door on Kansas City and the related Mavericks, because both the Mavericks and Blues have denied interest, nor do the Blues want to operate an affiliate, based off what is currently known, that's why Colorado acquired the 31st franchise, and the Blues are spreading players to various teams until Colorado completes their contract in San Antonio, and didn't the Blues sign a 5 year development contract effective in 2018/19 to align in San Antonio....

Hunt has no interest in doing what the Colorado Eagles will be doing or various other former ECHL Clubs have done when acquiring AHL Licenses, otherwise, Colorado doesn't acquire the 31st franchise, and the KC discussion remains in the background

 

[PCSPounder]

When you get 33,000 deposits in less than 36 hours, you virtually have to direct some of that energy closer to home. The only good moves are either (1) displace the Silvertips in Everett, or (2) spend a lot more money to gain management rights over the Tacoma Dome and have it renovated to your satisfaction. Since (by my spitballing, anyway) the Thunderbirds will probably remain active for the near future in Kent, Tacoma would be splitting the South Sound market and thus be a distant 2nd choice.

With all that money flying around, placing a team back east is a dumb idea. Sticking close to home will make more dosh. AHL and American WHL ticket prices are rather similar (certainly in Portland, anyway). Vancouver bringing a franchise closer to home will help as well.

Boise's an interesting idea in that it "defends" a TV market Seattle is about to create... but Boise will care less for being Seattle's stooge than they do a normally competitive Steelheads. They like a bit of independence, they want to win trophies, so that market is all wrong for an AHL team. The big questions, however: can the ECHL remain viable? If not, will Tri-City be able to stick around so that Boise could join the WHL (if that doesn't recede from the USA)? Or is Boise going to be the next market Calgary burns because they have no choice but the AHL?

 

[GrGriffins]

except: the AHL has essentially shut the door on Kansas City and the related Mavericks, because both the Mavericks and Blues have denied interest, nor do the Blues want to operate an affiliate, based off what is currently known, that's why Colorado acquired the 31st franchise, and the Blues are spreading players to various teams until Colorado completes their contract in San Antonio, and didn't the Blues sign a 5 year development contract effective in 2018/19 to align in San Antonio....

Hunt has no interest in doing what the Colorado Eagles will be doing or various other former ECHL Clubs have done when acquiring AHL Licenses, otherwise, Colorado doesn't acquire the 31st franchise, and the KC discussion remains in the background

But times could and has changed since the rumor deal with Kansas City/Mavericks and the Blues now that Seattle is now in the picture for an NHL expansion team. Sure the Blues have signed a 5 yr deal to have San Antonio to be their AHL affiliate, but I'm sure that if something comes up during that time period, that there is a provision that the Blues can buy out the remaining portion of the agreement and go after getting their own AHL team. You have a hard time grasping that every time something like this comes up.

The same could be said if Vegas decides that they are ready to field their own AHL affiliate and could buy out Chicago and then go pursue their own AHL team as well. Just pointing out all the possible scenarios that could happen. We are talking at least 2-3 years away for this to happen (pending NHL BOG official approval of Seattle as the 32nd team and when the arena is done).

Fans are just trying to point out what could happen if Seattle is the 32nd NHL team and most people on this board knows that if the NHL adds a team, their little brother AHL has to follow their big brother and add one as well. Just speculation on all of our part for now until the NHL accepts Seattle as their 32nd team and when that happens, you will see the other events that I and others here have brought up or mentioned, to come to reality.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

But times could and has changed since the rumor deal with Kansas City/Mavericks and the Blues now that Seattle is now in the picture for an NHL expansion team. Sure the Blues have signed a 5 yr deal to have San Antonio to be their AHL affiliate, but I'm sure that if something comes up during that time period, that there is a provision that the Blues can buy out the remaining portion of the agreement and go after getting their own AHL team. You have a hard time grasping that every time something like this comes up.

The same could be said if Vegas decides that they are ready to field their own AHL affiliate and could buy out Chicago and then go pursue their own AHL team as well. Just pointing out all the possible scenarios that could happen. We are talking at least 2-3 years away for this to happen (pending NHL BOG official approval of Seattle as the 32nd team and when the arena is done).

Fans are just trying to point out what could happen if Seattle is the 32nd NHL team and most people on this board knows that if the NHL adds a team, their little brother AHL has to follow their big brother and add one as well. Just speculation on all of our part for now until the NHL accepts Seattle as their 32nd team and when that happens, you will see the other events that I and others here have brought up or mentioned, to come to reality.

I seriously doubt that, GR, SHOW ME EVIDENCE by 2021 or 22, which is when Seattle is scheduled to come aboard.... It is highly doubtful, given what transpired last summer, that the Hunts are even considering the Mavericks abandoning their current league(yes, they are the Flames affiliate as of now, but I do not see either the Blues nor the AHL revisiting any KC franchise, otherwise, why would they have ended all talk of the Mavericks doing what Colorado's Eagles (and others, notably Charlotte, comes to mind) will be doing in 2018/19.... and beyond....

I also don't see Vegas going through any issues with Don Levin and the Wolves over buyout of an agreement in which Vegas has sole control of all personnel, something that was negotiated, and why Vegas essentially replaced St. Louis as that contract wasn't going to be renewed, even if Vegas hadn't been the other party in those discussions, would the result have changed and Colorado's Eagles remain in their current league, I don't believe it would....

there was a rumor that Levin would've abandoned the Wolves had he been awarded the Seattle franchise, not OVG, TOO AT ONE POINT.

In fact, why is the ECHL stuck at 28 teams, potentially 29, IF PRO HOCKEY returns to St. John's, so if the AHL requires 32, the E, IS FURTHER behind as to the comment about # of franchises.