Another Lockout

[Eisen]

News flash comrade it’s a legitimate business.
Do you dislike capitalism?
The owners are it in for the money as are the players.
You expect entrepreneurs to subsidize pro sports as a hobby?
Wow just wow

Yes, I dislike capitalism.
And yes, I expect the owners to treat it as a hobby.

 

[Saltcreek]

Yes, I dislike capitalism.
And yes, I expect the owners to treat it as a hobby.

How about you front a half a billion dollars and buy a team then? While you are at it can you make sure you lose money on this venture?

 

[Name Nameless]

There’s a new USA TV deal in 2021... a lockout would mess with that

To much money at stake this time around

Many, many people use an argument like this.

Sadly, it is not an argument for why the players should sign the next CBA. It's an argument for them not signing it, demanding better conditions...

It's an argument for why it will be a lockout. "Oh, yeah? Why don't you owners just give us what we want, and there will be peace? You don't want to mess with that new TV-deal you are getting or anything, will you?"

You have heard of the game of chicken, right?

Just brace. Sorry.

 

[Saltcreek]

Many, many people use an argument like this.

Sadly, it is not an argument for why the players should sign the next CBA. It's an argument for them not signing it, demanding better conditions...

It's an argument for why it will be a lockout. "Oh, yeah? Why don't you owners just give us what we want, and there will be peace? You don't want to mess with that new TV-deal you are getting or anything, will you?"

You have heard of the game of chicken, right?

Just brace. Sorry.

I am going to disagree with this. A lockout could have a very large and negative impact on the next TV deal. A lockout will mean a smaller hockey market (for a time being) and this will lead to a lesser TV deal which in turn means less revenue etc. Obtaining the best TV deal possible will benefit everyone.

Also, what conditions need to be improved? The current CBA is not perfect but it is far from bad. I am curious to what you think the players and owners may stand firm on.

 

[JD1]

50-50 has been proposed, but it's currently 57-43. And 50-50 would be worse, so that's a moot point.

The NHLPA uses the escalator because in addition to the players already bringing in millions, they're beholden to a lot of players who are not and are looking for very significant raises when they hit free agency. That requires cap space, which forces the NHLPA to balance between a higher cap and higher escrow, essentially sacrificing money on existing contracts so union members can get new contracts.

They shouldn't have to make that choice. The owners shouldn't be entitled to a minimum return on money that they freely chose to invest. Wages that are contractually agreed upon should be met. Period.

You keep upping the ante on how far off base you are in this discussion. The revenue split is 50 50 and has been since the last lockout. Escrow is used to ensure the owners receive their 50%

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Why does everyone deserve tickets?

Think a little.

Terrible take master strikes again.

So, people who work hard and have kids who like hockey shouldn't be allowed to take their families to a game because it's likely going to cause them to worry about money later on ?

Why don't you offer up some of your money and pay for those to attend some games?

Should a family outing to go see a game really cost them 5, 600 or more ?

Hockey has already squeezed low income families out of it, now it's starting to squeeze the middle class out of it.

Soon, if it's so lucky, hockey will just be like basketball where people just go to games because it's a cool thing to do, while the fans can't get in.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Make it like the Packers.

The Packers are still owned by the people. The Packers have a structure in place that pays for the teams meals and transportation and whatever other costs are involved with running a team.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I know but four lockouts with being commissioner he might end up having to take the blame.

He has the job because the previous commissioner let/had the PA strike before the playoffs in 1992. While the players have gained in some respects(like a lower UFA age), overall, the owners are doing pretty well, even with 3 lockouts and 2 seasons worth of games lost in 20+ years.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Survive? They're wiping their asses with $100 bills.

Very, very few people with the financial muscle to buy a major sports franchise made their money in sports. They don't really need the revenue outside of what is required to keep the lights on.

The 57-43 split is to make sure they line their pockets on top of whatever obscene number they're gouging off of their main business.

Yes, without owners (and players) the league will not survive.

 

[Eisen]

How about you front a half a billion dollars and buy a team then? While you are at it can you make sure you lose money on this venture?

I don't have that, but when I do I will.

 

[Eisen]

The Packers are still owned by the people. The Packers have a structure in place that pays for the teams meals and transportation and whatever other costs are involved with running a team.

True, but the profit goes into the Packers, not a single owner iirc.

 

[Saltcreek]

True, but the profit goes into the Packers, not a single owner iirc.

But I thought sports teams were not allowed to make a profit? How is a team having multiple owners over one owner any different?

 

[Sensung]

You keep upping the ante on how far off base you are in this discussion. The revenue split is 50 50 and has been since the last lockout. Escrow is used to ensure the owners receive their 50%

And it could actually be used to ensure the players receive their 50% if less than 50% of HRR went to players salaries.

 

[Eisen]

But I thought sports teams were not allowed to make a profit? How is a team having multiple owners over one owner any different?

They can, but it shouldn't be expected.
And the Packers's shareholders don't get any money from the shares. They have them because they are fans and like the sport. That's a big difference.

 

[txpd]

It was already before. I predict a lengthy lockout, at least half a season.

The landscape has changed significantly since the last lockout. The challenges of keeping market share is greater. I think they know this well enough to avoid a work stoppage.

That said, it would be just awesome if they could stop playing long enough to keep Ovechkin from threatening Gretzky's goals record. Nobody wants to see that. They can kill it with a good long lockout/strike

 

[Sensung]

They can, but it shouldn't be expected.

The bigger problem is that owners claiming “losses” for a portion of their business are completely meaningless and based on Hollywood accounting. Look at the overall business operations and the owners are making money.

Billionaires aren’t plopping down 650M expansion fees to buy into a league to lose money.

 

[joe dirte]

Ok, then that's worse. Thank you.

Who's getting a pay raise? The salaries are set. It's whatever the two parties agree to in the contract and that's what they earn for however many years they sign for. They're entitled to earn that amount which the owner agreed to, not a raise.

You've somehow turned this into a raise in your own mind.

Are you arguing remiving the salary cap? Its not clear whether you are or not.

 

[Saltcreek]

Are you arguing remiving the salary cap? Its not clear whether you are or not.

I honestly have no clue on what he is trying to convey outside that he hates the owners and that the players are blameless.

 

[Eisen]

The bigger problem is that owners claiming “losses” for a portion of their business are completely meaningless and based on Hollywood accounting. Look at the overall business operations and the owners are making money.

Billionaires aren’t plopping down 650M expansion fees to buy into a league to lose money.

Indeed, just split until you find losses.

 

[Eisen]

The landscape has changed significantly since the last lockout. The challenges of keeping market share is greater. I think they know this well enough to avoid a work stoppage.

That said, it would be just awesome if they could stop playing long enough to keep Ovechkin from threatening Gretzky's goals record. Nobody wants to see that. They can kill it with a good long lockout/strike

I know what you mean. I feel like that about Howe's games played record.

 

[BruinsBtn]

A strike is far more likely than a lockout

 

[joe dirte]

Terrible take master strikes again.

So, people who work hard and have kids who like hockey shouldn't be allowed to take their families to a game because it's likely going to cause them to worry about money later

Why don't you offer up some of your money and pay for those to attend some games?

Should a family outing to go see a game really cost them 5, 600 or more ?

Hockey has already squeezed low income families out of it, now it's starting to squeeze the middle class out of it.

Soon, if it's so lucky, hockey will just be like basketball where people just go to games because it's a cool thing to do, while the fans can't get in.

They are allowed. If they cant afford it thats their problem. Thats just life. Some people can afford more than others.

Should people who work hard and have kids but like big houses not be allowed to live in 5000 square foot mansions because its going to make them worry about money later on?

Should people who work hard and have kids but like nice cars not be allowed to drive ferrarris because its going to make them worry about money later on?

Go to an AHL or CHL game if you cant afford the NHL.

 

[txpd]

I know what you mean. I feel like that about Howe's games played record.

Frankly I cant believe they allowed Ripken to break Gerhig's consecutive games record after a work stoppage. It might be better if the NHL just finished out this CBA and then disbanded.

 

[Saltcreek]

They can, but it shouldn't be expected.
And the Packers's shareholders don't get any money from the shares. They have them because they are fans and like the sport. That's a big difference.

The moment the Packers start losing money they will have to look at alternative means to return to profitability. The organisation cannot run a deficit for long, so yes, a profit is to be expected especially in the case of the Packers. The whole reason the packers sold worthless shares was to raise capital to operate the business...

 

[joe dirte]

I honestly have no clue on what he is trying to convey outside that he hates the owners and that the players are blameless.

The salary cap has allowed smaller market teams survive, which has really allowed the NHL to grab hold and grow the game. This leads to bigger tv deals, merchandise sales, and more revenue.

The players, over time, have really done well since the salary cap was inplemented. Their salaries have skyrocketed moreso than ever before.