Another expansion/relocation article with a twist

[gstommylee]

I doubt it's that high. Maybe 200m. But even that seems high when they only charged 60m for Atlanta to move, and the last expansion fee was Minnesota and Columbus (at 80m each). So yeah, I could see 150-200m, but I have a hard time believing it would go too far north of that.

SO on the other hand... easily twice whatever Seattle is charged.

Relocation fee is not the same as a expansion fee.

The rumor of the sale price to the group that wanted to move the coyotes to seattle was 230.

Seattle is #13 in the US market and is expect to rise maybe as high as 11.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Riptide:

what franchise to Portland, Oregon, expansion or relocation aside, do you not realize that the common ownership in both markets is Paul Allen.... there has been nothing to indicate he is even considering a franchise bid, that's why the Seattle bid was contingent on getting the Sacramento franchise to replace the Sonics.... there is nothing to indicate Hansen was always going to operate the new Sonics franchise, had that been not been beaten by the NBA Board of Governors and Radek Vandiver leaving Golden State to keep the Kings in Sacramento....

There's currently no franchises in either the NBA/NHL even available for relocation now that Ice Arizona has succeded in the Coyotes saga....

Hartford/Markham/QC AREN'T EVEN OPTIONS.... how can you say Hartford's not supported even through that stunt of Baldwin's rebranding/marketing strategy. it's considered Rangers territory anyway, QC might have an arena by 2015, but Le Colisee was overdue to be replaced/modernized, just as JLA was new in 1979.

 

[gstommylee]

Riptide:

what franchise to Portland, Oregon, expansion or relocation aside, do you not realize that the common ownership in both markets is Paul Allen.... there has been nothing to indicate he is even considering a franchise bid, that's why the Seattle bid was contingent on getting the Sacramento franchise to replace the Sonics.... there is nothing to indicate Hansen was always going to operate the new Sonics franchise, had that been not been beaten by the NBA Board of Governors and Radek Vandiver leaving Golden State to keep the Kings in Sacramento....

There's currently no franchises in either the NBA/NHL even available for relocation now that Ice Arizona has succeded in the Coyotes saga....

Hartford/Markham/QC AREN'T EVEN OPTIONS.... how can you say Hartford's not supported even through that stunt of Baldwin's rebranding/marketing strategy. it's considered Rangers territory anyway, QC might have an arena by 2015, but Le Colisee was overdue to be replaced/modernized, just as JLA was new in 1979.

What in the world are you talking about in regards to the new sonics franchise? Hansen will be majority owner of the new sonics franchise. Paul Allen owns the seahawks and i doubt he is allowed to own a NHL team in Seattle.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

What in the world are you talking about in regards to the new sonics franchise? Hansen will be majority owner of the new sonics franchise. Paul Allen owns the seahawks and i doubt he is allowed to own a NHL team in Seattle.

read again, tommy, did I not say there's not an NBA franchise coming to Seattle, after Sacramento was sold..... some folks still have the impression that an NHL Team is part of the deal in Seattle.... Hansen now has to focus on the arena, now that the Kings target has gone away....

Allen will likely lose the Blazers upon that transition, as well as his interests in Seattle, at some point, that's why Gallacher was rumored in Portland...

wasn't the arena deal predicated on Hansen acquiring an NBA Tenant in addition to the arena, bc it seems ever since the Kings target, both iin Sacramento and Seattle it's gone media silent as to the proposed Seattle SODO Arena.

 

[Riptide]

Riptide:

what franchise to Portland, Oregon, expansion or relocation aside, do you not realize that the common ownership in both markets is Paul Allen.... there has been nothing to indicate he is even considering a franchise bid, that's why the Seattle bid was contingent on getting the Sacramento franchise to replace the Sonics.... there is nothing to indicate Hansen was always going to operate the new Sonics franchise, had that been not been beaten by the NBA Board of Governors and Radek Vandiver leaving Golden State to keep the Kings in Sacramento....

There's currently no franchises in either the NBA/NHL even available for relocation now that Ice Arizona has succeded in the Coyotes saga....

Hartford/Markham/QC AREN'T EVEN OPTIONS.... how can you say Hartford's not supported even through that stunt of Baldwin's rebranding/marketing strategy. it's considered Rangers territory anyway, QC might have an arena by 2015, but Le Colisee was overdue to be replaced/modernized, just as JLA was new in 1979.

Honestly, I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

 

[Killion]

....what franchise to Portland, Oregon, expansion or relocation aside, do you not realize that the common ownership in both markets is Paul Allen.... there has been nothing to indicate he is even considering a franchise bid...

Actually there was HUTCH... a story from credible sources surfaced earlier this year that yes, Paul Allen had been talking to the NHL about specifically the Coyotes and was quite serious about it. Obviously that went nowhere however I do believe he's on the Radar so to speak. I think it would fabulous to have teams in Portland & Seattle though if its one or the other, Seattle should be a lock.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Honestly, I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

the wildcard considering any Portland bid, Riptide, is Paul Allen, who else has the financial status to pursue a bid for a franchise if he chooses to... bc any franchise that he doesn't bid on, you still have to deal with him as a tenant depending on if the Rose Garden's a target facility.

 

[gstommylee]

read again, tommy, did I not say there's not an NBA franchise coming to Seattle, after Sacramento was sold..... some folks still have the impression that an NHL Team is part of the deal in Seattle.... Hansen now has to focus on the arena, now that the Kings target has gone away....

Allen will likely lose the Blazers upon that transition, as well as his interests in Seattle, at some point, that's why Gallacher was rumored in Portland...

wasn't the arena deal predicated on Hansen acquiring an NBA Tenant in addition to the arena, bc it seems ever since the Kings target, both iin Sacramento and Seattle it's gone media silent as to the proposed Seattle SODO Arena.

Under the NBA first option yes but he was also gonna be the owner of the NBA team when one comes but hansen for the time being is focusing on the NHL and possiblity doing a NHL first option to get the arena built while waiting for the NBA team.

 

[NHL Hartford]

Whoever considers Hartford NYR territory is severely mistaken. And in fact it's quite the opposite with fans here. Like I said CT sides with NE when it comes to hockey Whalers/Bruins maybe if you go to Fairfield county you'll find some Rangers fans but you'd be hard pressed to find all that many outside of Hartford.

 

[NHL Hartford]

And Qc, TO2 and Hartford are ALL in the mix with facilities. 5 years ago who would have thought Wpg was an option?

 

[tsanuri]

it also doesn't by default make Seattle/portland/quebec/tor2 look like a better option either...

Seattle = possible owner, no arena, junior hockey fanbase (apparently that's enough for an NHL team now?)
Portland = no owner, arena to use, no fan base
Quebec = Arena by 2015 (brand new at that), rabid fanbase, billionaire owner
Tor2 = No arena (cannot share ACC), fan base would have to split between leafs and Sabres, possible owner...
Hartford = no arena, no potential owner, rabid fanbase...

Let's be realistic... the ONLY location that will be prepared for expansion in the next several years is QC, and that is it.

It's possible Seattle comes up around then too, but the arena still hasn't broken ground yet.

You couldn't be more wrong about Portland. Allen was ready to buy the Yotes and move them into the Rose Garden. And maybe you have heard of a team called the Winterhawks. Portland of the options within the US is the best setup right now.
http://www.oregonsportsnews.com/team-news/other-news/portland-may-finally-get-nhl-hockey.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/i...re_ready_to_buy_nhls_phoenix_coyotes_mov.html

 

[gstommylee]

You couldn't be more wrong about Portland. Allen was ready to buy the Yotes and move them into the Rose Garden. And maybe you have heard of a team called the Winterhawks. Portland of the options within the US is the best setup right now.
http://www.oregonsportsnews.com/team-news/other-news/portland-may-finally-get-nhl-hockey.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/i...re_ready_to_buy_nhls_phoenix_coyotes_mov.html

Both seattle and portland should be the two expansion teams. Portland is too far south for Vancouver fans to want to travel unless they are taking train or transit bus

 

[KevFu]

The NHL-36 conspiracy theory addresses every single one of these things.

Slam dunk successful markets in QUE, GTA2 (Markham)
Probable successful markets that open up the Pacific Northwest (Portland, Seattle)
A big TV market that will most-likely be solid based on a peer success story (Houston)
An experiment that would bring massive media attention to the league (Las Vegas)
That's two eastern time zone teams, and four non-ETZ teams, providing balance and happiness.

The NHL can support more teams than the NBA, NFL, MLB because the culture of hockey in Canada makes markets FAR too small for major pro sports in America, financially viable for the NHL.

 

[gstommylee]

And Qc, TO2 and Hartford are ALL in the mix with facilities. 5 years ago who would have thought Wpg was an option?

And the NHL would be stupid to do the next expansion all east time zone cities. They gain very little for the next US TV contract and essentially will lose the option to EVER have a team in seattle cause there won't be an arena being built by the time the next team is available unless seattle gets a NBA team. And that is not happening anytime soon.

 

[NHL Hartford]

And the NHL would be stupid to do the next expansion all east time zone cities. They gain very little for the next US TV contract and essentially will lose the option to EVER have a team in seattle cause there won't be an arena being built by the time the next team is available unless seattle gets a NBA team. And that is not happening anytime soon.

This thread is titled expansion/relocation. I believe Qc & Seattle will get expansion (Det or CBJ back West). If/when the Coyotes need to move Portland will be there and if/when an EC team needs to move (whomever it may be) Hartford would be my choice for relocation unless the NHL wants more than 8 teams in Canada in which case they would consider TO2 as well, but then that sort of contradicts the whole point of TO2 which is the hefty expansion fee it would supposedly net the league. I'd guess it would be safe to assume TO2 would have to pony up an absurd relocation fee instead. For all the challenges Hartford faces, TO2 runs into a lot of red tape comparatively.

 

[gstommylee]

This thread is titled expansion/relocation. I believe Qc & Seattle will get expansion (Det or CBJ back West). If/when the Coyotes need to move Portland will be there and if/when an EC team needs to move (whomever it may be) Hartford would be my choice for relocation unless the NHL wants more than 8 teams in Canada in which case they would consider TO2 as well, but then that sort of contradicts the whole point of TO2 which is the hefty expansion fee it would supposedly net the league. I'd guess it would be safe to assume TO2 would have to pony up an absurd relocation fee instead. For all the challenges Hartford faces, TO2 runs into a lot of red tape comparatively.

I just disagree that expansion should be focused on the Eastern conference. I agree that hartford would be a relocation destination for a EC team.

 

[tsanuri]

This thread is titled expansion/relocation. I believe Qc & Seattle will get expansion (Det or CBJ back West). If/when the Coyotes need to move Portland will be there and if/when an EC team needs to move (whomever it may be) Hartford would be my choice for relocation unless the NHL wants more than 8 teams in Canada in which case they would consider TO2 as well, but then that sort of contradicts the whole point of TO2 which is the hefty expansion fee it would supposedly net the league. I'd guess it would be safe to assume TO2 would have to pony up an absurd relocation fee instead. For all the challenges Hartford faces, TO2 runs into a lot of red tape comparatively.

There is almost no way that Det/Cbj would move back west. There is already around a 10 team block that would be against it. That is all those in the pac/mtn time zone and both those teams mentioned. I won't say it's impossible but darn near it.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

really, so henry samuelli is going to move the team he owns, out of the arena he has complete control over, after doing a very expensive renovation to Honda Center?

 

[gstommylee]

There is almost no way that Det/Cbj would move back west. There is already around a 10 team block that would be against it. That is all those in the pac/mtn time zone and both those teams mentioned. I won't say it's impossible but darn near it.

This is why i think Seattle and Portland are gonna get expansions.

Relocation is easier to deal with than expansion in regards to alignment issues.

 

[tsanuri]

This is why i think Seattle and Portland are gonna get expansions.

Relocation is easier to deal with than expansion in regards to alignment issues.

I think adding 2 teams in the pac time zone also adds problems. Think they really want one pac one cen and that opens up Huston which is top 10 already for tv markets. And top 5 for population.
But it's all really speculation on all of are parts, unless someone here is secretly on the BOG. And knows something that none of the rest of us do.

 

[Riptide]

I think adding 2 teams in the pac time zone also adds problems. Think they really want one pac one cen and that opens up Huston which is top 10 already for tv markets. And top 5 for population.

Could Houston be done without Les Alexandar? And didn't he take a bath ($ wise) recently?

TO2 could easily net a massive re-location fee (unless there's a rule somewhere in the NHL bylaws that restricts that). Same thing... instead of a 300-400m expansion fee... someone pays 130m for the team (most teams are likely in this range without buying the local arena), and 300m+ as the relocation fee. Sure it's steep... but you're guaranteeing success and boatloads of revenue from the GTA market.

As for speculation... of course it is.

 

[tsanuri]

Could Houston be done without Les Alexandar? And didn't he take a bath ($ wise) recently?

TO2 could easily net a massive re-location fee (unless there's a rule somewhere in the NHL bylaws that restricts that). Same thing... instead of a 300-400m expansion fee... someone pays 130m for the team (most teams are likely in this range without buying the local arena), and 300m+ as the relocation fee. Sure it's steep... but you're guaranteeing success and boatloads of revenue from the GTA market.

As for speculation... of course it is.

I have no idea as far as if there is an ownership group avail in Houston. I was just stating on what I figured the league would want to see in order to keep things really simple with expansion. And where the best place on paper looked for that.
I can't ague that GTA would be the best place on paper. But there is so many things going on with that. Starting with will the Leafs let another team in their market area. And ending with what team that is in the eastern time zone will have to move to the western conference. And I know that is not inclusive.

 

[gstommylee]

I think adding 2 teams in the pac time zone also adds problems. Think they really want one pac one cen and that opens up Huston which is top 10 already for tv markets. And top 5 for population.
But it's all really speculation on all of are parts, unless someone here is secretly on the BOG. And knows something that none of the rest of us do.

It doesn't create problems the NHL can place coyotes in the central division. I don't think Houston is an option at the moment when it does they can relocate the coyotes there if necessary. KC isn't interested in a main anchor for their arena. Vegas doesn't have an arena being built or an approved one. Milwaukee needs a new arena the only option for two more western conference teams is Seattle and Portland.

Portland came close to getting the coyotes that shows NHL wants teams in both of the major PNW cities Seattle and Portland.

 

[whlscowt]

Interesting discussion--really like it.

In regards to a western team... how far out of the realm of possibility would a Saskatchewan team be? I seem to recall a group looking into the idea a few years ago but that died down.

It's my belief that like with Winnipeg you'd sell out every night (Saskatoon's Credit Union Center can seat about 100 more seats than the MTS Center) just based on the passion of fans from that area (Riders fans in the CFL are nuts!) but corporate sponsorship and U.S. appeal might be low. That being said Saskatchewan is actually an up and coming oil market--and you're seeing massive industry and population growth in the major city centers. It's probably a lesser option than Seattle but I'd love to hear some of your opinions.

 

[gstommylee]

Interesting discussion--really like it.

In regards to a western team... how far out of the realm of possibility would a Saskatchewan team be? I seem to recall a group looking into the idea a few years ago but that died down.

It's my belief that like with Winnipeg you'd sell out every night (Saskatoon's Credit Union Center can seat about 100 more seats than the MTS Center) just based on the passion of fans from that area (Riders fans in the CFL are nuts!) but corporate sponsorship and U.S. appeal might be low. That being said Saskatchewan is actually an up and coming oil market--and you're seeing massive industry and population growth in the major city centers. It's probably a lesser option than Seattle but I'd love to hear some of your opinions.

I don't think Saskatoon would be ahead of Quebec or a possible TOR2