Post-Game Talk: Another blown 3 period lead

[GoAwayDanCleary]

"If we'd just do this one little thing, we'd be at the top of the standings" said every team ever.

Difference is not many of those teams are as good as this one...

 

[silkyjohnson50]

"If we'd just do this one little thing, we'd be at the top of the standings" said every team ever.

Yeah, tell that to Toronto fans.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Difference is not many of those teams are as good as this one...

We do play a mean 40 minutes of hockey.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

We do play a mean 40 minutes of hockey.

Just wait

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Repeatedly crumbling under pressure - even if we pull the OT win out - is not exactly the hallmark of a team who has it together. Let's just remember that our goal differential is a resounding zero.

 

[odin1981]

That's this board for you. Tatar and Nyquist are expected to score every game in order to be considered good players. Very few people understand that 30-goal scorers are not going to score goals in all 82 games.

Woah, woah, woah calm down with the facts man. This is HF boards we are talking about here. 30 goal scorers if consistent only pot 1 goal in every 3 games. But apparently to most there are Ovechkins and Stamkos's everywhere that pot 1 every 2 or 2 in every 5 around the league commonplace like nickels.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I'd imagine a larger sample of performance might be under evaluation than simple goalscoring in a general evaluation of a player's overall efficiency, but setting those aside for the moment...

To be fair, doesn't calling someone a "30 goal scorer" sort of implicitly require them to have actually scored 30 goals?

Further still, doesn't that term imply not only the initial accomplishment, but an expectation of frequent repetition?

Neither Tatar nor Nyquist have ever done it, neither are on a pace to do so this year, and neither are even in the top 25 in goals at their position, in the event that a general league-wide malaise in scoring were to be sited as a cause for the above lacks.

None of those events mean they suck, obviously, but they do sort of suggest that perhaps the fans perceptions of their status as forwards in the league could withstand some meager adjustments.

well, they are tied for 25th among forwards in goal production.

 

[Actual Thought*]

While that did make make me laugh at least, if he was even close to as incompetent as you thought he was we wouldn't have the record we do right now.

While it was intended to make you laugh I am not sure your assessment is entirely accurate. Goaltending has hidden a ton of weakness in the system and strategy of this team. They rank among the bottom 10 in most statistical categories and the PP is absolutely dreadful which is a hallmark of Blashill's tenure as an NHL assistant. Given this is the best roster they have had since Lidstrom retired these things do not reflect well on Blashill's performance as head coach. In 31 games they have coughed up a 3rd period lead 11 times. Inexcusable.

 

[SirloinUB]

Repeatedly crumbling under pressure - even if we pull the OT win out - is not exactly the hallmark of a team who has it together. Let's just remember that our goal differential is a resounding zero.

One could argue it takes a good team to be tied or winning the game after 60 minutes of play in 70% of games.

In Fact we have finished 22 games tied or winning after 60 minutes. Only 3 teams (Montreal, NYR, NYI) have accomplished this more. I'd say that IS a hallmark of a pretty good team.

 

[19 for president]

People freaking out about Dats and Zs goal totals is pretty funny to me. 5 years ago this team needed goal scorers. Now this team has Tats, nyquist, abby, Larkin as 20 goal guys. Now the Wings need playmakers, and Z/D are the only legit ones on the team. Maybe Richards if he improves.

Wings should be running:

Larkin/Z/Abby
Tats/Dats/Sheahan
Nyquist/Richards/Helm
Jurco/ Glenny/ whomever

Putting Dats with 2 non shooters is silly. Sheahan is a great guy down low in the cycle. Dats can carry the puck and Tats is the shooter.

This team is improving, slowly but surely. Richards, Green, and Dats are just starting to get their legs. The guys are all starting to get comfy in the new system. The only thing I blame Blash for is the PP. Too much talent to be that bad.

 

[obey86]

I must be the only one who think Richards has been pretty good lately.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I must be the only one who think Richards has been pretty good lately.

3 points in the last 5 games. He is starting to get his legs under him. I like the signing.

 

[Actual Thought*]

One could argue it takes a good team to be tied or winning the game after 60 minutes of play in 70% of games.

In Fact we have finished 22 games tied or winning after 60 minutes. Only 3 teams (Montreal, NYR, NYI) have accomplished this more. I'd say that IS a hallmark of a pretty good team.

I would agree but goaltending has been great and that skews how good they actually are.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'd imagine a larger sample of performance might be under evaluation than simple goalscoring in a general evaluation of a player's overall efficiency, but setting those aside for the moment...

To be fair, doesn't calling someone a "30 goal scorer" sort of implicitly require them to have actually scored 30 goals?

Further still, doesn't that term imply not only the initial accomplishment, but an expectation of frequent repetition?

Neither Tatar nor Nyquist have ever done it, neither are on a pace to do so this year, and neither are even in the top 25 in goals at their position, in the event that a general league-wide malaise in scoring were to be sited as a cause for the above lacks.

None of those events mean they suck, obviously, but they do sort of suggest that perhaps the fans perceptions of their status as forwards in the league could withstand some meager adjustments.

"27-29 goal scorers" just doesn't have the same ring to it. That's what they've done, that's what they're on pace to do.

Tatar is top 15 among LW in goals, Nyquist is top 10 among RWs in goals. There are exactly 15 wingers total with more goals than the two of them this season, and exactly 24 forwards total. And both were top 30 among forwards in goals last season.

We're talking about two players that are putting up numbers that indicate they're among the best wingers in the NHL. ESPECIALLY if you take their TOI into account, since they're not really playing top 6 minutes. Tatar for example is 16th in the league in G/60 (forwards with more than 20GP). Almost all players ahead of him in that category are considered elite players, or are having crazy years (Lindberg, Hoffman etc).

I would agree but goaltending has been great and that skews how good they actually are.

Our goaltending has been mediocre lately. Mrazeks has been under .900 in 3 of his last 6 starts, Howard under .900 in 3 of his last 7.

 

[InjuredChoker]

While it was intended to make you laugh I am not sure your assessment is entirely accurate. Goaltending has hidden a ton of weakness in the system and strategy of this team. They rank among the bottom 10 in most statistical categories and the PP is absolutely dreadful which is a hallmark of Blashill's tenure as an NHL assistant. Given this is the best roster they have had since Lidstrom retired these things do not reflect well on Blashill's performance as head coach. In 31 games they have coughed up a 3rd period lead 11 times. Inexcusable.

since datsyuk returned, it's the opposite. top 10 in goal and shot differential.

and it's not goaltending either as it has been below average since datsyuk came back.

 

[Actual Thought*]

since datsyuk returned, it's the opposite. top 10 in goal and shot differential.

and it's not goaltending either as it has been below average since datsyuk came back.

So 16 games out of 31 they have been "okay" and that is based on 1 player. In that time they have coughed up a bunch of 3 period leads. In the last 5 or so they haven't looked as good as the previous 10 or so. I think they should be much, much better than they have been overall. They haven't played many 60 minute games yet this season. Maybe 3 or so? Hopefully they will improve as the season wears on.

Our goaltending has been mediocre lately. Mrazeks has been under .900 in 3 of his last 6 starts, Howard under .900 in 3 of his last 7.

Fair enough but like Ozzy said the other night goaltending has gotten them around 8 points they shouldn't have gotten. That puts them down with the worst teams in the conference.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

You are aware goaltenders are a part of the team and are paid a salary, right?

 

[Bench]

You are aware goaltenders are a part of the team and are paid a salary, right?

It's always pretty humorous that if a forward like Ovechkin goes wild and scores a hat trick, well then the consensus becomes that team was better. But if Carey Price shuts down scoring, his team doesn't deserve the win.

Preventing goals and scoring goals are both equally important. Goaltending has traditionally been a position powerhouse teams build around during my lifetime and it's easy to find examples like Roy, Brodeur, and Belfour. During that era when the Avalanche, Devils, Stars, and Wings gobbled up all the points and playoff wins, the Wings were the marked exception to the rule regarding elite goaltending. Of course, that didn't stop Detroit from desperately playing musical chairs trying to upgrade the position with mixed results (CuJo, Hasek).

I think if you want to create an NHL team that is seriously going to compete for more than 5 years, you need to shore up elite goaltending you can count on every season. To somehow call this a fault of a roster, that they lean on elite goaltending, is ignoring years of hockey history where Hall of Fame goalies like Roy and Brodeur made their mark by keeping teams afloat in games their roster had no business winning.

And in a league here parity is on the rise, having a guy like that is going to become even more important.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's always pretty humorous that if a forward like Ovechkin goes wild and scores a hat trick, well then the consensus becomes that team was better. But if Carey Price shuts down scoring, his team doesn't deserve the win.

Especially hilarious since there has been complaining among Wings fans for years and years about how "we don't have a goaltender that can steal games". Now that we do, it's a bad thing. Winning when we don't outplay the other team is supposedly not a deserved win since the goalie was so important.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Team loses in regulation for the first time in 13 (thirteen) games, and we suddenly have a 7 page PGT so everyone can ***** and moan about how terrible the team is.

Ahhh, HFBoards

 

[Dotter]

Team loses in regulation for the first time in 13 (thirteen) games, and we suddenly have a 7 page PGT so everyone can ***** and moan about how terrible the team is.

Ahhh, HFBoards

Only a "certain" group of people come out and post after a loss. When the team wins, they are nowhere to be found.

 

[ap3x]

So, you're just allowed to discuss - and necessarily criticize - it, if you aren't coming into the game with a 13 games pts streak? Doesn't it bother you
guys to blow just another 3rd period lead at home? Standing here, being critical of some aspects doesn't mean that one isn't grateful for the points before.
It's more of a criticism on making less out of our opportunities than we're capable of.

 

[Bench]

So, you're just allowed to discuss - and necessarily criticize - it, if you aren't coming into the game with a 13 games pts streak? Doesn't it bother you
guys to blow just another 3rd period lead at home? Standing here, being critical of some aspects doesn't mean that one isn't grateful for the points before.
It's more of a criticism on making less out of our opportunities than we're capable of.

We value all viewpoints here. Basically because one viewpoint would be terribly boring.

But people need to remember this is supposed to be about hockey, not people. It seems from my experience that a handful of people quickly become all of "HF Boards".

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I laugh when people complain about our forwards.

The whole game starts from your own zone. And the first pass from the DEFENDER.

Lets see. who can do it. Danny D, Green and Kronner. Smith IF he is on a great game.

Lets see who cant. 4 million man Ericsson. Smith most of the time. Kindl. And Marchenko isn't that good at it. And Also Quincey.

Don't know why Ouellet isnt up here. He isnt that great with ofence, But he sure is better in his own zone then Smith,Kindl and more

 

[Actual Thought*]

It's always pretty humorous that if a forward like Ovechkin goes wild and scores a hat trick, well then the consensus becomes that team was better. But if Carey Price shuts down scoring, his team doesn't deserve the win.

Preventing goals and scoring goals are both equally important. Goaltending has traditionally been a position powerhouse teams build around during my lifetime and it's easy to find examples like Roy, Brodeur, and Belfour. During that era when the Avalanche, Devils, Stars, and Wings gobbled up all the points and playoff wins, the Wings were the marked exception to the rule regarding elite goaltending. Of course, that didn't stop Detroit from desperately playing musical chairs trying to upgrade the position with mixed results (CuJo, Hasek).

I think if you want to create an NHL team that is seriously going to compete for more than 5 years, you need to shore up elite goaltending you can count on every season. To somehow call this a fault of a roster, that they lean on elite goaltending, is ignoring years of hockey history where Hall of Fame goalies like Roy and Brodeur made their mark by keeping teams afloat in games their roster had no business winning.

And in a league here parity is on the rise, having a guy like that is going to become even more important.

That's a ridiculous comparison. Roy and Brodeur weren't carrying their teams. Both played on extremely deep teams for the bulk of their careers. Of course you need good goaltending but it isn't as if the Devils were getting out shot 20-40 every night and winning because of Brodeur. That's absurd. Same goes for the Avs.
The Wings this year have leaned way to hard on their goalies and stolen points even when the rest of the team got soundly outplayed. There is absolutely no comparison to the Devils or Avs of the 90s. The Hasek Sabres would be a better comparison and they never won a cup.