Post-Game Talk: Another blown 3 period lead

[Pavels Dog]

Larkin looks way better with Z IMO, and the two should stay together. Tatar and Nyquist bring an element of speed. Tatar has shown great chemistry with Datsyuk in the past.

Sheahan has produced offensively like a 4th liner and should be deployed as such. Doesn't deserve to be a top 9 center right now.

I like Tatar with Datsyuk, but add Nyquist and you get a line with a ton of skill but no grit, physicality or net-front play. May look nice on paper but in reality those lines rarely work like you hope. Benn and Seguin have Nicushkin, Kane and Panarin have Anismov, Duchene and McKinnon have Landeskog etc.

And though Tats and Gus have solid speed they are not Helm/AA/Larkin fast. I wouldn't be against trying that line to see if we strike some kind of gold, but Datsyuk seems to like playing with at least one guy that will forecheck hard and do the dirty work in the corners and in front of the net.

 

[Frk It]

I like Tatar with Datsyuk, but add Nyquist and you get a line with a ton of skill but no grit, physicality or net-front play. May look nice on paper but in reality those lines rarely work like you hope. Benn and Seguin have Nicushkin, Kane and Panarin have Anismov, Duchene and McKinnon have Landeskog etc.

And though Tats and Gus have solid speed they are not Helm/AA/Larkin fast. I wouldn't be against trying that line to see if we strike some kind of gold, but Datsyuk seems to like playing with at least one guy that will forecheck hard and do the dirty work in the corners and in front of the net.

I think there is enough skill present to just play a high possession level, similar to the Fil-Z-Huds line. I'd like to see more skill in our top 6, and I'd like to see Datsyuk play with better finishers because he just creates a ton of chances for whoever he plays with.

I wouldn't be opposed to Abby with Dats and Z, and Larkin with Tatar and Nyquist, it's just Larkin is so brutal in the faceoff circle. I understand Datsyuk says he likes to play with heavy players, just like Crosby does, but I think that stuff has always been overstated.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

That is hilarious.

You know what's hilarious? Arguing that Blashill isn't getting enough out of this team after their longest point streak in half a decade.

You know what's also funny? Laughing at a team's offense when they have scored at a 3.15 GPG clip over that same stretch. Or the fact they outshot their opponents on average 31-28... one of the best disparities in the league over that stretch. Mind you this is all with an abysmal PP.

Got lucky you say? Remember that three game stretch against WSH, NSH, MTL just last week? Well they are all top-ten in corsi% and we averaged over 53% against them combined.

So laugh all you want and keep making biased, agenda-driven comments. Your boy Babs is gone and many of us here are really enjoying the new philosophies this scrub, Blashill, is bringing to this team.

Next time you want to bash Blashill, which I'm sure is pretty soon here, just don't forget that this is a parity driven league where wins, shots, and goals don't come easy... three things this team has done consistently for weeks now.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Zetterberg's days as an elite goalscorer are gone.

Datsyuk's may be.

The team has one legit goalscorer on the blueline. Green. Who only has 1 goal.

Nyquist and Tatar are not, are not, elite, consistent goalscorers.

That's how you end up with a come and go offense that mostly goes.

So, what Detroit has to count on is getting offensive production all the way up and down the roster every night... which happens pretty much nowhere in the NHL all that consistently and wasn't really even happening in Detroit back in the days when their offense was lauded as both potent and deep.

I mean, we can point and whine about Jurco wasting a PS or Helm being on the ice at a critical offensive moment, but Helm and Jurco had been guys actually generating offensive chances throughout the game. Yes, they whiffed on all of them, but is that worse than not generating the chance in the first place?

At the end of the day, if Detroit is going to spend something in the neighboorhood of 20 million bucks on three guys and get a combined 8 goals out of them nearly 40% of the way through the season... as far as having any kind of dangerous offense goes, that's pretty much that.

Either Datsyuk, Z and Green will warm up and Detroit will get tough to play defensively or they won't. There aren't any line changes to be made out there that can cover for big money offensive talents not getting it done. Pulling a Joe Thornton like Z is, or a Larionov like Datsyuk is, or a Christian Ehrhoff circa 2014 like Green is are just unrecoverable events.

Those guys are still varying degrees of effective at the NHL level, but what they make versus what they are doing out there is just killing the team.

 

[Frk It]

Sure they earned them, but I don't see giving up leads late in the third and losing in OT as a positive.

I bring up the comparison with the Leafs because I see a big difference between Babcock and Blashill. Everyone rags on AT but Blashhill hasn't exactly done wonders for this team, where Babcock has the Leafs staying in games and playing hard, despite being out-skilled by basically every team in the league and compared to the amazing Wings during the last ten games, have as many wins.

Keep looking at 'the streak' as a positive if you'd like. I do not when they have lost almost as many games as they have won.

Babcock left us. He wanted to go to a new opportunity. You can cry over your exgirlfriend that dumped you and feel bad, but eventually you gotta get over that ****.

 

[Frk It]

Zetterberg's days as an elite goalscorer are gone.

Datsyuk's may be.

The team has one legit goalscorer on the blueline. Green. Who only has 1 goal.

Nyquist and Tatar are not, are not, elite, consistent goalscorers.

That's how you end up with a come and go offense that mostly goes.

So, what Detroit has to count on is getting offensive production all the way up and down the roster every night... which happens pretty much nowhere in the NHL all that consistently and wasn't really even happening in Detroit back in the days when their offense was lauded as both potent and deep.

I mean, we can point and whine about Jurco wasting a PS or Helm being on the ice at a critical offensive moment, but Helm and Jurco had been guys actually generating offensive chances throughout the game. Yes, they whiffed on all of them, but is that worse than not generating the chance in the first place?

At the end of the day, if Detroit is going to spend something in the neighboorhood of 20 million bucks on three guys and get a combined 8 goals out of them nearly 40% of the way through the season... as far as having any kind of dangerous offense goes, that's pretty much that.

Either Datsyuk, Z and Green will warm up and Detroit will get tough to play defensively or they won't. There aren't any line changes to be made out there that can cover for big money offensive talents not getting it done. Pulling a Joe Thornton like Z is, or a Larionov like Datsyuk is, or a Christian Ehrhoff circa 2014 like Green is are just unrecoverable events.

Those guys are still varying degrees of effective at the NHL level, but what they make versus what they are doing out there is just killing the team.

Zetterberg's days as an elite goalscorer were done literally years ago. That's pretty obvious at this point, and has been for some time. I mean he hasn't cracked 20 goals since 2012, and 25 goals since 2009.

His team leading 19 assists aren't worthless though. I agree that Datsyuk and Green have to pick it up offensively, for sure.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Zetterberg's days as an elite goalscorer are gone.

Datsyuk's may be.

The team has one legit goalscorer on the blueline. Green. Who only has 1 goal.

Nyquist and Tatar are not, are not, elite, consistent goalscorers.

That's how you end up with a come and go offense that mostly goes.

So, what Detroit has to count on is getting offensive production all the way up and down the roster every night... which happens pretty much nowhere in the NHL all that consistently and wasn't really even happening in Detroit back in the days when their offense was lauded as both potent and deep.

I mean, we can point and whine about Jurco wasting a PS or Helm being on the ice at a critical offensive moment, but Helm and Jurco had been guys actually generating offensive chances throughout the game. Yes, they whiffed on all of them, but is that worse than not generating the chance in the first place?

At the end of the day, if Detroit is going to spend something in the neighboorhood of 20 million bucks on three guys and get a combined 8 goals out of them nearly 40% of the way through the season... as far as having any kind of dangerous offense goes, that's pretty much that.

Either Datsyuk, Z and Green will warm up and Detroit will get tough to play defensively or they won't. There aren't any line changes to be made out there that can cover for big money offensive talents not getting it done. Pulling a Joe Thornton like Z is, or a Larionov like Datsyuk is, or a Christian Ehrhoff circa 2014 like Green is are just unrecoverable events.

Those guys are still varying degrees of effective at the NHL level, but what they make versus what they are doing out there is just killing the team.

In other words, my prediction of the Wings not being able to replace their aging stars with the younger players - who simply aren't at that level quality-wise - has come true. This whole re-tool on the fly thing or whatever Holland envisioned has turned the Wings into an underwhelming middle of the pack team.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

In other words, my prediction of the Wings not being able to replace their aging stars with the younger players - who simply aren't at that level quality-wise - has come true. This whole re-tool on the fly thing or whatever Holland envisioned has turned the Wings into an underwhelming middle of the pack team.

Wow, you really went out on a limb with that prediction.

 

[Pavels Dog]

In other words, my prediction of the Wings not being able to replace their aging stars with the younger players - who simply aren't at that level quality-wise - has come true. This whole re-tool on the fly thing or whatever Holland envisioned has turned the Wings into an underwhelming middle of the pack team.

Why do we have to get these posts every time we lose a game? Yeah we're not in the absolute top-tier in the league, but we are in the top 10 in the league right not (tied for 9th in P%) which is pretty good.

Every loss it's the same. Like THIS was the loss that finally proved it once and for all, the re-tool has failed.

 

[ap3x]

WTF is that Gus? Too happy for your millions?

Seriously? He's got one off-game and you've got nothing else to do than talking **** like that? Tats and him deserve to be criticized for last night.
And you aren't even totally wrong about your main point. But that last sentence is just plain stupid.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Seriously? He's got one off-game and you've got nothing else to do than talking **** like that?

That's this board for you. Tatar and Nyquist are expected to score every game in order to be considered good players. Very few people understand that 30-goal scorers are not going to score goals in all 82 games.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

That's this board for you. Tatar and Nyquist are expected to score every game in order to be considered good players. Very few people understand that 30-goal scorers are not going to score goals in all 82 games.

The expectations around here blow my mind sometimes.

 

[HockeyinHD]

In other words, my prediction of the Wings not being able to replace their aging stars with the younger players - who simply aren't at that level quality-wise - has come true.

Were there actually people making the case that Tatar, Nyquist, Kronwall, Dekeyser, Mrazek et al were going to be as good as Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Hasek?

Your 'prediction' doesn't seem to be one that carried very long odds, to be fair. I mean, I can predict that team x will not win the Cup in a given year and be right around 95% of the time. I wouldn't say that kind of accuracy makes me a candidate for 'Nostradamus of the Year.'

This whole re-tool on the fly thing or whatever Holland envisioned has turned the Wings into an underwhelming middle of the pack team.

As opposed to... all the other really impressive, overwhelming, consistently front of the pack teams in the NHL?

The top 5 in each conference as of today (10 teams total) as compared to the end of 2013-14 has exactly 2 teams in common in the East (Montreal, Rangers) and 2 in the West (St. Louis and Chicago).

4 of 10. The other 6 (Boston, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Anaheim, Colorado, SJ) are middling teams at best (seeds 7, 9 and 10 in the East) or are actual garbage fires (seeds 11, 12 and 14 out West).

This isn't comparing 3 years ago, or 5 years ago, or 10 years ago. We're talking about the standings literally 20 months ago.

It's certainly true that this current iteration of the Wings is not sufficiently exciting to cause people to rush about with sparklers stuffed in their bums, but neither is it sufficiently calamitous to send people streaming onto lines along the Ambassador bridge to hurl themselves into the chill embrace of the Detroit River.

 

[Frk It]

Tatar and Nyquist have the same amount of goals as Stamkos at a fraction of the price and people are tweaking. LMFAO.

Both on pace for 29 goals. Exactly what they are. High 20s or low 30s goal scorers.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

"Sparklers stuffed in their bums."

Quote of the day from HiHD.

 

[joe89]

Incredible how much outrage one loss can create, where we were the better team no less. It wasn't a total steal, but we didn't get what we deserved. Or well, we kinda did for not scoring a 2nd goal, but not game-wise.

Larkin looks way better with Z IMO, and the two should stay together. Tatar and Nyquist bring an element of speed. Tatar has shown great chemistry with Datsyuk in the past.

Sheahan has produced offensively like a 4th liner and should be deployed as such. Doesn't deserve to be a top 9 center right now.

I agree they should stay together, they think the game the same way. And I think Larkin is learning a truckload as they go along.

I'm very disappointed with Sheahan this season. Tatar and Nyquist have not been an issue.

Helm is playing great as of late, but I'm still mostly left frustrated by his lack of finish.

Team success still hinges very much on the production of Zetterberg and Datsyuk, and they aren't quite getting it done right now. It doesn't have to be much more complicated than that. We need their multi-point games from time to time to win hockey games.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Babcock left us. He wanted to go to a new opportunity. You can cry over your exgirlfriend that dumped you and feel bad, but eventually you gotta get over that ****.

That doesn't mean you have to marry the first ugly ***** at the bar who makes eye contact.

 

[HockeyinHD]

That's this board for you. Tatar and Nyquist are expected to score every game in order to be considered good players. Very few people understand that 30-goal scorers are not going to score goals in all 82 games.

I'd imagine a larger sample of performance might be under evaluation than simple goalscoring in a general evaluation of a player's overall efficiency, but setting those aside for the moment...

To be fair, doesn't calling someone a "30 goal scorer" sort of implicitly require them to have actually scored 30 goals?

Further still, doesn't that term imply not only the initial accomplishment, but an expectation of frequent repetition?

Neither Tatar nor Nyquist have ever done it, neither are on a pace to do so this year, and neither are even in the top 25 in goals at their position, in the event that a general league-wide malaise in scoring were to be sited as a cause for the above lacks.

None of those events mean they suck, obviously, but they do sort of suggest that perhaps the fans perceptions of their status as forwards in the league could withstand some meager adjustments.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That doesn't mean you have to marry the first ugly ***** at the bar who makes eye contact.

Well that's not what happened, but okay.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

People who think the sky is falling every time we lose are being dramatic.

People who think our play hasn't been disappointing - even on the point streak - are in denial.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That's this board for you. Tatar and Nyquist are expected to score every game in order to be considered good players. Very few people understand that 30-goal scorers are not going to score goals in all 82 games.

That's a great way to put it. It's easy to get caught up in the loss and not do the math on that one when a player goes a few games without scoring.


I thought the game last night was pretty evenly matched, minus the Wings collapse for those 5 or so minutes in the third. If not for goal saving plays by Smith, Datsyuk and Mrazek during that stretch it could've been 4-1 Sabres.

 

[Actual Thought*]

You know what's hilarious? Arguing that Blashill isn't getting enough out of this team after their longest point streak in half a decade.

You know what's also funny? Laughing at a team's offense when they have scored at a 3.15 GPG clip over that same stretch. Or the fact they outshot their opponents on average 31-28... one of the best disparities in the league over that stretch. Mind you this is all with an abysmal PP.

Got lucky you say? Remember that three game stretch against WSH, NSH, MTL just last week? Well they are all top-ten in corsi% and we averaged over 53% against them combined.

So laugh all you want and keep making biased, agenda-driven comments. Your boy Babs is gone and many of us here are really enjoying the new philosophies this scrub, Blashill, is bringing to this team.

Next time you want to bash Blashill, which I'm sure is pretty soon here, just don't forget that this is a parity driven league where wins, shots, and goals don't come easy... three things this team has done consistently for weeks now.

The mere fact that it is a parity league is why the coach needs to maximize the team's performance. I didn't rip Blashill, I said he needs to be better and he does. The team was playing better at the beginning of the streak than at the end. They need to improve. I don't see that as being too controversial. They consistently drop leads. Fix it.

 

[Frk It]

That doesn't mean you have to marry the first ugly ***** at the bar who makes eye contact.

While that did make make me laugh at least, if he was even close to as incompetent as you thought he was we wouldn't have the record we do right now.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

People who think the sky is falling every time we lose are being dramatic.

People who think our play hasn't been disappointing - even on the point streak - are in denial.

The losses have been disappointing but our play has been fantastic compared to where we were before the streak began. It's not really being in denial... more like realizing we have some tweaks we need to make and just find a way to finish these teams off. I have lots of confidence in this team, more than I have had in a while.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

The losses have been disappointing but our play has been fantastic compared to where we were before the streak began. It's not really being in denial... more like realizing we have some tweaks we need to make and just find a way to finish these teams off. I have lots of confidence in this team, more than I have had in a while.

"If we'd just do this one little thing, we'd be at the top of the standings" said every team ever.