Confirmed with Link: Andy Greene for Quenneville and 2021 2nd round pick

[xECK29x]

 

[notDatsyuk]

That's not my point.

My point is...Since Greene had control over his own fate and basically was deciding between the Isles or NJ, that means the Isles weren't bidding against any other team in terms of trade compensation to NJ.

When you can offer a player to all 30 other NHL teams and create a bidding war that's when the price of a player goes up. However when only 1 team wants him or can have him then the price should technically remain lower than if there was a bidding war.

And it seems like in this case, taking everything into account, a 2nd seems a tad high for a 37 year old pending UFA who no other teams were bidding on.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. How do you know that there weren't six teams interested in him, and he agreed to four of them, and we offered the best package?

 

[PK Cronin]

New Jersey could've always just not traded him if they didn't get the ask.

 

[periferal]

Or is that just the price of doing business to patch a short term, but gaping hole?

Well it's obvious that's the price to patch a short-term hole. That is confirmed. So again we go back to...

Was it worth giving up a good asset to still not be good enough to win the Cup in 2020 and for a player who most likely won't be on your team next year?

I like Greene, but for me trade deadlines should be used by already Cup contending teams making their lineups even better - Not for teams trying to patch a leaking boat.

 

[Jester9881]

Thanks for reminding me why I don't post here anymore..... they sorely needed someone to step in and take the minutes vacated by Pelech. This is what they got....



Solid job by Lou

 

[MJF]

Well it's obvious that's the price to patch a short-term hole. That is confirmed. So again we go back to...

Was it worth giving up a good asset to still not be good enough to win the Cup in 2020 and for a player who most likely won't be on your team next year?

I like Greene, but for me trade deadlines should be used by already Cup contending teams making their lineups even better - Not for teams trying to patch a leaking boat.

You always compete right to the end. You only blow it all up when you're at a break point about resigning your UFAs. We're already past that so we will continue to fix on the fly.

 

[doublechili]

So say Lou didn't get Greene or some other defenseman before the TDL, and we missed the playoffs entirely, due in large part to the defense. Why do I suspect most of the people complaining about this trade would then be complaining that Lou didn't make a similar trade and we wasted a season because Pelech got hurt and Lou did nothing to patch the hole?

Besides, I think people are gnashing their teeth way too much over a 2021 2nd round pick. It's not like that can't be replaced in the next 16 months....

Making it a 2021 pick was a positive for us and a negative for NJ, as was them taking back the Quenneville contract.

 

[periferal]

You always compete right to the end. You only blow it all up when you're at a break point about resigning your UFAs. We're already past that so we will continue to fix on the fly.

I respect that sentiment. I will also add that sometimes you blow it up when your core group isn't getting it done, like the Devils saw this season or the Wild who haven't been getting it done for several.

I'm just saying that I would rather we "compete" by taking that 2nd and another asset like Wahlstrom and trade a player with term so he's still here when this roster is good enough to be a true Cup contender. We can debate the value of a future 2nd rounder until we're blue, but clearly it's an asset that has value. And for me the Isles just took that 2nd rounder and threw it in a wishing well.

 

[MJF]

I respect that sentiment. I will also add that sometimes you blow it up when your core group isn't getting it done, like the Devils saw this season or the Wild who haven't been getting it done for several.

I'm just saying that I would rather we "compete" by taking that 2nd and another asset like Wahlstrom and trade a player with term so he's still here when this roster is good enough to be a true Cup contender. We can debate the value of a future 2nd rounder until we're blue, but clearly it's an asset that has value. And for me the Isles just took that 2nd rounder and threw it in a wishing well.

I take a less popular viewpoint. I still believe if we clean up our defensive problems and stop chasing the game in our own end, that will lead to increased offense and a less tired forward corps. Greene was a cheaper fix than finding more offense at TDL time.

 

[JKP]

I respect that sentiment. I will also add that sometimes you blow it up when your core group isn't getting it done, like the Devils saw this season or the Wild who haven't been getting it done for several.

I'm just saying that I would rather we "compete" by taking that 2nd and another asset like Wahlstrom and trade a player with term so he's still here when this roster is good enough to be a true Cup contender. We can debate the value of a future 2nd rounder until we're blue, but clearly it's an asset that has value. And for me the Isles just took that 2nd rounder and threw it in a wishing well.

What do you think a 2021 2nd and Wahlstrom gets you right now?

For example, who on the current Isles roster would you trade for a Wahlstrom type and a 2nd?

I don’t think it buys you very much. The kind of players I think you want cost a lot more, and we don’t have a lot to trade unless you want to see Dobson play 15 yrs in another jersey.

 

[MJF]

So say Lou didn't get Greene or some other defenseman before the TDL, and we missed the playoffs entirely due in large part to the defense. Why do I suspect most of the people complaining about this trade would then be complaining that Lou didn't make a similar trade and we wasted a season because Pelech got hurt and Lou did nothing to patch the hole?

THIS

Andy Greene was available yesterday. Lou has to fix 3 holes-a veteran defenseman, a 3rd center, and an offensive threat. He patched the hole with the player who hit the market. It was a cheap fix. Lou wouldn't be doing his job if he turned up his nose at what wasn't an exorbitant price. We still have all of our picks in this year's draft and the #1 for 2021 if the sniper we need hits the market. That player will require multiple picks I assure you.

 

[CREW99AW]

A late second isn’t getting you a young player with term. Coleman is 28 with “term” (one year after this one) and got a 1st and Nolan Foote (who was a late 1st rounder).

Coleman has almost 20 goals, making less then $2m this season and next season.
TB is a legitimate SC contender with a strong prospect pool. TB will be facing a cap crunch next season. Coleman being under a cheap contract for next season was likely a major plus for TB.

Huge difference between TB"s situation and the isles.

 

[CREW99AW]

Quenneville is a nothing prospect and we don’t know who LA would be asking for in return for Martinez. Could have been Bellows for all we know. Keep in mind the 2nd rounder is a 2021 pick as opposed to a 2020 pick.

Clearly they prefer Greene for the price or else Martinez would be an Islander. Greene’s deployment is more similar to Pelech’s and he probably re-signs as a depth D at a cheaper price for next season and helps the Islanders young defensemen.

You can hope he signs cheaply for next season. Right now he is a pending ufa,who likely will be trying to land the security of a 2-3 yr deal.

 

[CREW99AW]

Uncle Junior: "I want to f**k Angie Dickinson, let's see who get gets lucky first"

A likely late 2nd rounder in 2021 is just not a high enough pick to excite teams. It's certainly not Foote and a 1st like Tampa sent them.

What younger player with term in the NHL do you think Quenneville and a 2021 2nd is bringing you? Name one you would target with that package. To quote another actor (Duvall in Days of Thunder): "What kind of driver are you going to find after the season's started? Some old boy who's washed up, or wasn't worth a s**t to begin with.".

I expected the isles to move their 2020 2nd + Aho,who after three straight AHL seasons has been named to the all Star game three straight seasons.
That package would have been more enticing then a 2021 1st & David Q.

 

[steveat]

Greene is NOT going to win us the cup, but he will give us a great opportunity to make it into the 1st...and possibly the second round.

This means MORE to Malkin than it does to us because that means his investment is growing. This is a business afterall.

 

[CupHolders]

By the way how would most value a 2021, 2nd pick vs a 2020, 3rd round pick?

Also would more be pleased with this deal if it was say... 2020 3rd, 5th and Quennville?

 

[CupHolders]

Greene is NOT going to win us the cup, but he will give us a great opportunity to make it into the 1st...and possibly the second round.

This means MORE to Malkin than it does to us because that means his investment is growing. This is a business afterall.

Although as a fan, it means that these players are more experienced in playoff hockey. Not that you’re saying otherwise, but it still means something to fans too.

 

[duster19]

Coleman has almost 20 goals, making less then $2m this season and next season.
TB is a legitimate SC contender with a strong prospect pool. TB will be facing a cap crunch next season. Coleman being under a cheap contract for next season was likely a major plus for TB.

Huge difference between TB"s situation and the isles.

UFAs will sign in TB for a reasonable price as well. We have to overpay anyone to come here. And it’s normally guys who are not in demand.

 

[ScottyK]

Def will have a vested interest in you guys the rest of the way, treat him well ( we know Lou will ) and best of luck the rest of the way

 

[Beacon Isles]

To put things in perspective, Jayce Hawryluk, who got waived by Florida, was a former high second round pick. I think I read something like only ~35% of 2nd round picks ever play more than 200 games in the NHL.

The Isles gave up a lottery ticket, that should amount to a low 2nd in 2021, and a 5'8" non-prospect.

 

[Chardo]

I respect that sentiment. I will also add that sometimes you blow it up when your core group isn't getting it done, like the Devils saw this season or the Wild who haven't been getting it done for several.

I'm just saying that I would rather we "compete" by taking that 2nd and another asset like Wahlstrom and trade a player with term so he's still here when this roster is good enough to be a true Cup contender. We can debate the value of a future 2nd rounder until we're blue, but clearly it's an asset that has value. And for me the Isles just took that 2nd rounder and threw it in a wishing well.

And how often is that stud player you envision, with term, ever made available for trade?

I don't think trading a 2nd precludes acquiring that difference maker if one should be available. Meanwhile, there is value in filling immediate holes on a team with deep playoff aspirations.

 

[notDatsyuk]

New Jersey could've always just not traded him if they didn't get the ask.

Quite true, so they must have thought the package was reasonable.

 

[nyisleslover]

I think it's easy to get caught up in the idea that it takes a superstar to win in sports. That might be true in the NBA, but it's less true in the NFL, MLB and the NHL. It takes a team to win. Andy Greene is the epitome of one of those "team players" that you need if you're going to win in a team sport.

So how does his acquisition push the needle? It pushes it from a team struggling to hold onto the playoffs, to a team that now likely be able to hold on and get in. We need improvements that have been discussed ad nauseam in a 3C and, preferably a top six wing to probably push the needle to a Cup Contender. This acquisition is a good sign though IMO.

I don't think that the team (I'm really talking about upper management in this case) is okay with just making the playoffs. I could be wrong on that account... and yet, as others have mentioned, I think this is indicative of other moves that will be coming to try and make a legitimate playoff push.

It's convenient for fans to look at a move for that move alone. Any chess player knows, you're looking 2 or 3 moves ahead. If Lou is playing chess here, which I believe he is, then there is a move or two still coming before the deadline which may bring some clarity and sharpness to the somewhat hazy optics around this move right now.

 

[buud]

missed the last few days because of health issues, so playing catch up. excuse me if i seem a bit out of touch.

Greene is a warrior.

no, no the kind that comes zooming in on a winged chariot, slicing legions to smithereens with a single swipe of a mighty sword. but the kind that mostly goes unheralded, stays calm, quietly disappears into the shadows as the OT goalscorer is enshrined in the spotlight.

i felt that we needed a LHD with experience, and i'm pretty happy with what we got. 2nd is a tad high, but a 2022 is a tad less in value, than a 2021. we can not/should not, be relying on Dobson to handle big minutes, in high pressure situations. we don't want to be destroying the kid.

if we can extend Greene on the cheap, we can trade Leddy in the off season. seems like Toews can fill Leddy's spot adequately, and we save a few bucks.

yes, i want to see some more fire power on this team, but at a reasonable cost. looks 'perty 'n all', but defense wins championships.

and it ain't over yet. some of you guys should at least be happy that ol' Lou is awake...

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No complaints on Greene's play. 19:46 TOI, pots his first assist on a great pass shot for the tip. +1. My only complaint is the team didn't win.