Confirmed with Link: Andy Greene for Quenneville and 2021 2nd round pick

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

That is fine about Martinez, but Quenneville is not close to a B prospect.

You want the Islanders to trade a 2nd round pick (potentially this season) and a true B level prospect such as Aho for a 32 year old defenseman with 2 years left at $4 million each season against the cap? That severely hinders this teams ability to make any meaningful moves solely for the sake of adding a player with term.

Trading for a player because they have term is not always the smarter option. This team does not need a $4 million dollar cap hit on defense when they really only need an option for this season.

it is only one year left at 4 million, but your point is valid

 

[periferal]

Isles second round pick 2000-2015, above 100 NHL games Blake Comeau,Travis Hamonic,Scott Mayfield and Jesse Joensuu below Dimitri Chernyk,Yevgeni Tunik,Jeremy COLLITON, Dustin Kohn,Corey Trivino,Aaron Ness,Mikko Koskinen,Johan Sundström and Ville Pokka.

1. Just because the Isles didn't know how to draft doesn't mean there isn't real talent there to be had.
2. I have no problem trading any draft pick...I'd just like it to be as part of a deal for a guy who's under 30, has a few years left on his deal, and can score goals.

 

[xIsle]

2nd+ b prospect is what they spent.

And I would rather have seen Lou add to that if it meant getting a younger player with term.
Not impressed that Lou has shown he can overpay.

It amazes me that someone like you, who seems to be interested in draft picks and our prospects, can call Quenneville a "B" prospect! Quenneville is far from being a "B" prospect! Maybe a "C" or even a "D"... In any case, Quenneville's chances of becoming a regular player in the NHL are rather slim...

 

[YearlyLottery]

it is only one year left at 4 million, but your point is valid

You are correct, I read CapFriendly wrong but the point still stands.

 

[CupHolders]

Evaluating the trade:

1. Greene is inter-division AND the team captain which is why he commanded a second

2. The trade is similar to what Snow would have done in that he'd trade a future pick, then get it back in another trade down the road. ie..trade away a second pick now, then make a trade in the future for a 2nd in the same year

3. Quennville is for a contract going the other way.

4. Greene's contract ends this year, so no commitments

5. MAYBE the defense option came first before the forward option (for scoring)...so things may not be over yet.

6. We are not trading with the Rangers. There is no player we'd overpay for.

7. this is either a good thing or bad thing. Our prospects suck and no one wants to trade for them OR Quennville is not even on our future radar...

8. You noticed how crap the goalies have become since Pelech's been out. This is to help out more than just the D...it's to shore up the goaltending and to actually stop the danger area shots before they happen. Therefore, less stress on the forwards to have to backcheck so hard...giving them more energy to score goals.

Stop it right now! Eight sensible points, in bold and bullets nonetheless; is coming precariously close to bringing this site down!

 

[periferal]

What player with term are they getting in return for a 2021 second?

Pretty myopic way to look at it. Like any other draft pick or player a 2nd rounder is simply an asset. It doesn't have to be traded by itself in any deal. It can be packaged for something else more valuable.

So at the end of the day the question that should be asked is...Is using a valuable asset for a 37 year old pending UFA defenseman is the best use of that asset?

Even if Pelech, Clutterbuck, and Cizikas all come back for the playoffs...Are we a Cup contender as a result of this trade? Because if not then Lou just threw away a good asset which could've been used this offseason as part of a deal for something that could've helped us more and more long-term.

 

[Quicklime]

NJ traded Hall for a 2020 1st, a conditional 2021 3rd and some legit prospects, which is quite a sight different from a 2021 2nd and Quenneville. Subban was traded for two 2nd rounders and a couple mediocre prospects who are still both better than Quenneville. Not seeing either as comparable prices, personally. Also, Subban came with a problematic contract that would be an issue for our RFA situation this summer, especially if we also want to add up front.

Personally don't see the desire for ancillary offense, though. Isles have plenty of middling offensive forwards. The issue up front isn't that we are short on ancillary forwards; it's the lack of actual top talent that can drive the play and change the tempo offensively. And while I could be wrong, I just don't see us getting that with a 2nd rounder. But as I've asked, who would you grab that you both think would be available for a 2nd rounder and would make a bigger difference?

I’d honestly have to research and gauge the market; I’ll admit. No knock on Greene.

 

[periferal]

And if for some reason we trade one of our top 5 defensemen for offense, re-signing Greene for 1 year at $2.5M shouldn't be a problem for our cap. Greene gives us flexibility in case Pelech has lingering issues in October.

Greene is making 5M now. If he plays well enough where we want to resign him he's going to get considerably more than 2.5M (even on a 1 year deal).

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

1. Just because the Isles didn't know how to draft doesn't mean there isn't real talent there to be had.
2. I have no problem trading any draft pick...I'd just like it to be as part of a deal for a guy who's under 30, has a few years left on his deal, and can score goals.

we all would....

but....

1) We absolutely needed another blue liner to replace the loss of Pelech or we weren't going to make the playoffs in all likelihood

2) Investing in a blue liner with term and especially under 30 would be insane when we have 4 under 30 D-men already signed for next season, 2 more that are RFA's we need to re-sign and two more under contract that we need to try to get rid of

3) Not to mention that our prospect pool is defensive-heavy with talent

4) Taking on any future salary on defense prevents us from spending money on offense

 

[periferal]

One thing I haven't seen discussed anywhere...

Greene had a no trade clause and supposedly he didn't want to leave the Devils, and it took him a while to contemplate if he even wanted to waive it to go to the Isles.

Basically the Isles weren't competing with any other team for his services.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Greene is making 5M now. If he plays well enough where we want to resign him he's going to get considerably more than 2.5M (even on a 1 year deal).

He will be 38 years old...no, a 1-2 year deal at 2-3 million is a fair assessment.

He got the 5 million per year contract when he was 33 years old. He is a good player- but not a first pairing and a borderline second pairing....likely headed to a third line pairing for his final years

 

[YearlyLottery]

Pretty myopic way to look at it. Like any other draft pick or player a 2nd rounder is simply an asset. It doesn't have to be traded by itself in any deal. It can be packaged for something else more valuable.

So at the end of the day the question that should be asked is...Is using a valuable asset for a 37 year old pending UFA defenseman is the best use of that asset?

Even if Pelech, Clutterbuck, and Cizikas all come back for the playoffs...Are we a Cup contender as a result of this trade? Because if not then Lou just threw away a good asset which could've been used this offseason as part of a deal for something that could've helped us more and more long-term.

This is a point you and I just do not agree with value wise. If a 2021 2nd round pick ends up costing us a primetime player then you are correct. That being said, if the Islanders are to go and trade for a stud player and a 2nd has to be involved I would assume it is a 2020 2nd that teams will be looking for.

 

[seafoam]

I am not saying Greene will not contribute this season. I am saying if Lou is moving high picks , I want them used to add a younger player with term

A late second isn’t getting you a young player with term. Coleman is 28 with “term” (one year after this one) and got a 1st and Nolan Foote (who was a late 1st rounder).

 

[periferal]

we all would....

but....

1) We absolutely needed another blue liner to replace the loss of Pelech or we weren't going to make the playoffs in all likelihood

2) Investing in a blue liner with term and especially under 30 would be insane when we have 4 under 30 D-men already signed for next season, 2 more that are RFA's we need to re-sign and two more under contract that we need to try to get rid of

3) Not to mention that our prospect pool is defensive-heavy with talent

4) Taking on any future salary on defense prevents us from spending money on offense

1. I'm a bottom line guy and that bottom line is...I want to win the Stanley Cup. Period. I don't care about "just making the playoffs" nor do I believe that if you get there "anything can happen." Sure it's possible that an average team can win a round or two, but look at all the teams that won the Cup the past decade...All of them had more (elite) talent than the Isles do. That's the #1 thing we need to address and with far from a prospect pool with good tradable assets or extra picks, Lou's path this summer to finding a top-end forward didn't get easier.
2. Who said anything about adding a blue-liner with term? I want to add a high end FORWARD with term.
3. How heavy is our prospect pool overall - Much less just on defense? There are some guys that have some potential, but there teams banging down the door to trade for anyone other than Dobson.
4. Again see #2.

 

[seafoam]

McKenzie is saying the asking price for Martinez with term is a 2nd + prospect.
He is not saying an A prospect.

Quenneville is a nothing prospect and we don’t know who LA would be asking for in return for Martinez. Could have been Bellows for all we know. Keep in mind the 2nd rounder is a 2021 pick as opposed to a 2020 pick.

Clearly they prefer Greene for the price or else Martinez would be an Islander. Greene’s deployment is more similar to Pelech’s and he probably re-signs as a depth D at a cheaper price for next season and helps the Islanders young defensemen.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

About the 2nd rounder. Just going to point out the Isles have had 3 in the last 2 drafts. They also have their own 2nd in the 2020 upcoming draft. At this point they have had 3 first rounders in the past 2 drafts, and still own all of their firsts through the 2021 draft. Greene is worth far more at this point, than 1 2nd rd pick in 2021. If all goes well the that pick will be a 52-62 pick. Right now the Isles are in a playoff race to the death, and perhaps a deeper playoff run than last year. I say this was a very small price to pay, given Fitzgerald knew Pelech was out for the year, and that TDL D men fetch a far bigger premium. Lou won big here given the circumstances. Due to Greene only agreeing to waive his NTC due to his history with Lou.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

1. I'm a bottom line guy and that bottom line is...I want to win the Stanley Cup. Period. I don't care about "just making the playoffs" nor do I believe that if you get there "anything can happen." Sure it's possible that an average team can win a round or two, but look at all the teams that won the Cup the past decade...All of them had more (elite) talent than the Isles do. That's the #1 thing we need to address and with far from a prospect pool with good tradable assets or extra picks, Lou's path this summer to finding a top-end forward didn't get easier.
2. Who said anything about adding a blue-liner with term? I want to add a high end FORWARD with term.
3. How heavy is our prospect pool overall - Much less just on defense? There are some guys that have some potential, but there teams banging down the door to trade for anyone other than Dobson.
4. Again see #2.

I am fine with that assessment, actually. Unfortunately, a majority of the fans do care about making the playoffs and you also have to consider how the players react to folding the tent and ONLY trading assets for young good players with term (few, if any of which are likely to be moved in any deadline- much less this one) and not making the other necessity moves we need to compete for a playoff spot and a chance at the cup, even if it is a small one...

A 2021 second doesn't preclude us from obtaining a young forward with term- if one is available. Lou actually with his cap space could take on a salary vet and get close to back the 2nd rounder he just gave up and most certainly could during the offseason. The REALITY is such players are not likely to be available at the deadline......

 

[JKP]

According to Doug MacLean, only about 15% of 2nd round picks become impact NHLers. Only 45% even make the NHL.

I don’t get why some are so stressed about the price. Greene fills a hole they needed filled NOW with Pelech’s loss. Solid in own zone, kills penalties, blocks shots, restores L-R balance, restores stay-at-home with a rusher to the pairings.

Team has been sloppy on D since Pelech went down. Dobson shouldn’t be in the NHL, let alone replacing the kind of minutes Pelech played or causing the trickle down effect his presence has on the others.

They’re getting 2-4 months of decent Pelech replacement NOW for a 15% chance of a useful player helping starting in 2024+. Greene’s age is irrelevant - they only care about the next 2-4 months.

This is what good teams do - plug holes before they become too problematic. And that costs something.

I believe the D was a bigger short-term problem then finding another scoring forward. So I remain firmly a fan of this move (assuming Greene does what he’s expected to).

 

[YearlyLottery]

1. I'm a bottom line guy and that bottom line is...I want to win the Stanley Cup. Period. I don't care about "just making the playoffs" nor do I believe that if you get there "anything can happen." Sure it's possible that an average team can win a round or two, but look at all the teams that won the Cup the past decade...All of them had more (elite) talent than the Isles do. That's the #1 thing we need to address and with far from a prospect pool with good tradable assets or extra picks, Lou's path this summer to finding a top-end forward didn't get easier.
2. Who said anything about adding a blue-liner with term? I want to add a high end FORWARD with term.
3. How heavy is our prospect pool overall - Much less just on defense? There are some guys that have some potential, but there teams banging down the door to trade for anyone other than Dobson.
4. Again see #2.

The bolded is my biggest worry about whatever moves Lamoriello makes. The question to ask is does this stop him from doing the bolded? No it does not.

 

[notDatsyuk]

One thing I haven't seen discussed anywhere...

Greene had a no trade clause and supposedly he didn't want to leave the Devils, and it took him a while to contemplate if he even wanted to waive it to go to the Isles.

Basically the Isles weren't competing with any other team for his services.

I don't think that last paragraph necessarily follows from the preceding. Just because a player agrees to go to the Isles doesn't mean he had no choice. Maybe a couple of years ago, but not necessarily now.

 

[leeroggy]

I am not saying Greene will not contribute this season. I am saying if Lou is moving high picks , I want them used to add a younger player with term

Uncle Junior: "I want to f**k Angie Dickinson, let's see who get gets lucky first"

A likely late 2nd rounder in 2021 is just not a high enough pick to excite teams. It's certainly not Foote and a 1st like Tampa sent them.

What younger player with term in the NHL do you think Quenneville and a 2021 2nd is bringing you? Name one you would target with that package. To quote another actor (Duvall in Days of Thunder): "What kind of driver are you going to find after the season's started? Some old boy who's washed up, or wasn't worth a s**t to begin with.".

 

[leeroggy]

One thing I haven't seen discussed anywhere...

Greene had a no trade clause and supposedly he didn't want to leave the Devils, and it took him a while to contemplate if he even wanted to waive it to go to the Isles.

Basically the Isles weren't competing with any other team for his services.

Perif, that's speculating. He might well have waived for the Bruins, Pens, Lightning, Leafs (uggh, reflux . . . ). A Stanley Cup run for a few months is not difficult for the family to miss him if he brings home a ring.

 

[PK Cronin]

According to Doug MacLean, only about 15% of 2nd round picks become impact NHLers. Only 45% even make the NHL.

I don’t get why some are so stressed about the price. Greene fills a hole they needed filled NOW with Pelech’s loss. Solid in own zone, kills penalties, blocks shots, restores L-R balance, restores stay-at-home with a rusher to the pairings.

Team has been sloppy on D since Pelech went down. Dobson shouldn’t be in the NHL, let alone replacing the kind of minutes Pelech played or causing the trickle down effect his presence has on the others.

They’re getting 2-4 months of decent Pelech replacement NOW for a 15% chance of a useful player helping starting in 2024+. Greene’s age is irrelevant - they only care about the next 2-4 months.

This is what good teams do - plug holes before they become too problematic. And that costs something.

I believe the D was a bigger short-term problem then finding another scoring forward. So I remain firmly a fan of this move (assuming Greene does what he’s expected to).

Bingo. And since it is next year's, they have time to recoup it if they need to.

 

[periferal]

I don't think that last paragraph necessarily follows from the preceding. Just because a player agrees to go to the Isles doesn't mean he had no choice. Maybe a couple of years ago, but not necessarily now.

That's not my point.

My point is...Since Greene had control over his own fate and basically was deciding between the Isles or NJ, that means the Isles weren't bidding against any other team in terms of trade compensation to NJ.

When you can offer a player to all 30 other NHL teams and create a bidding war that's when the price of a player goes up. However when only 1 team wants him or can have him then the price should technically remain lower than if there was a bidding war.

And it seems like in this case, taking everything into account, a 2nd seems a tad high for a 37 year old pending UFA who no other teams were bidding on.

Perif, that's speculating. He might well have waived for the Bruins, Pens, Lightning, Leafs (uggh, reflux . . . ). A Stanley Cup run for a few months is not difficult for the family to miss him if he brings home a ring.

That's fair Leeroggy. Ultimately we don't know, but in reading all the articles about the trade I did see one that seemed to suggest he really didn't want to leave NJ and only because he could drive to his new team/stay roughly in the same area is the reason he waived the NTC.

 

[MJF]

So at the end of the day the question that should be asked is...Is using a valuable asset for a 37 year old pending UFA defenseman is the best use of that asset?

Or is that just the price of doing business to patch a short term, but gaping hole?