Confirmed with Link: Andrew Copp to Detroit | 5 years @ $5.6M

[Hinterland]

Ken Holland was crucified when he once lost this young superstar in a trade.

To be fair to Holland, I never got the hype around Jarnkrok either. He was a really poor prospect and and wasn't more than a sweetener in the Legwand deal. For Nashville he was a reclamation project at best and even the Redwings fans who liked Jarnkrok expected him to become a scorer, not a two way Center. Jarnkrok kind of reinvented himself so good on him but he clearly just doesn't have the talent or skillset many thought he had.

Compared to Copp I'd say Jarnkrok is clearly the better skater and playmaker. Other than that Copp is the better player. I'd pick Copp over Jarnkrok every day of the week.

 

[odin1981]

Again, he's NOT a Center. Played BARELY ANY C in the NHL.
Great player I love to watch but really not more than a plug in at Center.

With any luck, we only need him to play 2c for about 2-3 years before Kasper takes over and he moves to W for Kasper to be a vet mentor to. I don't view him as a long term center, but he I'd better than Suter at C for us.

 

[Hinterland]

With any luck, we only need him to play 2c for about 2-3 years before Kasper takes over and he moves to W for Kasper to be a vet mentor to. I don't view him as a long term center, but he I'd better than Suter at C for us.

It depends on what you wanna do with your line. If you wanna score, you take Suter, Veleno or Fabbri, maybe even Rasmussen over Copp at Center. If you wanna bury that line and shut- and grind down your opponents to create better matchups for your younger Centermen that's when Copp becomes a real option. One of the few things in hockey Copp can't do is to drive a scoring line so the only option to have him center a scoring line is to have elite playmaking and play driving on his wing. Ideally most of that comes from one superstar so you can add another more physical winger to keep the board work and forecheck going since Copp can do less of that, some of his strenghts, from Center. He also has very little experience playing the position. I'm not sure the Redwings have the wingers necessary to create an effective scoring line centered by Copp but we'll see. Im my view, asking a guy with zero creativity to drive a scoring line wouldn't be smart...especially since he has so many other qualities. I fear many here at some point are gonna be disappointed and stupidly hate on a very good player just because putting a square peg into a round hole didn't work.

 

[Hen Kolland]

It depends on what you wanna do with your line. If you wanna score, you take Suter, Veleno or Fabbri, maybe even Rasmussen over Copp at Center. If you wanna bury that line and shut- and grind down your opponents to create better matchups for your younger Centermen that's when Copp becomes a real option. One of the few things in hockey Copp can't do is to drive a scoring line so the only option to have him center a scoring line is to have elite playmaking and play driving on his wing. Ideally most of that comes from one superstar so you can add another more physical winger to keep the board work and forecheck going since Copp can do less of that, some of his strenghts, from Center. He also has very little experience playing the position. I'm not sure the Redwings have the wingers necessary to create an effective scoring line centered by Copp but we'll see. Im my view, asking a guy with zero creativity to drive a scoring line wouldn't be smart...especially since he has so many other qualities. I fear many here at some point are gonna be disappointed and stupidly hate on a very good player just because putting a square peg into a round hole didn't work.

Would you please just drop it. Every time you post in this thread your credibility becomes less and less. You just said that any one of Suter, Veleno, Fabbri, or Rasmussen would be more equipped to center an offensive line than Copp?

Fabbri quite literally isn’t capable of playing center. He doesn’t win draws, he’s the worst defensive forward on the team. Probably the single worst defensive player on the team. You put him at LW and try to cover up his defensive woes as much as you can.

Suter just showed us a year’s worth of center play, and the overall feeling I have from it is that he shouldn’t do it again.

Rasmussen and Veleno have struggled to produce offense in any capacity, so why you think that either one of them would be more equipped to do so as the center of the second line is as confusing as confusing gets.

It’s very apparent that you either don’t like Copp as much as you claim to, or you just have not the slightest clue what the f*** you’re talking about.

 

[13to40]

It depends on what you wanna do with your line. If you wanna score, you take Suter, Veleno or Fabbri, maybe even Rasmussen over Copp at Center. If you wanna bury that line and shut- and grind down your opponents to create better matchups for your younger Centermen that's when Copp becomes a real option. One of the few things in hockey Copp can't do is to drive a scoring line so the only option to have him center a scoring line is to have elite playmaking and play driving on his wing. Ideally most of that comes from one superstar so you can add another more physical winger to keep the board work and forecheck going since Copp can do less of that, some of his strenghts, from Center. He also has very little experience playing the position. I'm not sure the Redwings have the wingers necessary to create an effective scoring line centered by Copp but we'll see. Im my view, asking a guy with zero creativity to drive a scoring line wouldn't be smart...especially since he has so many other qualities. I fear many here at some point are gonna be disappointed and stupidly hate on a very good player just because putting a square peg into a round hole didn't work.

I think you will vastly surprised this season about Copp. He’s definitely a defensive sound center, but he does have more of an offensive upside than you’re giving him credit for.

If he is playing as our 2C, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he scores around 20 goals over a full season. It all depends on how he’s deployed though.

 

[jkutswings]

Copp looked alright centering Panarin.

While neither Perron not Vrana is Panarin, those are two good scoring wingers.

I think Copp will be just fine. Certainly better than anybody not named Larkin Detroit tried at center last year.

 

[FMichael]

Would you please just drop it. Every time you post in this thread your credibility becomes less and less. You just said that any one of Suter, Veleno, Fabbri, or Rasmussen would be more equipped to center an offensive line than Copp?

Fabbri quite literally isn’t capable of playing center. He doesn’t win draws, he’s the worst defensive forward on the team. Probably the single worst defensive player on the team. You put him at LW and try to cover up his defensive woes as much as you can.

Suter just showed us a year’s worth of center play, and the overall feeling I have from it is that he shouldn’t do it again.

Rasmussen and Veleno have struggled to produce offense in any capacity, so why you think that either one of them would be more equipped to do so as the center of the second line is as confusing as confusing gets.

It’s very apparent that you either don’t like Copp as much as you claim to, or you just have not the slightest clue what the f*** you’re talking about.

Hey now - don’t talk shit about a future Red Wings GM here…I mean he’s already a legend in his own mind.

 

[norrisnick]

Ken Holland was crucified when he once lost this young superstar in a trade.

Ken Holland was crucified for giving up 3 pieces that each on their own were of more value than David f***ing Legwand.

 

[norrisnick]

To be fair to Holland, I never got the hype around Jarnkrok either. He was a really poor prospect and and wasn't more than a sweetener in the Legwand deal. For Nashville he was a reclamation project at best and even the Redwings fans who liked Jarnkrok expected him to become a scorer, not a two way Center. Jarnkrok kind of reinvented himself so good on him but he clearly just doesn't have the talent or skillset many thought he had.

Compared to Copp I'd say Jarnkrok is clearly the better skater and playmaker. Other than that Copp is the better player. I'd pick Copp over Jarnkrok every day of the week.

There is no fair to Holland with that deal. I'd rather have had Jarnkrok than Legwand. I'd rather have had Eaves than Legwand. I'd rather have had the 2nd rounder than Legwand. I'd sure as shit rather have had all three than Legwand. There is no sense in tossing away youth and a pick for a broken down never was good in the first place bottom 6er in his mid 30s.

There is a long list of trades that were completely stupid from the second that they happened, and that one was one of them as there was literally no hope of 'winning' with that trade. Even if you were 100% certain that Jarnkrok would never be better than a 3rd liner... that's still a 3rd liner more than 10 years younger than Legwand.

 

[Hinterland]

I think you will vastly surprised this season about Copp. He’s definitely a defensive sound center, but he does have more of an offensive upside than you’re giving him credit for.

If he is playing as our 2C, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he scores around 20 goals over a full season. It all depends on how he’s deployed though.

Lots of offensive upside indeed but the one thing he doesn't do is drive play. He's just not creative, not a playmaker. Not necessarily a bad thing, just his style. His scoring output will depend on his usage a lot. Low scoring output doesn't necessarily mean poor performances. Him and Lowry didn't score a lot for the Jets but they were exceptional. Every Jets fan will tell you that.

 

[Hinterland]

There is no fair to Holland with that deal. I'd rather have had Jarnkrok than Legwand. I'd rather have had Eaves than Legwand. I'd rather have had the 2nd rounder than Legwand. I'd sure as shit rather have had all three than Legwand. There is no sense in tossing away youth and a pick for a broken down never was good in the first place bottom 6er in his mid 30s.

There is a long list of trades that were completely stupid from the second that they happened, and that one was one of them as there was literally no hope of 'winning' with that trade. Even if you were 100% certain that Jarnkrok would never be better than a 3rd liner... that's still a 3rd liner more than 10 years younger than Legwand.

I don't disagree but re Jarnkrok what Holland saw was a skill guy who clearly wasn't gonna work out. 99% of the small supposed to be skill guys struggling the way Jarnkrok did are gonna bust. No 3rd line. Jarnkrok reinvented himself. In Nashville I think Ekholm introduced him as a scorer, an offensive player. That's not at all what they got.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I hated adding Jarnkrok to that trade. Thought Eaves and a 2nd was plenty. But Babcock also didn't do Legwand any favors playing him on the 4th line with like Drew Miller.

 

[lomekian]

Ken Holland was crucified for giving up 3 pieces that each on their own were of more value than David f***ing Legwand.

Wasn't Legwand having a career season that year at appoint 0.8ppg in Nashville? And had been their first line center for years. Basically he turned up, looked decent but not as good as advertised and then out of nowhere Babs just 4th lined him for no apparent reason. Another career he killed.

The unfortunate one was Erik Cole who we gave up a decent amount for. He turned up, looked a great fit, was adjusting to the system reasonably well and then got a career ending injury after like 12 games....

 

[RRhoads]

Wasn't Legwand having a career season that year at appoint 0.8ppg in Nashville? And had been their first line center for years. Basically he turned up, looked decent but not as good as advertised and then out of nowhere Babs just 4th lined him for no apparent reason. Another career he killed.

The unfortunate one was Erik Cole who we gave up a decent amount for. He turned up, looked a great fit, was adjusting to the system reasonably well and then got a career ending injury after like 12 games....

More like 0.6ppg.

Zetterberg was injured in the Olympics, so we needed a number 2 center.

 

[jkutswings]

we needed a number 2 center.

Now where have I heard that before...

 

[haulinbass]

Wasn't Legwand having a career season that year at appoint 0.8ppg in Nashville? And had been their first line center for years. Basically he turned up, looked decent but not as good as advertised and then out of nowhere Babs just 4th lined him for no apparent reason. Another career he killed.

The unfortunate one was Erik Cole who we gave up a decent amount for. He turned up, looked a great fit, was adjusting to the system reasonably well and then got a career ending injury after like 12 games....

Yeah Legwand didn't look to bad for us. Definitly had more to do with something between him and Babcock. I remember reading something about it awhile back but don't remember the exact details.

 

[ZDH]

I don't think he's posted it yet. I've seen some WAR models predicting 101 points though.

Considering last year the Atlantic division was super top heavy last season, and how many of them lost key free agents or are starting the season with major injuries, I believe there will be a major redistribution of points.

Teams that will gain points in the standings:
Ottawa hasn't done much to make me think they picked up a ton of points. They'll finish somewhere between 85 and 95 points.
Detroit. Nuff said.

Teams that are going to lose points in the standings:
Buffalo has done zilch to improve their goaltending, and they lost Pysyk who was an analytics darling for them. I'm also expecting a down season from Skinner because he has consistency issues.
Boston is going to have Marchand and McAvoy on IR to start the season. Bergeron is 1 year older and he's gotta slow down from age at some point. I'm guessing they tread water in the first half.
Tampa lost Palat and McDonagh. Those are huge losses. They also lost Lalonde who managed their PK and defense and added Blashill. Let's see how that plays out.
Toronto lost depth in Kase and Mikheyev walking as free agents, Spezza retiring and haven't replaced those guys. Worse, they let Campbell walk over 250k and got a major downgrade in net with Matt Murray.

Teams that could stay the same:
Florida only lost Marchment who could go full David Clarkson in Dallas playing alongside Jamie Benn and Tyler Seguin. I think they'll still be a 110+ point squad and tops in the Atlantic.
Montreal probably has another tank season in them. Maybe 10-12 more points just by virtue of the new coach but won't be surprised to see them try to dump 12+ mil in salary. (can you believe they're up against the cap?!)

FLA lost Giroux too.

 

[Hinterland]

FLA lost Giroux too.

Addition by subtraction. Marchment was great for them but it remains to be seen if he can keep it up elsewhere. Giroux has been great for them as well but if he can stay healthy then Colin White might outscore Giroux this or next season already. Him and Balcers are two of the best FA signings this season because they have upside and are just 25 yo RFA's. Big mistake by Ottawa to buy out White to sign an aging Giroux and a great cap saving move by Florida. I know White didn't live up to his contract because of injuries and it was now or never for Ottawa but still. Unless there's something terribly wrong with White healthwise he'll get to what he was pre injuries. Probably beyond that.

 

[newfy]

Addition by subtraction. Marchment was great for them but it remains to be seen if he can keep it up elsewhere. Giroux has been great for them as well but if he can stay healthy then Colin White might outscore Giroux this or next season already. Him and Balcers are two of the best FA signings this season because they have upside and are just 25 yo RFA's. Big mistake by Ottawa to buy out White to sign an aging Giroux and a great cap saving move by Florida. I know White didn't live up to his contract because of injuries and it was now or never for Ottawa but still. Unless there's something terribly wrong with White healthwise he'll get to what he was pre injuries. Probably beyond that.

Do you even watch hockey? Colin White is going to outscore Giroux?

I'll have some of what youre smoking

 

[Hinterland]

Do you even watch hockey? Colin White is going to outscore Giroux?

I'll have some of what youre smoking

White was picked 21st, Giroux 22nd but White is 25, Giroux 34. White outscored Giroux in his rookie season before injuries hit. Giroux had down years in Philly already. How many good years does he have? At this point, I'll take White over Giroux, especially with their current contracts and I wouldn't be surprised to see White outscore Giroux before the latter's contract ends. Also, White may suck at faceoffs while Giroux is a beast, I'd say White is better against the puck and he offers more grit. Right now, White isn't as good as Giroux but looking at their contracts he doesn't have to be.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

White was picked 21st, Giroux 22nd but White is 25, Giroux 34. White outscored Giroux in his rookie season before injuries hit. Giroux had down years in Philly already. How many good years does he have? At this point, I'll take White over Giroux, especially with their current contracts and I wouldn't be surprised to see White outscore Giroux before the latter's contract ends. Also, White may suck at faceoffs while Giroux is a beast, I'd say White is better against the puck and he offers more grit. Right now, White isn't as good as Giroux but looking at their contracts he doesn't have to be.

Even if all that were true, which is highly speculative at best & easily debateable, you have to factor in Giroux's mentorship impact on their young, talented team & F core especially.

Colin White may not even be in the NHL in 2 yrs.

 

[newfy]

White was picked 21st, Giroux 22nd but White is 25, Giroux 34. White outscored Giroux in his rookie season before injuries hit. Giroux had down years in Philly already. How many good years does he have? At this point, I'll take White over Giroux, especially with their current contracts and I wouldn't be surprised to see White outscore Giroux before the latter's contract ends. Also, White may suck at faceoffs while Giroux is a beast, I'd say White is better against the puck and he offers more grit. Right now, White isn't as good as Giroux but looking at their contracts he doesn't have to be.

Ok now address the part where you said Whit might outscore Giroux this year. Thats absolutely ridiculous

 

[Hen Kolland]

Ok now address the part where you said Whit might outscore Giroux this year. Thats absolutely ridiculous

What's funny is saying White outscored Giroux in his rookie season.

Giroux played 42 games and had 27 points...was on pace for 52-53 points.
White played 71 games (I'm ignoring his 21 game season) and had 41 points...was on pace for 47-48 points.

I guess in Giroux's sophomore season he had 47 points in 82 games...but then he followed it up with a 25 goal 76 point season, followed by a 93 point season.

Whereas White followed up his rookie season with...oh...23 points in 61 games...and then 18 points in 45 games...and then 10 points in 24 games...

It'd be one thing if White was signed for a long term deal that cost pennies on the dollar, but he's signed for one year. To call that tidy work by Florida is just wrong. They let a very good player go (not that they had a choice) and replaced him with someone who hasn't been healthy in years, hasn't produced near what people thought he would, and while they maintain control, that means he isn't cost certain. If he blows up, they will have to sign a more costly deal, and if he does more of nothing, they won't qualify him and the signing will be pointless

 

[jaster]

Hey, at least @Hinterland drives discussion. I'd plug him into a message board's 2nd line center role any day of the week.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Hey, at least @Hinterland drives discussion. I'd plug him into a message board's 2nd line center role any day of the week.

seems more like a tweener to me 2/3C. ..& is he really a C and not more of a W?