Player Discussion Andreas Athanasiou

[nabob]

I'm saying AA isn't having to face other teams top pairing defenders and forwards like McDavid or Draisaitls lines.

Only reason he isn't getting "easy" zone starts is so that Sheahan can win the faceoff, get the puck out and line change to McDavids line.

So his lines job is to play in their own zone more often than not against the other teams best offensive players so that other lines can get the offensive zone time? Those are not sheltered minutes lol.

I say the against the other teams best offensive players because teams always put their top line on the ice for offensive zone starts as often as possible. So if AA’s line is being used in the defensive zone as much as possible it would make correlate to him starting more of his shifts against the other teams better players. Which is not lesser competition and is not sheltered minutes. It’s actually the opposite.

If you can show me that teams put their worse players out for offensive zone face offs then I’ll concede.

 

[Soundwave]

Coaches are short sighted, they are just focused on the the here and now. Even with Hitchcock, dude refused to try some different line combos because he was desperately trying to win as many games down the stretch to save his job, the team just had tuned him out completely.

Your star players really dictate more than the coach does. People jumping all over Draisaitl for taking a long shift last game in OT, but he does that because in his mind no one else on the Oilers can score in OT.

That's the problem the Oilers did to themselves by letting McDavid-Draisiatl be a line that carried the team so long and not giving them secondary scoring is you created an atmosphere where the star players don't have trust.

Now that is starting to change a bit, but clearly there are remnants that remain from the "aw shit, if McDavid or Leon don't score it's game over" line of thinking.

This is why it's vitally important that you work with players like AA so the Oilers never go back to being that one dimensional again. The long term gain far outweighs short term pain. It's very important to the development of this team that they get this player playing at a confident level, when that happens the top 6 will be far more balanced and then habits like Leon has of taking marathon shifts will start to fade. These things are all connected.

 

[Soundwave]

Kassian brings a lot on the forecheck compared to AA, theres a reason why guys like Maroon and Kass have had success with McDavid (Hint: It isn't because of their speed and shot)

FWIW since the suspension Kass has backed off physically and it shows with that lines success. But he is still currently a better option on that line than what AA brings overall

Every player playing with McDavid has had some uptick in their scoring basically with the exception of like AHL tier players (Gagner, Rattie, etc. got exposed eventually). Even Pouliot and Yakupov did.

Why (or even how) this team never tried Strome with McDavid is quite frankly astoundingly stupid.

Again this shit ain't rocket science. The problem is that the team sometimes panicks when there isn't 100% great chemistry straight off the bat and goes away from it, but that's the same reason why RNH + Draisaitl really never got a look before this year.

They had been tried for short stretches, but didn't look good together. Short sample sizes aren't the best barometer for whether or not something can work.

This is actually where the success McDavid and Draisaitl had together was probably in the long term not a good thing for the franchise. Because if they would try something else and it didn't immediately click they would go running back to the safety blanket of that line, but that modus operandei prevented so many different combinations that could have been tried from ever getting a fair chance.

 

[nabob]

What this team needs is for AA to play with half the effort level Prussel brought every night and he would be playing in the top 6 right now

That would be great.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Last thing I'll say is, AA can be good. I'm glad Tippett is taking the slow approach with him to help build his confidence in his complete game again

 

[nabob]

most of every players starts are on the fly...and you’re admitting that teams start their best lines in the offensive zone off face offs. It’s a fact that AA starts most of his zone starts off face offs in the defensive zone. Those are not against lesser competitors as you are claiming. Not trolling. Just addressing your post.

​

 

[CycloneSweep]

most of every players starts are on the fly...and you’re admitting that teams start their best lines in the offensive zone off face offs. It’s a fact that AA starts most of his zone starts off face offs in the defensive zone. Those are not against lesser competitors as you are claiming. Not trolling. Just addressing your post.

​

NHL Player Stats - Corsica Hockey

If you sort by Oiler and QOC TOI%, AA is getting the 7/8th highest for our forwards, which means he is playing EASIER minutes than our top 6.

The numbers are there. Unless you think McDavids line faces lower quality players on a shift to shift basis than Sheahan, which none of the numbers show

 

[Soundwave]

Just play him with McDavid.

I've seen nothing from his defensive game that indicates he's any worse really on that end than Gagner or Kassian or Neal who repeatedly got chances with McDavid.

Play him there, he will look nervous for a while and then he will get over it eventually and the sooner you get past that "oh I can't believe I'm playing with McDavid, I need to do everything now!" phase of jitters, the sooner you can get down to business.

Even for McDavid's sake, this whole, "Leon gets his line loaded up and Connor gets this weird revolving door of wingers" is not good. You paid 2 2nds for this guy and you didn't pay that to play this guy with Sheahan. That Neal-Chiasson line has been real good together, no sense in breaking them up.

Let them play together, eventually they will score some goals together even if it has to come with Connor banking a couple off his ass, and then the player is just playing instead of thinking and now you can properly judge what you have, but you can't possibly judge anything under these circumstances.

AA McDavid Kassian
RNH Drai Yams
Ennis Sheahan Archibald
Neal Khaira Chiasson

Simply go with this, and stick with it, even if it doesn't look great at times on the McDavid side. I'm willing to bet after an acclimation period it will start to yield results.

 

[nabob]

NHL Player Stats - Corsica Hockey

If you sort by Oiler and QOC TOI%, AA is getting the 7/8th highest for our forwards, which means he is playing EASIER minutes than our top 6.

The numbers are there. Unless you think McDavids line faces lower quality players on a shift to shift basis than Sheahan, which none of the numbers show

I m talking about zone starts and usage. You’re changing the convo, moving the goal posts as Replacement would say. I’m talking about zone starts and how that correlates to the competition faced.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I m talking about zone starts and usage. You’re changing the convo, moving the goal posts as Replacement would say.

*Deep breath*
Drivesaitl said he is getting sheltered minutes.
You brought up zone starts
I said he is seeing favorable competition.
You have to sbeen trying to say more defensive zone starts=harder competition.
I just proved that he was seeing lesser competition.

Is he getting favorable offensive zone starts? No. Is he seeing lesser competition then he would on McDavids line? Absolutely.

We are talking about the same side of tough ice time. I'm arguing QOC matters far more than zone starts

 

[Drivesaitl]

Decided to just look up the numbers for myself. Most of AA starts are on the fly. Our third line takes a low amount of ozone starts cause, why would you want to start them in the ozone over your best lines.

It is much easier to get familiar with systems and gain confidence when you aren't on a line that literally has to score or you don't win. That's a lot of pressure on a guy who has none.

"Don't get scored on and your line needs to score a goal or two every day or we lose"

Much easier on a line saying "hey, just don't get destroyed and try not to allow goals against".

But you always have to be the contrarian to me and Drive so I'm sure you know that, just like to troll

heh

bolded for the commonsense of it. Good post. yeah, didn't believe for a moment that most of AA shift starts are in D zone.

but good post.

Obvious what is occurring.

 

[CycloneSweep]

heh

bolded for the commonsense of it. Good post. yeah, didn't believe for a moment that most of AA shift starts are in D zone.

but good post.

Obvious what is occurring.

He has more dzone starts than ozone starts and more neutral zone starts than dzone starts and like most players, more on the fly starts. Our top 6 lines see more ozone starts because, like most teams you want those guys to have the most scoring chances. Draisaitl also sees a ton of o zone starts because he is good at winning faceoffs there.

AA is not seeing shutdown minutes and he isn't seeing constant shut down defenders

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Thought he had a good game today, but maybe stop changing his linemates every period.

 

[3IR]

Thought he had a good game today, but maybe stop changing his linemates every period.

I get we wanna get lines figured out for the playoffs, but you'd think some stability would be big for a young guy after his first trade to a team that's not nearly as bad as his previous one.

 

[Drivesaitl]

At least he was noticeable a few times tonight, and he got lots of looks with McD. But same old story and you can tell the 3-4 shifts a night where AA is on. That's not enough.

In anycase it looks like the mystery of AA won't be solved for a very long time. Were done here folks.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I get we wanna get lines figured out for the playoffs, but you'd think some stability would be big for a young guy after his first trade to a team that's not nearly as bad as his previous one.

What playoffs?

Prospects of there being one is murky at best.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

At least he was noticeable a few times tonight, and he got lots of looks with McD. But same old story and you can tell the 3-4 shifts a night where AA is on. That's not enough.

In anycase it looks like the mystery of AA won't be solved for a very long time. Were done here folks.

I mean most of the team didn’t look great, even the big guns.

 

[Oilhawks]

He looked good tonight. An extended offseason of training and practice and he’s going to be a great player for the Oilers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I mean most of the team didn’t look great, even the big guns.

Drai made about 8 plays tonight. Nobody cashed. Drai also had a couple scoring chances of his own. The firstline other than the goal looked pretty damn normal considering two stars were on it.

First line should've been able to get more done. That was the stacked line tonight.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Drai made about 8 plays tonight. Nobody cashed. Drai also had a couple scoring chances of his own. The firstline other than the goal looked pretty damn normal considering two stars were on it.

First line should've been able to get more done. That was the stacked line tonight.

They all looked ordinary. Maybe, just maybe stop changing the lines so damn much.

 

[Llamamoto]

What did this guy do tonight? Generates no offense, does not try to hit, goddamn Holland should be fired if he makes another idiotic trade like this. Nail Yakupov creates more than this shit for brains.

Just stop. No one takes you seriously anymore.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Just stop. No one takes you seriously anymore.

He's been removed from this thread. My patience has worn thin.

 

[belair]

This guy's going to be a point of contention here for a while. But I will admit I'm glad to see Tippett taking his time with him.

Whoever the Red Wing was who mentioned the kid wanting to skate through people instead of around them was on point though.

 

[McShogun99]

If the season keeps going I want Tippet to keep RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto together and put AA with Mcdavid-Kassian. Why break up the best line in the league to get help for Mcdavid. He's still going to finish 2nd in league scoring and teams will still put their top checkers on his line regardless of who his wingers are. He already has chemistry with Kassian, now let them build some chemistry with AA.

 

[Llamamoto]

If the season keeps going I want Tippet to keep RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto together and put AA with Mcdavid-Kassian. Why break up the best line in the league to get help for Mcdavid. He's still going to finish 2nd in league scoring and teams will still put their top checkers on his line regardless of who his wingers are. He already has chemistry with Kassian, now let them build some chemistry with AA.

This x100. Kassian and Athanasiou both showed chemistry with McDavid today, and they have both done so on multiple occasions. The DRY line is obvious, and I think that a line of Ennis - Sheahan - Archibald would be real solid.

Athanasiou - McDavid - Kassian
Nuge - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Ennis - Sheahan - Archibald
Neal - Khaira/Haas - Chiasson

All of those lines have had good looks so far.