most of the ones doing that had declared him a failure before he even played a single game.
if you watch any player under a microscope looking for plays that aren’t perfect, even the best of them (besides Gretzky) make mistakes.
Player Discussion Andreas Athanasiou
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most of the ones doing that had declared him a failure before he even played a single game.
if you watch any player under a microscope looking for plays that aren’t perfect, even the best of them (besides Gretzky) make mistakes.
I think if you have the two best centers in the world along with Nuge and Yamamoto, then you can easily have a potential 30 goal scorer like AA slotted in the top six.
If you look at second line wingers around the league AA isn’t out of place IMO.
Right now our "second line" consists of McDavid + various 3/4 liners. The biggest difference between a third liner and second is consistency. AA hasn't really shown any sort of it for his entire career, which is why I think he will be part of the revolving door of McDavid wingers. Play him till he isn't working, try someone new. He isn't consistent enough offensively or strong enough away from the puck to be a constant top 6 guy. Nothing wrong with that, just people need to have lower expectations for him.
ElysiumAB
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Edmonton.
He was second to only Larkin on the Wings, maybe Mantha I guess.
I'm not saying someone like RNH won't out-produce him, I'm saying RNH isn't really capable of flying through the neutral zone, beating a guy wide and driving hard to the net in the same way AA is. Only McD and Drai really do that.
that’s a fair take. Hopefully Tippett can coach out some of the bad habits that he has always had throughout his career and maybe the influence of McDavid and Drai, and the “cookie” of being able to play with them will motivate him.
I see a player who is a bit of a mix between Puljujarvi and Yakupov skills wise, but also unfortunately looks lost in the Ozone at times unless he’s the one rushing the puck up ice. I don’t think his negative attributes are as bad as either of those guys and think he also has more potential of putting it together than they did.
ElysiumAB
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I don't think AA will ever work with McD, but I could be wrong.
Just seems to me if they're both playing their style, there would just be two parallel lines flying up the ice... I think AA would work better with a slower player that has vision, like Drai who can have a fast burst, stop, then feed him as a late man and he's gone.
I agree. I’d actually really like to see a AA/Drai/Yams line with Nuge put back up with McDavid if the team continues to play like they have four flat tires out there.
Drai is so smart and has such great vision that I think he works with anyone that has skill really well.
Even without the bad habits, he just doesn't really think the game....well. he has skills that are game breaking for sure but his decision making is unfortunate. With him being 25 I think, I don't think you can really coach that into him. You can get him to be more responsible, and make simpler plays but I don't think he will ever be that high flying high end winger people thought he could be. That said, a legit scoring 3rd line winger is something we have also been missing forever
ElysiumAB
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I agree (and I'm definitely not talking about defense at all, that would be a long list)... I included Mantha in my post.
Bertuzzi has definitely shown more consistent and reliable production and is a more valuable player at this point, but I didn't include him because AA has a longer history, Bertuzzi is a rather new development, this is only his second full-ish season.
I disagree with this entirely. The Drain line works so well because all 3 are responsible, fight for the pucks, are where they need to be and they think the game incredibly well. AA is entirely different. Draisaitl works best with smart players who can read him and who he can read. Loose cannon type players like AA, Puljujarvi etc just cause Draisaitl to overplay everything and frustrate him. We have seen it plenty.
ElysiumAB
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Right, and I don't think AA is really accustomed to doing anything but taking the puck in the neutral zone and trying to beat the entire team himself.
He's kind of like an NBA player that just gets the ball and drives the net.
ElysiumAB
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Seeing AA's name next to Puljujarvi physically hurt me. Please don't.
Pulju was clueless and never really showed potential to me. AA might be a one trick pony, but it can be a really really good trick.
My point is he is still unpredictable, which isn't the type of player Drai is good with
I remember posters criticizing Yamamoto for being too small, not physical and unpredictable before his call up at New Years. Guess you never know if players will have chemistry until you try it.
Jesus Take the Wheel
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Because that's how Yama was the year prior, if Yama still forechecked lthe way AA currently does that line would be a lot less successful
I don't remember anyone was saying he was unpredictable. The knock from me and others is he was too small and wasn't strong enough for his game to be effective at the NHL level, which he proved wrong. Misjudging a players ability to go between the AHL and NHL is one thing. AA is a known quantity in the NHL already and his unpredictable nature is known.
I mean it MIGHT work. But we have seen Drai with many kinds of players before and he doesn't excel with chaos. He excels with structure and cycling.
I mean it could be worth a shot but we know for a fact him and his current line mates work together, leave that be, make the rest of the roster work. That way we have at least one line that can get stuff done
Yep. Yamamoto is also a young prospect, not an established NHL player. Yamamoto was a strong forechecker at other levels. AA has NEVER been a strong forechecker so expecting that to change now is...not really likely.
Jesus Take the Wheel
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Then I really don't expect AA to be given a shot in our top 6 if he refuses to put the effort into forechecking, hell Tippett at one point threw PRussell on the top line cause of his forecheck
Drivesaitl
Finding Hyman
Forget it. Nabob needs to mention this 523 times and counting. Yama transformed every aspect of his play. He did his homework and then some. AA is near 26 and has been in the league several seasons. I think you said earlier with AA this is pretty much what we got.
I do expect a tweener type player that can score 20 in the right config. WC is harder for a player like AA. Always maintained this. He's not going to get 30 breakaways a year playing here.
But heres how strawman implementation works. Some people were wrong on Yama so there can't be valid comments on any other incoming player ever..
Drivesaitl
Finding Hyman
You noticed that too. I thought it was a pretty blatant message sent. One thing P Russell will do is work and grind. No scoring talent, but he'll dig. Trouble with having AA in our topsix is he figures he's the guy. He'll stand around in the slot somewhere like he's OV while grunts like McD and Drai can go dig him the puck . f***, even Chiasson has that habit at times. Thats a positive aspect with Kassian, he usually knows his role.
Prior to this season, Athansiou and RNH had basically the same goals per game for the previous 3 years.
0.3 GPG. That is not a "3rd line production", that's easily above 23 goals in a 82 game season.
Is RNH a third line player too?
I'm not making any call on this player until
1.) I see him playing "comfortable" here, his regular game and gets over the jitters of being in a new situation with radically different expectations. Right now he looks very tight and nervous because he doesn't want to make a mistake.
2.) I see THAT version of him playing with McDavid or Draisaitl for 15-20 games.
Then you can make a judgement. Before that you're just blowing smoke out of your ass, like judging Ryan Strome's offensive production when he was saddled on the 3rd line and was on pace for an 8 point season as a result.
Some people making sweeping indictments on a player that's played 1 1/2 game total with McDavid in which he tallied 2 points and 0 time with Draisaitl or RNH. Kassian was garbage before being put with McDavid and Draisaitl on pace for a 6 goal season, he got it going eventually with them.
0.3 GPG. That is not a "3rd line production", that's easily above 23 goals in a 82 game season.
Is RNH a third line player too?
I'm not making any call on this player until
1.) I see him playing "comfortable" here, his regular game and gets over the jitters of being in a new situation with radically different expectations. Right now he looks very tight and nervous because he doesn't want to make a mistake.
2.) I see THAT version of him playing with McDavid or Draisaitl for 15-20 games.
Then you can make a judgement. Before that you're just blowing smoke out of your ass, like judging Ryan Strome's offensive production when he was saddled on the 3rd line and was on pace for an 8 point season as a result.
Some people making sweeping indictments on a player that's played 1 1/2 game total with McDavid in which he tallied 2 points and 0 time with Draisaitl or RNH. Kassian was garbage before being put with McDavid and Draisaitl on pace for a 6 goal season, he got it going eventually with them.
Offensive production is more than just goals. Lots of guys put up goals but zero assists and can't play defense so they end up in the bottom 6.
Like who?
Who are these "bottom six players that score 30 goals in a season but are on the 3rd line"?
There's maybe like a tiny handful players like that in the NHL.
It's not like Alex Chiasson and Zack Kassian (this guy routinely whiffs on getting the puck out of his zone like 2-3 times a game causing a tire fire for our D) and Sam Gagner were defensive stalwarts yet they've all gotten extended play time in the top 6.
Athansiou has played 1 and half game total in our top six and had two points in that time, that's a fact.
2/3 points that Ennis has (who keeps getting top six time) are from Athansiou directly. His goal is set up by Athanisou and 1/2 assists are from Athansiou scoring a goal that got the Oilers a point in Anaheim.
If Kassian, Gagner, Chiasson, Ennis can be given chance after chance with McDavid and have little production to show for it, AA should be given another try with McDavid at least. He really should be tried with Draisaitl as that's likely the most ideal candidate for him but line politics becomes a thing.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hyman
Fwiw I wanted Strome retained. Many did. He wasn't bad here, not as much production as liked, but again on a ratty bottomsix. Strome having a very solid year. That said I don't think Strome loved it here. With him I think it was a location thing. He's more motivated playing in NY area it seems.
