And Then Everyone Dared Disturb the Sound of Silence (CBA & Lockout) XXIII ‎

[Bruins71*]

I've seen nothing to convince me they are. It was perfectly logical for the owners to kill a season last time. I do not believe it is this time around.

The owners were all billionaires long before hockey was an issue to them. All of them have plenty of other businesses to keep them busy and fill their wallets. Hockey is not a priority to the owners, at all.

 

[wolffy66]

At least I have the Erie Otters.

 

[IcemanTBI]

It is times like this I am so happy to live in a big OHL town like London.

The OHL is a great league, and a terrific substitute for the NHL. I love driving around the province to see games.

I do sympathize with hockey fans who don't have high level junior or even AHL hockey right at their doorstep though. This lockout must be killing you.

I am missing televised hockey, but I have already been to about six OHL games this year all across the province (Sarnia, London, Guelph, Oshawa, and Belleville) and plan to get to at least a couple more by the season's end (Brampton and Niagara are top priorities before the Battalion move and the Ice Dogs get that new arena).

I hear ya! The OHL is for sure a great substitute. Been to alot of the Soo Greyhound games which has satisfied my appetite for hockey.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

So I just opened the thread with no news on anything going on. What's the feeling, gents? Positive? Negative? Nothing reported? I see some things about LeBrun saying he didn't get a good vibe, but knowing how this process has gone there are 3-4 others saying a deal is close.

 

[IcemanTBI]

If they are talking pensions, it means they are getting no where on the main issue. While they are meeting, may as well deal with the smaller issues I guess.

 

[Kopistar]

Thank God my Kings won the cup, otherwise this lockout would make me lose my mind.

 

[Bruins71*]

If the AHL or any CHL league could get any semblance of media coverage in the US, I would honestly not even care if the NHL folded for good. Unfortunately, the only options are overpriced online streaming services that are **** quality. I just need to be able to watch skillful, competitive hockey, no matter what league it is.

 

[Marns]

If they are talking pensions, it means they are getting no where on the main issue. While they are meeting, may as well deal with the smaller issues I guess.

Unless they've sorted out the main stuff and are now just working on the small details...

Nah

 

[Ari91]

I don't see Fehr's memo as being particularly troubling. Assuming his description of the NHL's offer is accurate (and I believe it is, because he would be inviting a backlash from the league if he misrepresented it), then all he did was accurately assess it as a demand for further cuts to salary and bargaining rights.

Fehr's job is to communicate the issues to the players, and I can't see any exaggeration in that memo.

But the key point here, the thing that matters, is that he also communicates that these issues will need to be overcome in the upcoming meetings. Not that they are unsurpassable, or outrageous, which is exactly what he would say if things were close to breaking down again.

It's clear from the wording and the tone that Fehr expects to continue working with the NHL to chip away at least the most odious elements of the player-rights proposal (note the line where he contrasts a single concession to the entire package, the former being uncomfortable but the latter being unacceptable) and that he is now operating with the assumption that 50/50 is the final destination (note that he is now objecting to an immediate salary rollback, not a gradual cut). That is all great news, because it signals movement toward the owners' plan. They are at least on the same page that a 50/50 rollback will occur and that some players' rights will be restricted; now it's more about wrangling the specifics together over long hours of negotiation.

I'm not one to give Fehr much credit for anything (see: my posting history) but I don't think he's being unreasonable or counterproductive here.

I've been naturally pessimistic about this process and interpreted the memo as a potentially bad sign. Still not getting my hopes up but you've made a lot of sensible points that give me another perspective to look at.

 

[Hammerheart]

EThey're living in a fantasy world getting paid huge amounts to play a game.

That's like saying people who work construction are simply getting paid to hammer nails, not realizing the hard work that goes into it each and every day.

 

[rdawg1234]

So the difference between the sides is from what I understand:

NHL: 50/50 right away, but first two years the drop is partially/mostly paid by owners, so essentially, 53% yr 1, 51% yr 2, 50/50 rest of the time.

NHLPA: Still delinked(dont know why) based on 5% growth(which isnt happening this year) 54% yr 1, 51% yr 2, 50/50 rest of the way.

So were not talking a huge monetary difference, although the language is still different, and IMO silly the PA still isnt offering something linked, but still a small gap regardless.

Its the contract issues that are huge, I'd be surprised if the NHL doesnt at least budge slightly on the contract limits(I mean give more than 5 years or something.)

We are really not that far off, most issues SHOULD be met in the middle, I'll laugh if they cancel a season because one side wants 7 year limits and the other wants 10 years or something.

 

[rdawg1234]

That's like saying people who work construction are simply getting paid to hammer nails, not realizing the hard work that goes into it each and every day.

People who work construction dont make millions, they make alot, but their work is alot more dangerous, heavy and 24/7 than a guy who plays 20 minutes of hockey a few times a week.It's laughable the players are complaining about what is largely a 4-6% paycut right now, tiny in the long run, what is that, 50'000 of their salary for the year?

I do agree they deserve better rights on contracts though, as the NHL's offer is a little harsh, but I'm hoping they get something liek 8-10 yr limits etc.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Why all the doom & gloom? People overreacting again?

 

[Oilfan2]

Unless egos get in the way you would have to think that common sense would prevail.
I wonder if Bettman cares at all about the fact that he would be the only sports exec who has lost two seasons and had a third labour shortage during his term.

That's not quite accurate...

Donald Fehr became associated with the MLB in 1977...

Fehr has become the only Executive Director to be directly involved in work stoppages in two sports. Six of the eight contract negotiations he has been involved in have resulted in work stoppages, including five consecutive negotiations between the MLBPA and Major League Baseball...

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Next thread title " pensions? We talkin bout pensions??"

How about "We'll All Be Receiving Pensions By the Time this is Settled"

 

[Bruins71*]

I think this is the best way to explain the leverage situation right now.

Players need the NHL to continue living the lifestyle that they have been living as no other league will provide them with the salaries and benefits that the NHL offers.

Owners need players to make money from hockey; However, they do NOT need players to make money from all of the other businesses they are involved in.

The reality is that the NHL holds all the leverage and they have no problem digging in and canceling the season to eventually get to a point where they feel the CBA is fair.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

That's not quite accurate...

Donald Fehr became associated with the MLB in 1977...

Fehr has become the only Executive Director to be directly involved in work stoppages in two sports. Six of the eight contract negotiations he has been involved in have resulted in work stoppages, including five consecutive negotiations between the MLBPA and Major League Baseball...

I knew about Fehr. I meant the exec of a sport ie the President etc of the sports league.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib
So far, no substantive talks between #nhl and #nhlpa talks today. Pension subcommittee's only. League waiting for Fehrs at 3:30 ET

*sigh*

 

[IslesBeBack*]

I think this is the best way to explain the leverage situation right now.

Players need the NHL to continue living the lifestyle that they have been living as no other league will provide them with the salaries and benefits that the NHL offers.

Owners need players to make money from hockey; However, they do NOT need players to make money from all of the other businesses they are involved in.

The reality is that the NHL holds all the leverage and they have no problem digging in and canceling the season to eventually get to a point where they feel the CBA is fair.

Thats how I see it, and honestly at this point, judging by the tweets, the NHL is doing their due diligence before going into a long slumber and canceling the season. The NHLPA is completely lost in direction and guidance and instead of coming towards the middle, they ask for more. They can't keep offering delinked offers because, quite simply, the NHL has no use for those type of offers and will wait this out.

There's nothing to be positive about. They are meeting about pensions?

This thing will go off the rails very soon and this season is toast. The players are a bunch of ********** and they deserve to be hit hard. And I mean.. hard.

 

[rumrokh]

People who work construction dont make millions, they make alot, but their work is alot more dangerous, heavy and 24/7 than a guy who plays 20 minutes of hockey a few times a week.It's laughable the players are complaining about what is largely a 4-6% paycut right now, tiny in the long run, what is that, 50'000 of their salary for the year?

I do agree they deserve better rights on contracts though, as the NHL's offer is a little harsh, but I'm hoping they get something liek 8-10 yr limits etc.

I'm not saying this to contradict you, as I don't have proof in front of me one way or another; but a few years ago, I read a reputable stat that said professional hockey players' life expectancy is something like seven years shorter than average. I wouldn't doubt it's even shorter for construction workers, and, absolutely, death and permanent injury are a much more immediate concern for people who work construction. I'm just saying you shouldn't easily discount the toll that a high level contact sport takes on people.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If they are talking pensions, it means they are getting no where on the main issue. While they are meeting, may as well deal with the smaller issues I guess.

It might also simply be the most productive way to proceed, for two reasons:

1) The contract-rights issues frame the salary cuts. Apparently the meetings earlier this week were characterized by having too many items on the table. Once the smaller concessions are worked out, the value of the rest of the deal becomes clearer and easier to negotiate.

2) It's the path of least resistance. Nobody is walking away from the table over pensions. At worst, they'll put it on the shelf and move on to the next thing. The discussions will roll along faster this way, creating some understanding and momentum before they tackle the bigger issues.

This way, both sides are invested enough to actually want a deal by the time the big arguments come along. They might get mad and huff and puff about it, but once the rights issues are resolved the picture is clear enough that both sides see an end-game, and it really is just a matter of working toward the middle.

I would be absolutely shocked if they shut down negotiations at this point. The margin is just too small for it to make sense on either side.

 

[Hanklite*]

Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib
So far, no substantive talks between #nhl and #nhlpa talks today. Pension subcommittee's only. League waiting for Fehrs at 3:30 ET

*sigh*

Why is that sigh?

Just means all of these reports about no progress are bunk.

There havent even been talks yet... Their has been no responses from the league on the key issues.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think this is the best way to explain the leverage situation right now.

Players need the NHL to continue living the lifestyle that they have been living as no other league will provide them with the salaries and benefits that the NHL offers.

Owners need players to make money from hockey; However, they do NOT need players to make money from all of the other businesses they are involved in.

The reality is that the NHL holds all the leverage and they have no problem digging in and canceling the season to eventually get to a point where they feel the CBA is fair.

I think that's too simplistic. Of the two sides the NHL Owners have the best financial ability to withstand a lost season. But they are also businessmen and the cost of a lost season and possibly some fans in the future needs to be weighed against the gain of a better deal. And for certain owners, like for example the Canadian ones, this goes beyond dollars and cents. Many of these owners care about what the public thinks about them. I know for example, the Vancouver owner, likes the publicity that comes with being an owner of a popular sports franchise.

 

[Bruins71*]

Thats how I see it, and honestly at this point, judging by the tweets, the NHL is doing their due diligence before going into a long slumber and canceling the season. The NHLPA is completely lost in direction and guidance and instead of coming towards the middle, they ask for more. They can't keep offering delinked offers because, quite simply, the NHL has no use for those type of offers and will wait this out.

There's nothing to be positive about. They are meeting about pensions?

This thing will go off the rails very soon and this season is toast. The players are a bunch of ********** and they deserve to be hit hard. And I mean.. hard.

I agree 100% with you, but unfortunately you can only be hit so 'hard' when you've been making six figures for the past few years.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib
So far, no substantive talks between #nhl and #nhlpa talks today. Pension subcommittee's only. League waiting for Fehrs at 3:30 ET

*sigh*

Caught up. Keep the bold in mind before thinking doom. They're going to have sessions all day. Not over yet.