OT: And now we return to our regularly scheduled program

[Gras]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make aside from using fear by saying ANTIFA. Do you have any proof of "antifa" being behind the Seattle "autonomous" zone?

I thought "antifa" was supposed to be a violent terrorist group?
Can you point to any stories of people identifying as "antifa" being arrested for violent crimes or conspiracy to commit violent crimes?
How about the Boogaloo movement? Oh yeah, how about the 3 men who self-identified as Boogaloo boys who were planning to incite violence at protests and stopped with molotov cocktails?

Who declared sovereignty?
Why did the police abandon the district? The mayor did not tell them do. The police chief claims it was not her decision.
What does "a natural thing" mean in this context?

ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

You have to understand the history behind antifa to understand the current antifa.

 

[vcv]

ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

You have to understand the history behind antifa to understand the current antifa.

There are small pockets of loosely organized people that identify as ANTIFA, and appear to support or use violent tactics. There is a larger group that may identify as ANTIFA but don't support or use violent tactics.

What does any of this have to do with Seattle or the current protests around the country?

 

[Der Jaeger]

So you're unwilling to provide any sources?

I looked up the Gun Club you referenced and didn't find anything recently.

What groups? Is there a problem with groups or people organizing?

I told you I wouldn't because my sources are DoD internal. It's not unwilling, it's unable. It's out there, keep looking. You won't find the photos and interviews on MSM.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

And Andy Ngo... c'mon. He's a proven antagonist and has been caught lying.

Did he or did he not get assaulted on video by an antifa mob? Did his attackers not get charged for the assault?

 

[Gras]

There are small pockets of loosely organized people that identify as ANTIFA, and appear to support or use violent tactics. There is a larger group that may identify as ANTIFA but don't support or use violent tactics.

What does any of this have to do with Seattle or the current protests around the country?

The PNW is a hotbed for antifa types between Portland and Seattle, though the antifa types share some of the same political ideology as the people leading BLM, they do have their own political agendas favoring a specific ideology.

History is repeating itself

The first organization known as Antifa, Antifaschistische Aktion, was established by the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) based on the principle of a Communist front, and its establishment was announced in the party's newspaper Die Rote Fahne (The Red Flag) in 1932; as such it functioned as an integral part of the KPD during its entire existence from 1932 to 1933.[8] A member of the Comintern, KPD under the leadership of Ernst Thälmann was loyal to the Soviet government headed by Joseph Stalin to the extent that the party had been directly controlled and funded by the Soviet leadership in Moscow since 1928.[9][8] The KPD described Antifaschistische Aktion as a "red united front under the leadership of the only anti-fascist party, the KPD".[10] The KPD had proclaimed that it was "the only anti-fascist party" during the elections of 1930.[9]

The KPD did not view "fascism" as a specific political movement, but primarily as the final stage of capitalism, and "anti-fascism" was therefore synonymous with anti-capitalism; unlike the situation in Italy no party regarded itself as "fascist" in Weimar-era Germany. Throughout the Weimar era the KPD regarded the centre-left Social Democratic Party (SPD) as its main adversary;[8] the KPD considered the SPD to be "social fascists" based on a theory proclaimed by Stalin and supported by the Comintern in the early 1930s, according to which social democracy was a variant of fascism, and even more dangerous and insidious than open fascism.[8] Thälmann "took his instructions from Stalin and his hatred of the SPD was essentially ideological".[11] In his sympathetic history of the Antifa movement, published by the Association for the Promotion of Antifascist Culture, Bernd Langer notes that "antifascism was always a fundamentally anti-capitalist strategy" and that "communists always took antifascism to mean anti-capitalism. Therefore all other parties were fascist in the opinion of the KPD, and especially the SPD."[12] A KPD resolution for instance described the social democrats, referred to as "social fascists", as the "main pillar of the dictatorship of Capital".[13] Consequently, "anti-fascism" in the language of the KPD and its new activist wing, the Antifaschistische Aktion, also included the struggle against the social democrats;[8] the KPD had stated that "fighting fascism means fighting the SPD just as much as it means fighting Hitler and the parties of Brüning".[14]

 

[vcv]

I told you I wouldn't because my sources are DoD internal. It's not unwilling, it's unable. It's out there, keep looking. You won't find the photos and interviews on MSM.

You're saying there are public sources but are unwilling to provide them, so uh... no. I won't "keep looking" to make your argument for you.

 

[Der Jaeger]

You're saying there are public sources but are unwilling to provide them, so uh... no. I won't "keep looking" to make your argument for you.

Cool, put your head in the sand and keep regurgitating things you learn off facebook.

 

[vcv]

Did he or did he not get assaulted on video by an antifa mob? Did his attackers not get charged for the assault?

Yes, he got assaulted. By an antifa mob? I have no idea because sources are all over the place. Ngo himself is not a reliable source.

But I'm interested in ANTIFA in context of the current protests.

The PNW is a hotbed for antifa types between Portland and Seattle, though the antifa types share some of the same political ideology as the people leading BLM, they do have their own political agendas favoring a specific ideology.

Right. These protests are part of the BLM movement. If there has been any intersection with ANTIFA, it's been very rare. But that doesn't appear to stop people from trying to blame ANTIFA for any looting or violence and trying to confuse the issues.

History is repeating itself

The first organization known as Antifa, Antifaschistische Aktion, was established by the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) based on the principle of a Communist front, and its establishment was announced in the party's newspaper Die Rote Fahne (The Red Flag) in 1932; as such it functioned as an integral part of the KPD during its entire existence from 1932 to 1933.[8] A member of the Comintern, KPD under the leadership of Ernst Thälmann was loyal to the Soviet government headed by Joseph Stalin to the extent that the party had been directly controlled and funded by the Soviet leadership in Moscow since 1928.[9][8] The KPD described Antifaschistische Aktion as a "red united front under the leadership of the only anti-fascist party, the KPD".[10] The KPD had proclaimed that it was "the only anti-fascist party" during the elections of 1930.[9]

The KPD did not view "fascism" as a specific political movement, but primarily as the final stage of capitalism, and "anti-fascism" was therefore synonymous with anti-capitalism; unlike the situation in Italy no party regarded itself as "fascist" in Weimar-era Germany. Throughout the Weimar era the KPD regarded the centre-left Social Democratic Party (SPD) as its main adversary;[8] the KPD considered the SPD to be "social fascists" based on a theory proclaimed by Stalin and supported by the Comintern in the early 1930s, according to which social democracy was a variant of fascism, and even more dangerous and insidious than open fascism.[8] Thälmann "took his instructions from Stalin and his hatred of the SPD was essentially ideological".[11] In his sympathetic history of the Antifa movement, published by the Association for the Promotion of Antifascist Culture, Bernd Langer notes that "antifascism was always a fundamentally anti-capitalist strategy" and that "communists always took antifascism to mean anti-capitalism. Therefore all other parties were fascist in the opinion of the KPD, and especially the SPD."[12] A KPD resolution for instance described the social democrats, referred to as "social fascists", as the "main pillar of the dictatorship of Capital".[13] Consequently, "anti-fascism" in the language of the KPD and its new activist wing, the Antifaschistische Aktion, also included the struggle against the social democrats;[8] the KPD had stated that "fighting fascism means fighting the SPD just as much as it means fighting Hitler and the parties of Brüning".[14]

I'm aware of the history. There is a separation of almost 100 years here. Antifa* Aktion was an actual organization with leadership structure with defined goals.

Modern ANTIFA is a fairly loose movement with different groups of people/movements co-opting the name for their own objectives. Some with hard-core anti-capitalist views and violent views. Some more focused on really being "anti-fascist".

But again, what's ANTIFA have to do with the current protests, aside from maybe (still waiting for sources) some people or small groups of people identifying as ANTIFA trying to co-opt the BLM movement for their own nefarious purposes?

 

[vcv]

Cool, put your head in the sand and keep regurgitating things you learn off facebook.

What an embarrassing post. I'm willing to read your sources and let that shape my views. You're refusing to provide them and trying to paint that as me putting my head in the sand, because supposedly "they're out there" and I just need to look harder. Then garbage about facebook, presuming to know where I get my information.

You know what that sounds like? Conspiracy theorists who claim the information is out there and people refuse to see it, but can't provide any remotely reliable source.

Come on man.

 

[Der Jaeger]

What an embarrassing post. I'm willing to read your sources and let that shape my views. You're refusing to provide them and trying to paint that as me putting my head in the sand, because supposedly "they're out there" and I just need to look harder. Then garbage about facebook, presuming to know where I get my information.

You know what that sounds like? Conspiracy theorists who claim the information is out there and people refuse to see it, but can't provide any remotely reliable source.

Come on man.

I'm going to end here. I work for the US DOD. I'm not posting sources which indicate where we look.

I hope this ends well for those kids. They've certainly got a lot of attention at the federal level.

 

[cybresabre]

officially, no. This is a hockey board.

Of course it's a hockey board. I've only heard "antifa" being mentioned by those with advertising/political points to be gained by working people into a fervor, so it struck me as odd to see it legitimized as a threat from someone on the inside. It's for my edification, not trying to box you in or anything.

 

[Gras]

Yes, he got assaulted. By an antifa mob? I have no idea because sources are all over the place. Ngo himself is not a reliable source.

But I'm interested in ANTIFA in context of the current protests.

Right. These protests are part of the BLM movement. If there has been any intersection with ANTIFA, it's been very rare. But that doesn't appear to stop people from trying to blame ANTIFA for any looting or violence and trying to confuse the issues.

I'm aware of the history. There is a separation of almost 100 years here. Antifa* Aktion was an actual organization with leadership structure with defined goals.

Modern ANTIFA is a fairly loose movement with different groups of people/movements co-opting the name for their own objectives. Some with hard-core anti-capitalist views and violent views. Some more focused on really being "anti-fascist".

But again, what's ANTIFA have to do with the current protests, aside from maybe (still waiting for sources) some people or small groups of people identifying as ANTIFA trying to co-opt the BLM movement for their own nefarious purposes?

The BLM groups already share some of the same marxist ideology and use marxist iconography in their promotional materials and during their protests. BLM just doesn't have the same violent tendencies as the antifa groups.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

I'm going to end here. I work for the US DOD. I'm not posting sources which indicate where we look.

I hope this ends well for those kids. They've certainly got a lot of attention at the federal level.

I'm left wondering if Jaeger is Q??!!

 

[Der Jaeger]

Of course it's a hockey board. I've only heard "antifa" being mentioned by those with advertising/political points to be gained by working people into a fervor, so it struck me as odd to see it legitimized as a threat from someone on the inside. It's for my edification, not trying to box you in or anything.

I wouldn't sign up for your Antifa membership this season.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'm left wondering if Jaeger is Q??!!

Nah, I'm not really into research and development. I'd rather be a 00# and play with the toys.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

Nah, I'm not really into research and development. I'd rather be a 00# and play with the toys.

Haha, but i was alluding to "Q" as in QAnon - the "government insider" leaving morsels of information for right-wing conspiracy theorist to gather up and assemble for themselves.

 

[Gras]

Haha, but i was alluding to "Q" as in QAnon - the "government insider" leaving morsels of information for right-wing conspiracy theorist to gather up and assemble for themselves.

 

[MayDay]

Haha, but i was alluding to "Q" as in QAnon - the "government insider" leaving morsels of information for right-wing conspiracy theorist to gather up and assemble for themselves.

There can be only one.

 

[brian_griffin]

It is definitely going to be something where local laws vary widely, I would bet.

To be clear, it's policy, not law.

Question for anyone with knowledge of NYS unemployment: I got called back to work next week but will have reduced hours. I recall hearing that you can continue to collect partial unemployment if you are working reduced hours (called being Underemployed). Is this correct, and if so how does it work?

I know my company colleagues in NYS who are furloughed from a nominal 40hr week to 32 hr week are eligible to apply for some form of unemployment benefit for those 8 hours until some time in July (unless / until that benefit date is extended). I'm pretty sure my salaried non-exempt (i.e., hourly administrative and technical not exempt from overtime labor laws) colleagues are eligible as well.

 

[brian_griffin]

I'm left wondering if Jaeger is Q??!!

In biblical scholarship, Q is also used to denote a common-author source for some of the synoptic gospels.

 

[Buffaloed]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make aside from using fear by saying ANTIFA. Do you have any proof of "antifa" being behind the Seattle "autonomous" zone?

For sure there's some Antifa elements to it, but it's mainly the radical left which is much much bigger. It's McCarthyism all over again. It's an attempt to label anyone with liberal leanings as Antifa or as an Antifa sympathizer. It makes it much easier to treat them as bad, undesirable people once they have that label and use federal resources to crush them.
Federal Arrests Show No Sign That Antifa Plotted Protests

A review of the arrests of dozens of people on federal charges reveals no known effort by antifa to perpetrate a coordinated campaign of violence. Some criminal complaints described vague, anti-government political leanings among suspects, but a majority of the violent acts that have taken place at protests have been attributed by federal prosecutors to individuals with no affiliation to any particular group.

 

[sabremike]

Breaking News: The Giraffe Uprising has conquered a 6 block area including Key Bank Arena and have proclaimed it The People's Republic of TAGE. I for one welcome our new giraffe overlords!

 

[Gras]

For sure there's some Antifa elements to it, but it's mainly the radical left which is much much bigger. It's McCarthyism all over again. It's an attempt to label anyone with liberal leanings as Antifa or as an Antifa sympathizer. It makes it much easier to treat them as bad, undesirable people once they have that label and use federal resources to crush them.
Federal Arrests Show No Sign That Antifa Plotted Protests

A review of the arrests of dozens of people on federal charges reveals no known effort by antifa to perpetrate a coordinated campaign of violence. Some criminal complaints described vague, anti-government political leanings among suspects, but a majority of the violent acts that have taken place at protests have been attributed by federal prosecutors to individuals with no affiliation to any particular group.

I doubt Trump goes fill Pinochet on them though.

 

[brian_griffin]

But I'm interested in ANTIFA in context of the current protests.

Right. These protests are part of the BLM movement. If there has been any intersection with ANTIFA, it's been very rare. But that doesn't appear to stop people from trying to blame ANTIFA for any looting or violence and trying to confuse the issues.

I'm aware of the history. There is a separation of almost 100 years here. Antifa* Aktion was an actual organization with leadership structure with defined goals.

Modern ANTIFA is a fairly loose movement with different groups of people/movements co-opting the name for their own objectives. Some with hard-core anti-capitalist views and violent views. Some more focused on really being "anti-fascist".

But again, what's ANTIFA have to do with the current protests, aside from maybe (still waiting for sources) some people or small groups of people identifying as ANTIFA trying to co-opt the BLM movement for their own nefarious purposes?

Many nations, the USA among them, as well as factions and groups not in seats of power around the globe, have recruited, trained, funded, planned, and led insurrections from the shadows and/or leveraged such actions. The overt linkages aren't always widely publicly known until later, long after the general public has accepted the straightforward apparent reality.

I'm an ordinary guy who doesn't surf the internet from a naked-bulbed basement corner seeking conspiracies (Haha - our house has no basement). But if I wanted to foment violent overthrow or an overthrow under the guise of peaceful change, here's some easy things (off the top of my head) I'd want:
1. An appearance of a rather leaderless organization, or have apparent leaders in place who could be replaced in the event of their untimely death, while the true leaders remain in the shadows.
2. Willingly or unwillingly complicit media who will spread an appealing message of change, but not the whole truth because it is intentionally kept from them.
3. One or more intentional setups, where I plant easily debunked evidence my organization is behind actions it is not. That way, any future assertions / attributions of malfeasance to me / my true organization will be met with skepticism, if not outright dismissal.
4. First dibs on my alias name: Roger Kint.

I wouldn't sign up for your Antifa membership this season.

I read the linked CHAZ demands someone posted above. Not one damn statement about NHL expansion, so I really REALLY can't support them.

 

[Der Jaeger]

For sure there's some Antifa elements to it, but it's mainly the radical left which is much much bigger. It's McCarthyism all over again. It's an attempt to label anyone with liberal leanings as Antifa or as an Antifa sympathizer. It makes it much easier to treat them as bad, undesirable people once they have that label and use federal resources to crush them.
Federal Arrests Show No Sign That Antifa Plotted Protests

A review of the arrests of dozens of people on federal charges reveals no known effort by antifa to perpetrate a coordinated campaign of violence. Some criminal complaints described vague, anti-government political leanings among suspects, but a majority of the violent acts that have taken place at protests have been attributed by federal prosecutors to individuals with no affiliation to any particular group.

So, a group with a documented violent past hasn't been detected in Austin, LA, and Minneapolis. And most of the arrests aren't complete in terms of investigations. Not exactly soldi proof.

BTW, it's not just them. A lot of groups have stake in this, and groups from both sides of the political spectrum are involved. None of it's very helpful.