OT: And now we return to our regularly scheduled program

[Jim Bob]

An unbiased thorough examination of police spending is long overdue-although it is not the only agency or department that needs this. (See $ supposedly spent for hammers or toilets in some defence budgets) Since the rich already have their body guards or" posses" they will not be the most affected by this. Spending money on prevention is a great idea if folks can agree on how to do it--throwing money at social issues while in principle a worthwhile consideration will depend on what issues, what remedies and who is in charge of the spending. Removing police from dealing with social ills of drug induced situations, the mentally disturbed, and tense domestic situations--a large part of their mandate it seems-will put more medically trained personnel and/or social workers into the often danger filled situations that police are routinely called to. I assume those responding will not require police aid in addition to their own professional presence. Whether this attempt at triaging possible felonious events will work will be a matter of discovery. Certainly there is no need for military grade weapons for every policing force but to call to disarm police because that is the case in UK or Japan for example fails to note that those countries do not for example allow civilians to walk around freely carrying loaded guns. None of the foregoing is to suggest that budget review and possible budget cutting need not be examined. But it is not as simplistic as some propose.

Why Are the Police in Charge of Road Safety? - Marginal REVOLUTION

This article really made me think about ways that policing can evolve in the future to reduce the number of interactions with the citizenry that ends in violence towards either party.

Having fewer police officers carrying sidearms and having things set up where we don't default to armed police officers responding to situations that don't require an armed response.

For instance, send a social worker to a report of rape and not armed officers who are more likely to intimidate the victim.

 

[hizzoner]

I cannot speak to how all police or agencies respond to rape situations. Many police agencies do have empathetic and well trained officers who team with health personnel in the initial stages of investigations. As a prosecutor I appreciated the care taken to ensure not only that the victim was attended to with care but also that evidence was properly collected and preserved (including chain of continuity) to ensure admissibility. The scene of crime is important. The initial statements of the victim and witnesses-before they are answering to leading or misleading statements-is important.That is why detectives often respond if the nature of the call is known and it is not a "live situation" where the closest uniformed officer is required. Detectives-and many are women-do not display their firearms when they arrive on scene. With the average guy in many states able to own and flaunt his weaponry I think disarming the police might create problems.

 

[Jim Bob]

I cannot speak to how all police or agencies respond to rape situations. Many police agencies do have empathetic and well trained officers who team with health personnel in the initial stages of investigations. As a prosecutor I appreciated the care taken to ensure not only that the victim was attended to with care but also that evidence was properly collected and preserved (including chain of continuity) to ensure admissibility. The scene of crime is important. The initial statements of the victim and witnesses-before they are answering to leading or misleading statements-is important.That is why detectives often respond if the nature of the call is known and it is not a "live situation" where the closest uniformed officer is required. Detectives-and many are women-do not display their firearms when they arrive on scene. With the average guy in many states able to own and flaunt his weaponry I think disarming the police might create problems.

My idea is disarming some, but not all, police officers.

The traffic control officers not carrying firearms is one idea that I believe would be worth trying.

Figuring out ways to change the "us vs them" mentality that exists for both police and segments of the citizenry is needed.

A Minneapolis Police Officer Opens Up About the Toxic Culture Inside the Department

 

[brian_griffin]

@hizzoner @Jim Bob

FWIW where I live, unless policy / procedure has changed since two of my friends retired from DSS a few years ago (staggered by a few years after 30+ years for each of them), IIRC all DSS response calls of certain categories to a residence, whether a home or an apartment, public or private, are required to be offered uniformed officer accompaniment. Depending on the case history and DSS agent comfort, DSS agent decides whether it's done as either a ride-along, or arrive in separate vehicles, and whether the officer accompanies to door threshold. I'm pretty sure there are categories where caseworker ride-along and office at/across the door threshold is required.

 

[Jim Bob]

@hizzoner @Jim Bob

FWIW where I live, unless policy / procedure has changed since two of my friends retired from DSS a few years ago (staggered by a few years after 30+ years for each of them), IIRC all DSS response calls of certain categories to a residence, whether a home or an apartment, public or private, are required to be offered uniformed officer accompaniment. Depending on the case history and DSS agent comfort, DSS agent decides whether it's done as either a ride-along, or arrive in separate vehicles, and whether the officer accompanies to door threshold. I'm pretty sure there are categories where caseworker ride-along and office at/across the door threshold is required.

It is definitely going to be something where local laws vary widely, I would bet.

 

[Gras]

The demands coming out of the CHAZ

 

[sabremike]

Question for anyone with knowledge of NYS unemployment: I got called back to work next week but will have reduced hours. I recall hearing that you can continue to collect partial unemployment if you are working reduced hours (called being Underemployed). Is this correct, and if so how does it work?

 

[SackTastic]

Question for anyone with knowledge of NYS unemployment: I got called back to work next week but will have reduced hours. I recall hearing that you can continue to collect partial unemployment if you are working reduced hours (called being Underemployed). Is this correct, and if so how does it work?

In the past, if you were taking home less than the max weekly benefit and working less than 4 days in a week, you qualified for partial unemployment. Essentially each day that you worked, they reduced the weekly benefit by 25%.

I have no idea how the additional federal $600 factors in though right now.

 

[Buffaloed]

Jimmy Buffett Live Stream

 

[Der Jaeger]

Hope those kids in Seattle have a game plan. Antifa is playing in the big league now.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Hope those kids in Seattle have a game plan. Antifa is playing in the big league now.

I doubt it, they're in the 'oh crap, I never thought they would cave like that' zone. They keep it up they run up against the support and defend versus all enemies both foreign and domestic

 

[Buffaloed]

My idea is disarming some, but not all, police officers.

The traffic control officers not carrying firearms is one idea that I believe would be worth trying.

Figuring out ways to change the "us vs them" mentality that exists for both police and segments of the citizenry is needed.

A Minneapolis Police Officer Opens Up About the Toxic Culture Inside the Department

This article is almost 10 years old. It's as true today as it was then. Probably even more so because the culture that developed is firmly rooted.

How the War on Terror Has Militarized the Police

The most serious consequence of the rapid militarization of American police forces, however, is the subtle evolution in the mentality of the "men in blue" from "peace officer" to soldier. This development is absolutely critical and represents a fundamental change in the nature of law enforcement. The primary mission of a police officer traditionally has been to "keep the peace." Those whom an officer suspects to have committed a crime are treated as just that—suspects. Police officers are expected, under the rule of law, to protect the civil liberties of all citizens, even the "bad guys." For domestic law enforcement, a suspect in custody remains innocent until proven guilty. Moreover, police officers operate among a largely friendly population and have traditionally been trained to solve problems using a complex legal system; the deployment of lethal violence is an absolute last resort.

People used to be able to approach and tell them a problem whether it was about drug dealer on the street or someone breaking into cars. We've reached the point where a lot of people fear the police as much as they do the criminals. If we're going to change the culture we start by taking their military toys away so they're not spending their time preparing for WW III.

 

[cybresabre]

um, are you saying in an official manner that it is actually antifa, Jaeger?

 

[Der Jaeger]

um, are you saying in an official manner that it is actually antifa, Jaeger?

officially, no. This is a hockey board.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I doubt it, they're in the 'oh crap, I never thought they would cave like that' zone. They keep it up they run up against the support and defend versus all enemies both foreign and domestic

As you know, Declaring sovereignty is not something to take lightly. It changes the legality of things.

Those that declared it now, at the UN level, can be charged with crimes, and could be considered subject to international law.

It also means that the US government is well within its rights and the law to invoke the insurrection act.

Hope those kids know what they are doing. They just swam into the deep end.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Hope those kids know what they are doing. They just swam into the deep end.

I doubt they understand the full ramifications of their actions. They're too used to weak willed politicians kowtowing in order to mitigate situations, this is a direct assault on US sovereignty and runs the risk of inspiring more insurgencies in other liberal cities.
I fear this will escalate further because Inslee hardly even acknowledges the situation, for all intents and purposes abdicating his authority. It'd be interesting to see what's happening on Ft Ord if the 10th Mountain is still there. Just a hop, skip and a jump from Monterey to Seattle

 

[Der Jaeger]

I doubt they understand the full ramifications of their actions. They're too used to weak willed politicians kowtowing in order to mitigate situations, this is a direct assault on US sovereignty and runs the risk of inspiring more insurgencies in other liberal cities.
I fear this will escalate further because Inslee hardly even acknowledges the situation, for all intents and purposes abdicating his authority. It'd be interesting to see what's happening on Ft Ord if the 10th Mountain is still there. Just a hop, skip and a jump from Monterey to Seattle

10th Mountain is at Fort Drum in NY now. The 81st Infantry Brigade (National Guard) is headquartered in Seattle, and two of its infantry battalions are in Washington State.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

10th Mountain is at Fort Drum in NY now. The 81st Infantry Brigade (National Guard) is headquartered in Seattle, and two of its infantry battalions are in Washington State.

They were at Ft Ord back in '92 when I was at DLI, but I can't profess to follow the Army unit disposition especially after my retirement

 

[Der Jaeger]

They were at Ft Ord back in '92 when I was at DLI, but I can't profess to follow the Army unit disposition especially after my retirement

BRAC consolidated us a lot. Ord is a guard base now. And we moved the 10th Mountain to Drum, which is basically a swamp.

 

[vcv]

Hope those kids in Seattle have a game plan. Antifa is playing in the big league now.

Yeah? So how did that planned attack on the East district precinct go? How much violence has there been in that area that police have now abandoned?

hUrR dUrR iT's aNtiFa.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Yeah? So how did that planned attack on the East district precinct go? How much violence has there been in that area that police have now abandoned?

hUrR dUrR iT's aNtiFa.

If you think this movement was a natural thing, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Declaring sovereignty from the US has nothing to do with activities after. If the "Boogaloo Boys" did this in downtown Buffalo, would you care how peaceful they were?

 

[vcv]

If you think this movement was a natural thing, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Declaring sovereignty from the US has nothing to do with activities after. If the "Boogaloo Boys" did this in downtown Buffalo, would you care how peaceful they were?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make aside from using fear by saying ANTIFA. Do you have any proof of "antifa" being behind the Seattle "autonomous" zone?

I thought "antifa" was supposed to be a violent terrorist group?
Can you point to any stories of people identifying as "antifa" being arrested for violent crimes or conspiracy to commit violent crimes?
How about the Boogaloo movement? Oh yeah, how about the 3 men who self-identified as Boogaloo boys who were planning to incite violence at protests and stopped with molotov cocktails?

Who declared sovereignty?
Why did the police abandon the district? The mayor did not tell them do. The police chief claims it was not her decision.
What does "a natural thing" mean in this context?

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make aside from using fear by saying ANTIFA. Do you have any proof of "antifa" being behind the Seattle "autonomous" zone? I thought "antifa" was supposed to be a violent terrorist group?

Who declared sovereignty?
Why did the police abandon the district? The mayor did not tell them do. The police chief claims it was not her decision.
What does "a natural thing" mean in this context?

My sources are DoD, but it's in open source. You can find it. You can find news about the John Brown Fun Club as well if you look.

The occupation of the district didn't just "happen." After police, and the Army Guard (they have an armory in that district) left, groups moved in and took charge.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I thought "antifa" was supposed to be a violent terrorist group?
Can you point to any stories of people identifying as "antifa" being arrested for violent crimes or conspiracy to commit violent crimes?

There's been plenty of antifa members arrested for violent attacks. Recently you had the attack on Andy Ngo, the assault on the Marines in Philly.
Antifa activist facing assault charges was tied to Democratic policymakers

 

[vcv]

My sources are DoD, but it's in open source. You can find it. You can find news about the John Brown Fun Club as well if you look.

So you're unwilling to provide any sources?

I looked up the Gun Club you referenced and didn't find anything recently.

The occupation of the district didn't just "happen." After police, and the Army Guard (they have an armory in that district) left, groups moved in and took charge.

What groups? Is there a problem with groups or people organizing?

There's been plenty of antifa members arrested for violent attacks. Recently you had the attack on Andy Ngo, the assault on the Marines in Philly.
Antifa activist facing assault charges was tied to Democratic policymakers

Have any of them self-identified as ANTIFA?

I was more interested in any antifa activity related to this latest round of protests.

And Andy Ngo... c'mon. He's a proven antagonist and has been caught lying.