Analyzing Dubas's performance - (Full Analysis)

[LeafsNation75]

While bringing in Plekanec was a brutal move, passing on McDonagh looks like a good miss.

That's easy to say with hindsight because I think the cost was at least their 2018 1st round pick which means not drafting Rasmus Sandin and Timothy Liljegren who the Rangers also wanted.

The problem was McDonagh gets traded to Tampa Bay and is apart of the Atlantic Division.

However either way Lou wasn't willing to make a trade like that to help their defense, where as Dubas was the next season when he traded for Jake Muzzin.

 

[ACC1224]

Take a look at the non-lottery draft picks our rivals made and compare them to ours during the Lou period.

How many Zaitsev/Marleau contracts did Boston sign? Tampa?

Not to mention the years of mediocrity despite having 3 stars on ELC deals.

Lou was bad in a lot of ways which aren't obvious. Lost opportunities and a general stagnation while our rivals grew stronger.

Seems like he accelerated things a bit more than setting it back.
People are describing this team as a 'great playoff team' which is crazy but I would say hardly mediocre.
All teams end up with bad contracts, how they can be dealt with is the key.

 

[ottomaddox]

While bringing in Plekanec was a brutal move, passing on McDonagh looks like a good miss.

I love McDonagh, but the trade had a crazy amount of players/assets moved:
To TBL
McDonagh
J.T. Miller

To NYR
Vladislav Namestnikov
2018 1st round pick
2019 conditional 2nd round pick
Libor Hajek
Brett Howden

 

[ACC1224]

That's easy to say with hindsight because I think the cost was at least their 2018 1st round pick which means not drafting Rasmus Sandin and Timothy Liljegren who the Rangers also wanted.

The problem was McDonagh gets traded to Tampa Bay and is apart of the Atlantic Division.

However either way Lou wasn't willing to make a trade like that to help their defense, where as Dubas was the next season when he traded for Jake Muzzin.

To sum up, not making a bad trade is bad?

 

[LeafsNation75]

To sum up, not making a bad trade is bad?

It depends on the player involved. There was pros at the time to trading for McDonagh and the cons are easy to say afterwards like not being able to draft Sandin if they trade their 1st round pick for him.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Maybe that's true, but did TOR have the assets to get McDonagh? Perhaps The NYR decided that they liked Tampa's assets more.

Since we never got a direct answer from Lou about anything when it came to potential trades, all I remember is the media reporting how Toronto was in on McDonagh and for whatever reason the Rangers decided to trade him to Tampa Bay.

 

[ottomaddox]

Lou set Toronto back multiple years by handcuffing them to middle roster players on awful deals despite the need to sign key RFAs.

He's now doing the same to the Islanders. That Islander core had so much promise even post Tavares moving, and now it's just swamped with ugly contracts.

You mean 1 middle roster player?

 

[ACC1224]

It depends on the player involved. There was pros at the time to trading for McDonagh and the cons are easy to say afterwards like not being able to draft Sandin if they trade their 1st round pick for him.

I’m off this ride. You’re not making any sense.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I’m off this ride. You’re not making any sense.

You agreed that it didn't make sense for Toronto to trade for Tomas Plekanec because he didn't fill a need. Someone like Ryan McDonagh would have filled a need for help on the Leafs defense. However looking at what they would have had to give up to the Rangers, some people might say it could be better they didn't end up trading for him.

 

[ACC1224]

You agreed that it didn't make sense for Toronto to trade for Tomas Plekanec because he didn't fill a need. Someone like Ryan McDonagh would have filled a need for help on the Leafs defense. However looking at what they would have had to give up to the Rangers, some people might say it could be better they didn't end up trading for him.

Was it a mistake not to bring in a defenseman at this deadline?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Was it a mistake not to bring in a defenseman at this deadline?

You can say it was when you look at the injuries to Rielly, Muzzin, and Ceci. Plus it was bad luck that Muzzin got injured in their first game after the trade deadline, because Ceci didn't return until their game against Anaheim on March 6th and Rielly returned against Tampa Bay on the 10th. So maybe Dubas knew they were close to returning and that was his reasons. Although to be fair he did trade Michael Hutchinson to Colorado and re-acquired Calle Rosen. So despite that being a minor trade at least it was more than Lou did not addressing their defense at the 2018 deadline.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Seems like he accelerated things a bit more than setting it back.
People are describing this team as a 'great playoff team' which is crazy but I would say hardly mediocre.
All teams end up with bad contracts, how they can be dealt with is the key.

I guess you could somewhat compare Marleau to how Boston did with Backes. Would you rather pay a 2nd + 3rd but also retain 1.5-2 mill on Marleau's deal instead of the 1st? Looking at the value of Boston's trade to dump Backes and get Kase, that is effectively what they did.

Keep in mind that retaining 1.5-2 mill likely still means we trade Johnsson or Kapanen, unless we bridged Marner.

 

[baton elevated]

Anybody know how to get rid of that annoying "infolink popup"?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Was it a mistake not to bring in a defenseman at this deadline?

One could argue that Dubas did not need to because he already made moves to improve the defense in the offseason (and last year with Muzzin) and it was showing results.

The price to upgrade a defense which consisted of Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci, Dermott and Holl was likely not paying, because 1) There were not a ton of available defensemen out there which were noticeable upgrades on any of those guys and 2) It was already a pretty solid group despite major injuries.

Whereas some are wondering why Lou thought it made more sense to trade a 2nd round pick for Plekanec to be a 4C when you could have paid a 3rd to get a guy like Ian Cole, who was a 4/5 who could have helped a defense that was far worse than the one we currently have. I am not really sure whether the question is whether it was a mistake, but rather questioning his priorities and thought process?

 

[Blue Nate]

Anybody know how to get rid of that annoying "infolink popup"?

Pi-hole

 

[LeafsNation75]

I guess you could somewhat compare Marleau to how Boston did with Backes. Would you rather pay a 2nd + 3rd but also retain 1.5-2 mill on Marleau's deal instead of the 1st? Looking at the value of Boston's trade to dump Backes and get Kase, that is effectively what they did.

Keep in mind that retaining 1.5-2 mill likely still means we trade Johnsson or Kapanen, unless we bridged Marner.

The major difference is when Boston traded Backes to Anaheim he was still playing for them after the trade.

Carolina only traded for Marleau to buyout the final year of his contract since they got Toronto's 2020 1st round pick for doing that.

 

[ACC1224]

One could argue that Dubas did not need to because he already made moves to improve the defense in the offseason (and last year with Muzzin) and it was showing results.

The price to upgrade a defense which consisted of Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci, Dermott and Holl was likely not paying, because 1) There were not a ton of available defensemen out there which were noticeable upgrades on any of those guys and 2) It was already a pretty solid group despite major injuries.

Whereas some are wondering why Lou thought it made more sense to trade a 2nd round pick for Plekanec to be a 4C when you could have paid a 3rd to get a guy like Ian Cole, who was a 4/5 who could have helped a defense that was far worse than the one we currently have. I am not really sure whether the question is whether it was a mistake, but rather questioning his priorities and thought process?

Neither made sense IMO.
I don’t spend any time worrying about why ex employees did what they did.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Neither made sense IMO.
I don’t spend any time worrying about why ex employees did what they did.

The thing is Lou's signing of Marleau did effect the Leafs in the future despite him no longer being the GM and moving onto the Islanders. So that's one reason to be worried about what an ex employee did.

 

[ACC1224]

The thing is Lou's signing of Marleau did effect the Leafs in the future despite him no longer being the GM and moving onto the Islanders. So that's one reason to be worried about what an ex employee did,

I’m saying I don’t worry about it. You’re more than welcome to.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I’m saying I don’t worry about it.

Your numerous posts going after Dubas for the necessary actions to deal with the consequences of it seem to imply otherwise.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’m saying I don’t worry about it. You’re more than welcome to.

Your numerous posts going after Dubas for the necessary actions to deal with the consequences of it seem to imply otherwise.

He's got you there buddy.

 

[Merrrlin]

Is it safe to say that no matter how you feel about Lou and Dubas first couple years...this coming off season will be absolutely crucial if Dubas' wants to cement himself as a long term GM here in Toronto?

So many big decisions on the horizon.

• A lacklustre playoffs will really put the spotlight on the D and the big contracts.
  
• How does he deal with Freddy?
• What does a flat cap mean for his next couple years planning?
• How does he prepare for the expansion draft?
• Cupboard is getting a bit bare once Robertson and Sandin are up - does he address with roster moves or does he try to fill it again naturally through keeping his picks?
• Is Keefe a keeper?

I still feel confident in his ability to lead the Leafs - I have since he brought Tavares over here. I will say that we're starting to get to that point where you are no longer connected to the past. It's his baby now. This playoffs is a bit weird but I am very interested in how he handles the new cap environment.

 

[ACC1224]

Is it safe to say that no matter how you feel about Lou and Dubas first couple years...this coming off season will be absolutely crucial if Dubas' wants to cement himself as a long term GM here in Toronto?

So many big decisions on the horizon.

• A lacklustre playoffs will really put the spotlight on the D and the big contracts.
  
• How does he deal with Freddy?
• What does a flat cap mean for his next couple years planning?
• How does he prepare for the expansion draft?
• Cupboard is getting a bit bare once Robertson and Sandin are up - does he address with roster moves or does he try to fill it again naturally through keeping his picks?
• Is Keefe a keeper?

I still feel confident in his ability to lead the Leafs - I have since he brought Tavares over here. I will say that we're starting to get to that point where you are no longer connected to the past. It's his baby now. This playoffs is a bit weird but I am very interested in how he handles the new cap environment.

It's about freakin time!

 

[Martin Skoula]

I love McDonagh, but the trade had a crazy amount of players/assets moved:
To TBL
McDonagh
J.T. Miller

To NYR
Vladislav Namestnikov
2018 1st round pick
2019 conditional 2nd round pick
Libor Hajek
Brett Howden

JT Miller was moved for a 1st, so the deal we're left with is roughly:

McDonagh for Namestnikov, conditional 2nd, recent 2nd, recent 27th OA.

If we had saved the 2 2nd rounders we spent on 4th line rentals, all we'd have needed to add is our first or a prospect they liked. Lou could have had a borderline #1/high end #2 for basically the same price we paid for Muzzin. Instead we got 3 months of Boyle and 3 months of a non-NHL caliber Plekanec.

 

[The CyNick]

Honest question are you even a Leafs fan? A lot of your posts are just bashing them and saying how bad they are.

Also if Dubas had nothing to do assembling their young core neither does Lamoriello. He wasn't their GM when Nylander and Marner were drafted. Now before you say he was the GM when they drafted Matthews, it didn't take a genius to select him 1st overall.

Finally your reply is another example of not wanting to give Dubas any credit, like signing Tavares. Why don't you just become an Islanders fan post on their boards with TWS.

Been a fan of the Leafs long before Dubas, will be a Leafs fan long after Dubas.