Analyzing Dubas's performance - (Full Analysis)

[LeafsNation75]

Great. Not sure what your point is ?

My point is when multiple Hockey Insiders report on the day Patrick Marleau signed for 3 years and saying it was a mistake to give him 3 years, that was a huge mistake from Lou Lamoriello which turned out to be true. So I will say again that was long before anyone thought of John Tavares signing as a UFA and the contract extensions for Matthews and Marner.

 

[Leafs87]

He’s okay. Green I guess. The Tavares signing really set an awful precedence for the team cap.

 

[hotpaws]

My point is when multiple Hockey Insiders report on the day Patrick Marleau signed for 3 years and saying it was a mistake to give him 3 years, that was a huge mistake from Lou Lamoriello which turned out to be true. So I will say again that was long before anyone thought of John Tavares signing as a UFA and the contract extensions for Matthews and Marner.

I don't need to be a hockey insider to realize that it's a huge mistake to give Tavares 7yrs and Muzzin 4yrs so what's your point ?

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't need to be a hockey insider to realize that it's a mistake huge to give Tavares 7yrs and Muzzin 4yrs so what's your point ?

It was said by them giving 3 years to Marleau was a mistake by Lou Lamoriello.

Nothing like that was said when they signed Tavares and re-signed Muzzin.

 

[4thline]

105 points in total came with Matthews out of the line up. And no Tavares.

Or....

6 games - 1 of 12 possible points for Babcock with Dubas’ back up.

Let’s keep going in circles.

That same backup got 8 of 16 for Keefe.


Let's slow the roll on the use of "let's" because you're all alone in the circles here.

We get it, your arguments and key factors only apply when you want them to. Health is simultaneously one of the two most important determinants of success and something that can't be measurably different between two teams/ times.

 

[Pookie]

Which rhd that was on the trade market could they have acquired instead?

This is my favourite HF debating tactic.

Ask a question to which there is no answer as while most all players are available for the right price, it’s impossible to know who kicked the tires on who.

If a poster gives an answer, criticize the player or attack the source (ie Cox or Simmons or some other source).

If a poster doesn’t bite and doesn’t speculate... claim that there was absolutely no one on the market that was better than the player in question.

It’s a classic tactic.

It’s silly.

But classic.

 

[4thline]

I don't need to be a hockey insider to realize that it's a mistake huge to give Tavares 7yrs and Muzzin 4yrs so what's your point ?

Well you also abandoned the conversation where you declared Tavares certain to be an albatross as soon as empirical data of expected aging curves got brought, so maybe you should leave the commentary to the insiders?

 

[hotpaws]

It was said by them giving 3 years to Marleau was a mistake by Lou Lamoriello.

Nothing like that was said when they signed Tavares and re-signed Muzzin.

anyone with half a brain will realize both Muzzin and Tavres will both be grossly overpaid at the tale end of their deals

and i did hear plenty of people saying similar things , maybe you missed it

 

[hotpaws]

Well you also abandoned the conversation where you declared Tavares certain to be an albatross as soon as empirical data of expected aging curves got brought, so maybe you should leave the commentary to the insiders?

your data showed he would be a anchor but you spun by saying 11m per for a 60pt weak defensive center is a bargain

 

[Pookie]

That same backup got 8 of 16 for Keefe.

And was traded wasn’t he? for under performance?

Hard to keep track of all the mistakes I know.

Cost us significantly to get a replacement.

 

[Pookie]

anyone with half a brain will realize both Muzzin and Tavres will both be grossly overpaid at the tale end of their deals

and i did hear plenty of people saying similar things , maybe you missed it

I said it when they signed Tavares. Quite a few said it was well.

 

[4thline]

your data showed he would be a anchor but you spun by saying 11m per for a 60pt weak defensive center is a bargain

I just pointed that a 65 point 1C would be a slightly overpaid contributing 1C level player. Not a bargain, but still an asset to a winning team.

 

[4thline]

And was traded wasn’t he? for under performance?

Relevance to how our current team has performed with and without it's top 2 defensemen?

 

[Menzinger]

This is my favourite HF debating tactic.

Ask a question to which there is no answer as while most all players are available for the right price, it’s impossible to know who kicked the tires on who.

If a poster gives an answer, criticize the player or attack the source (ie Cox or Simmons or some other source).

If a poster doesn’t bite and doesn’t speculate... claim that there was absolutely no one on the market that was better than the player in question.

It’s a classic tactic.

It’s silly.

But classic.

Come on Pookie, you can look at other players either signed or traded for during that period to guage whether or not their was likely a suitable alternative.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I said it when they signed Tavares. Quite a few said it was well.

I don't need to be a hockey insider to realize that it's a mistake huge to give Tavares 7yrs and Muzzin 4yrs so what's your point ?

What are your feelings on Pietrangelo?

 

[Menzinger]

a 60 pt forward (if he can still put that up) who can't skate and is eating up 11m of cap is an massive anchor not an asset

but hey i get it , you have to defend Dube's every move , let's hope for your sake he doesn't get kicked to the curb like a piece of garbage like Burke did which left his huge rabid fan club looking like morons

Youre literally criticizing Dubas for something that hasnt happened yet, and may not even happen.

Both Tavaraes and Muzzin will have their current contracts completed and each guy will still be several years younger than Marleau was when he first signed his contract with the Leafs

 

[Pookie]

Relevance to how our current team has performed with and without it's top 2 defensemen?

Fared as well as the team that lost Tavares for two weeks to start the season

John Tavares injury update: Toronto Maple Leafs captain to miss two weeks with broken finger

 

[Pookie]

Come on Pookie, you can look at other players either signed or traded for during that period to guage whether or not their was likely a suitable alternative.

You know that in any given year... virtually any player is available.

Campbell and Clifford weren't available until Dubas offered 2 picks and Trevor Moore.

So pick one. Virtually ANY defenseman could have been on the table.

What's impossible to determine is what the price would be.

So your question has no answer.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Fared as well as the team that lost Tavares for two weeks to start the season

John Tavares injury update: Toronto Maple Leafs captain to miss two weeks with broken finger

Gotta love how Tavares is irreplaceable now that it suits you, after you just bragged about predicting his contract would be a complete anchor

 

[kb]

Youre literally criticizing Dubas for something that hasnt happened yet, and may not even happen.

Both Tavaraes and Muzzin will have their current contracts completed and each guy will still be several years younger than Marleau was when he first signed his contract with the Leafs

This is what it looks like when the guy who thinks he's the smartest in the room suddenly realizes he's got it all backwards, and resorts to acts of desperation.

Not so different from the rest of his posts....come to think of it.

 

[Pookie]

What are your feelings on Pietrangelo?

Well, I don't know the guy personally.

I'm not sure if he likes to make taffy or how good he is at puzzles.

As a guy who will turn 31 in 6 months... that's the kind of contract that would be scary to take on. He's going to command a pay day and will be looking for term.

Data says that the peak age for defensemen is 28.

I'd stay away. Unless there was a 3 year deal at a low cap hit (<4 Million)... which there won't be.

Let him become someone else's anchor.

 

[4thline]

Fared as well as the team that lost Tavares for two weeks to start the season

John Tavares injury update: Toronto Maple Leafs captain to miss two weeks with broken finger

The Leafs went 3-2-2 with John "Michael Hutchison" Tavares out of the line up.

It's remarkable that JT's nickname is the very same player that you were talking about before jumping away from an irrelevant point.

 

[Pookie]

Gotta love how Tavares is irreplaceable now that it suits you, after you just bragged about predicting his contract would be a complete anchor

An $11M center is a key piece isn't he? That's what 4th liner guy was talking about. Key pieces missing.

As for the anchor... last I checked he didn't turn 33 over night did he?

Try to keep up.

 

[hotpaws]

What are your feelings on Pietrangelo?

Petro won't be worth his salary at the tale end of a 7 yr deal either but at least he'd fill a glaring current need unlike when we signed JT ,

very very few players age like Chara among a select few others have

 

[Pookie]

The Leafs went 3-2-2 with John "Michael Hutchison" Tavares out of the line up.

So... 8 points in 7 games?

5-4-1.... that's uh.... 11 points in 10 games.

What's the um... you like to call it... the "pace"?

8 over 7 ... carry the 1... that's.... ummm... 93.7 point pace

and ...

11 over 10... carry the 1.... that's.... immmm.... 90.2 point pace.

----

So the team without it's top 2 defenseman was essentially on the same pace as the team without it's top forward (and later lost Muzzin for a game or two and then Marner in early November).

Fun times.

Around the circle goes.

Same results with injuries to key players under both coaches.