Analyzing Dubas's performance - (Full Analysis)

[Gary Nylund]

Lots of posts ITT I don't understand for lack of context. I can only guess that Pookie's on another rampage.

 

[hotpaws]

April 27th, 2018, shortly after we were eliminated by Boston.

but you said we had the opportunity to ''earn'' extra points

no where did you say those points were of less value and shouldn't count like a few are saying now to fluff the Dube

 

[4thline]

So the team without it's top 2 defenseman was essentially on the same pace as the team without it's top forward (and later lost Muzzin for a game or two and then Marner in early November).

Around the circle goes.

Same results with injuries to key players under both coaches.

5-4-1 was not the pace without both defensemen, that was the pace of the last 10 games. 5 of which were with both D out. in those 5 it was 2-2-1. But yes, the pace without Tavares was similar to missing either of the D alone. 7 games without Tavares, 31 without 1 or both of Rielly/Muzzin.
Strike 1.

Even if you were right with your numbers, getting an equal result with top 2 D missing from the weaker area of the team vs. a C missing from a stacked offensive would be more impressive.
Strike 2

Marner was missing under both coaches (0-5 for one of them, 4-2 for the other, guess which) neither of which was at the same time as Tavares, making it kind of irrelevant, and Muzzin was not injured under Babcock
Strike 3

And to cap things off re the bolded- the point you were trying to make was that the team wasn't looking good at the end of the season because of a 5-4-1 record, and that the injuries didn't matter. It wasn't Keefe vs. Babock, it was Keefe healthy vs. Keefe unhealthy.

 

[Pookie]

Even if you were right with your numbers, getting an equal result with top 2 D missing from the weaker area of the team vs. a C missing from a stacked offensive would be more impressive.

Who made the defense the weaker area of the team by stacking up on forwards?

Hint: Sounds like Scooby DOO-bas.

... it was Keefe healthy vs. Keefe unhealthy.

Wait a second here.

I was told that Keefe was a coaching genius for the wins.

But you are saying that the wins are function of being healthy and the losses are a function of being unhealthy?

 

[4thline]

Who made the defense the weaker area of the team by stacking up on forwards?

Hint: Sounds like Scooby DOO-bas.

Wait a second here.

I was told that Keefe was a coaching genius for the wins.

But you are saying that the wins are function of being healthy and the losses are a function of being unhealthy?

Talent plays a role. Teams that are better tend to win.
Health definitely plays a role. If good players aren't in the lineup they can't contribute.
Coaching plays a role. good players in the lineup that aren't being used properly and/or are have been alienated to the point of being demotivated won't contribute as much to wins.

He's not a genius. He just got more out of this roster at every given level of health.

As for your "home run swing" we spend more on defense and had a better d-core this season than we did under Lou.

Good try, but still has literally nothing to do with things looking good to end the season.

 

[kb]

Who made the defense the weaker area of the team by stacking up on forwards?

Lou. Dubas went out and acquired Muzzin to fix that baffling oversight.

Who did Lou get for defence? Hint. Almost 37 years old and on the decline.

Who was his big UFA signing? A 37 year old UFA winger. Not a 27 year old #1c, not a 29 year old physical Dman......but a soft, heavily in decline 37 year old winger. That's approaching "dumb as a bag of hammers" status.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lou. Dubas went out and acquired Muzzin to fix that baffling oversight.

Who did Lou get for defence? Hint. Almost 37 years old and on the decline.

Who was his big UFA signing? A 37 year old UFA winger. Not a 29 year old #1c, not a 29 year old physical Dman......but a soft, heavily in decline 37 year old winger. That's approaching "dumb as a bag of hammers" status.

Instead of doing more to possibly trade for Ryan McDonagh for their defense at the 2018 trade deadline, Lou's big move was trading for Tomas Plekanec.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Instead of doing more to possibly trade for Ryan McDonagh for their defense at the 2018 trade deadline, Lou's big move was trading for Tomas Plekanec.

Lou should have been able to use the two 2nd round picks he gave away for rental 4th line centers on a defenseman. It's pretty embarrassing he didn't even try to do that

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lou should have been able to use the two 2nd round picks he gave away for rental 4th line centers on a defenseman. It's pretty embarrassing he didn't even try to do that

Besides Lou's contract expiring after the 2017-18 season, I wonder if Shanahan took something like that into account why he didn't extend him and decided to promote Dubas.

 

[LeafsNation75]

@CantLoseWithMatthews

These were some of the other trades involving defenseman at the 2018 trade deadline.

Montreal acquired Mike Reilly from Minnesota for a 2019 5th round pick.

Winnipeg acquired Joe Morrow from Montreal for a 2018 4th round pick.

Columbus acquired Ian Cole from Ottawa for a 2020 3rd round pick and Nick Moutrey.

 

[ACC1224]

My point is when multiple Hockey Insiders report on the day Patrick Marleau signed for 3 years and saying it was a mistake to give him 3 years, that was a huge mistake from Lou Lamoriello which turned out to be true. So I will say again that was long before anyone thought of John Tavares signing as a UFA and the contract extensions for Matthews and Marner.

Yes the 3rd year wasn’t good. Not sure that’s a revelation.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes the 3rd year wasn’t good. Not sure that’s a revelation.

So far no one at least in the media has questioned Dubas on the amount of years he's given in the contracts he signed.

I'm not counting Matthews 5 year contract extension, because he wasn't 37 years old when he signed that contract compared to when Marleau signed.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Someone link me an interview when Dubas was being real. From my stance, I see an extremely phony person who kisses the behinds of the media by addressing them all by first name and being super polite. Thats his way to answer a question. He is subtly arrogant and extremely phony. Dubas is shipping out talent because of the accumulation of the Top 4 guys getting paid top end money, maximizing every last dollar from Dubas. After this season, the same thing has to happen, ship out talent. They havent won a round yet and are forced to dismantle the team little by little already. Tavares 11 million was a massive mistake. A 6.5 million dollar upgrade over 2c Kadri? What? With the holes in the D core...lets go spend 11 million on a 2c with average skating....as if the D core wasnt screaming for help at this point. Then when he tries to upgrade the D core with a major chip in Kadri, he gets a soft undersized puck mover as a rental??? A guy who was not playing against top guys for Colarado in the playoffs, a guy who doesnt address the biggest weakness the LEafs have had the last 4-5 years or more...which is a defensive defenseman.

 

[ACC1224]

So far no one at least in the media has questioned Dubas on the amount of years he's given in the contracts he signed.

I'm not counting Matthews 5 year contract extension, because he wasn't 37 years old when he signed that contract compared to when Marleau signed.

Not sure I don’t listen to media. No idea what the point you’re trying to make is.

 

[ToneDog]

Well I guess we'll see how Lou deals with NYI's cap this offseason with several crucial players to sign.

Let's see Lou work some magic to offload that Ladd contract.

Not sure why you want to bring Lou into it. My point is that there are other options to dump contracts rather than giving up a first. Lou will be challenged to rid himself of contracts on the Island because he does not have the luxury of Robidas Island. Who else can trade the anchor of Clarkson's contract and then reacquire it a few years later ?

 

[Dekes For Days]

My point is that there are other options to dump contracts rather than giving up a first.

No, there wasn't. Not when the receiving team has to buy him out at full value for 6.25m and significant salary pre-UFA period in a league-wide cap squeeze year.

Lou will be challenged to rid himself of contracts on the Island because he does not have the luxury of Robidas Island.

There was zero way to "Robidas Island" Marleau.

 

[ACC1224]

Not sure why you want to bring Lou into it. My point is that there are other options to dump contracts rather than giving up a first. Lou will be challenged to rid himself of contracts on the Island because he does not have the luxury of Robidas Island. Who else can trade the anchor of Clarkson's contract and then reacquire it a few years later ?

Lou is brought in as the great deflector.

 

[ToneDog]

No, there wasn't. Not when the receiving team has to buy him out at full value for 6.25m and significant salary pre-UFA period in a league-wide cap squeeze year.

There was zero way to "Robidas Island" Marleau.

Agreed. If the option to "Robidas Island" Marleau was there Leafs would have taken it. I only brought it up because it is not a luxury Lou has on the Island when it comes to ridding himself of the Ladd contract.

 

[ottomaddox]

Instead of doing more to possibly trade for Ryan McDonagh for their defense at the 2018 trade deadline, Lou's big move was trading for Tomas Plekanec.

Maybe that's true, but did TOR have the assets to get McDonagh? Perhaps The NYR decided that they liked Tampa's assets more.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lou is brought in as the great deflector.

Lou is brought up because people don't understand what actually happened in 2017-2018, and they think it should have been upwards forever in the only thing they care about (points) until we were 82-0-0.

Lou is also brought up because people attempt to blame Dubas for fixing Lou's dumb mistakes in the best way possible.

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe that's true, but did TOR have the assets to get McDonagh? Perhaps The NYR decided that they liked Tampa's assets more.

While bringing in Plekanec was a brutal move, passing on McDonagh looks like a good miss.

 

[Merrrlin]

Lou is brought up because people don't understand what actually happened in 2017-2018, and they think it should have been upwards forever in the only thing they care about (points) until we were 82-0-0.

Lou is also brought up because people attempt to blame Dubas for fixing Lou's dumb mistakes in the best way possible.

Lou set Toronto back multiple years by handcuffing them to middle roster players on awful deals despite the need to sign key RFAs.

He's now doing the same to the Islanders. That Islander core had so much promise even post Tavares moving, and now it's just swamped with ugly contracts.

 

[ACC1224]

Lou set Toronto back multiple years by handcuffing them to middle roster players on awful deals despite the need to sign key RFAs.

He's now doing the same to the Islanders. That Islander core had so much promise even post Tavares moving, and now it's just swamped with ugly contracts.

He made some bad signings no doubt but the bolded seems a little over the top.

 

[Merrrlin]

He made some bad signings no doubt but the bolded seems a little over the top.

Take a look at the non-lottery draft picks our rivals made and compare them to ours during the Lou period.

How many Zaitsev/Marleau contracts did Boston sign? Tampa?

Not to mention the years of mediocrity despite having 3 stars on ELC deals.

Lou was bad in a lot of ways which aren't obvious. Lost opportunities and a general stagnation while our rivals grew stronger.

 

[4thline]

He made some bad signings no doubt but the bolded seems a little over the top.

I'd say straight up wrong more than over the top. His mistakes/ direction didn't set us back, if anything they pushed us ahead in the short term at the cost of the long term.