Confirmed with Link: [ANA/WSH] Christian Djoos for Daniel Sprong

[FiveHoleTickler]

Yep. He’s reactive, not proactive.

Even his reactions are slow.

It was clear after being swept in 2017 that the team was broken and the "re-tool" needed to begin. Then he wasn't reactive quick enough to pull the plug on Randy.

 

[Deuce22]

It was apparent after the San Jose playoff fiasco that major changes were needed. But instead, Bob wasted last year trying to rehab Carlyle's coaching career. This year has been a teetering between trying to be competitive and getting younger and faster. I don't see how the past two seasons have moved the Ducks forward. Some of Bob's moves have been good (Rowney, Djoos, Gudbranson), some not so good. It feels like the Ducks are treading water. Also is frustrating to be essentially wasting Gibson's prime years. Hoping to win the lottery is not a strategy to me. I would love to see a consistent plan that has a goal attached to it in the end. I'm not seeing that.

 

[mightyquack]

We are currently the minor league feeder team now... like the Marlins/Rays in Baseball. We like trading talented guys like Yelich for a small return just to prove how good we are at finding talent and to help other teams build a contender.

We had to give up Vatanen for Rico, and Ryan for Silver so those were lateral trades or with us giving up the better current player. But how many star /core players have we obtained through trades? None. How many have we lost? A few Allstars or near Allstars: Frederick Andersen, Palmieri, Theodore. We lost even useful role guys like Pettersson and Maroon. Those are just the guys that I can think of. We had pieces to be at least make the playoffs so we defintely made too many consecutive mistakes and deserve to be losers for a long while.

Kesler? Cogs? They were pretty huge parts of our contending team. I'm not sure how many star players you are expecting to acquire given Anaheim's core was pretty much already set with Fowler/Lindholm/Manson/Getz/Perry/Kesler/Silf/Rakell/Cogs and so on. Sure, I wish they had made another trade to push them over the line - but there's no way we were fitting in another top tier player in the budget.

And are we really going to complain about trading away Andersen when we had Gibson? And that's not even mentioning the great return we got on a goaltender who was on his way out anyway.

Not a fan of BM at all, but this is being pretty overly critical. He had some real nice moves during our contending years too. It's only been the last 2 or so seasons where he's rapidly gone down hill.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

It was apparent after the San Jose playoff fiasco that major changes were needed. But instead, Bob wasted last year trying to rehab Carlyle's coaching career. This year has been a teetering between trying to be competitive and getting younger and faster. I don't see how the past two seasons have moved the Ducks forward. Some of Bob's moves have been good (Rowney, Djoos, Gudbranson), some not so good. It feels like the Ducks are treading water. Also is frustrating to be essentially wasting Gibson's prime years. Hoping to win the lottery is not a strategy to me. I would love to see a consistent plan that has a goal attached to it in the end. I'm not seeing that.

You really have to wonder what Henry is thinking. When he was a new owner I would have cut Henry a lot of slack in defaulting to his hired hands. He's been around long enough now for me to believe any decision or non decision reflects his agreement with the direction of the team.

 

[cheesymc]

Kesler? Cogs? They were pretty huge parts of our contending team. I'm not sure how many star players you are expecting to acquire given Anaheim's core was pretty much already set with Fowler/Lindholm/Manson/Getz/Perry/Kesler/Silf/Rakell/Cogs and so on. Sure, I wish they had made another trade to push them over the line - but there's no way we were fitting in another top tier player in the budget.

And are we really going to complain about trading away Andersen when we had Gibson? And that's not even mentioning the great return we got on a goaltender who was on his way out anyway.

Not a fan of BM at all, but this is being pretty overly critical. He had some real nice moves during our contending years too. It's only been the last 2 or so seasons where he's rapidly gone down hill.

Yes, he was more competent back then and those we good pickups during a critical time, but we gave up alot of assets for them (or they were viewed as good assets at the time). But the the biggest argument I would have in your examples are that we traded for Kesler in 2014... and Cogs in 2009... which is almost a DECADE ago.... Are you going to judge him as a GM for what he did 6-11 years ago?? We've been giving away talent and have little to show for it and it links to our recent success. Madden can't draft enough talent to make up for so many losses.

 

[MMC]

We are currently the minor league feeder team now... like the Marlins/Rays in Baseball. We like trading talented guys like Yelich for a small return just to prove how good we are at finding talent and to help other teams build a contender.

We had to give up Vatanen for Rico, and Ryan for Silver so those were lateral trades or with us giving up the better current player. But how many star /core players have we obtained through trades? None. How many have we lost? A few Allstars or near Allstars: Frederick Andersen, Palmieri, Theodore. We lost even useful role guys like Pettersson and Maroon. Those are just the guys that I can think of. We had pieces to be at least make the playoffs so we defintely made too many consecutive mistakes and deserve to be losers for a long while.

This is total bullshit. Yelich is a top 5 player in the league. We haven’t traded a young player anywhere close to that level

 

[Masch78]

Yep. He’s reactive, not proactive.

He is one of the most actice GMs in the league when it comes to trades. He makes big ones every few years. Kesler, Rico, Andersen ...

You can like or dislike his moves but he is far from being reactive.

The plan was going with Hampus, Manson, Fowler and Monty as the core top 4. Monty did not turn out the way we all hoped. At least, his partner had issues with him.

 

[mightyquack]

Yes, he was more competent back then and those we good pickups during a critical time, but we gave up alot of assets for them (or they were viewed as good assets at the time). But the the biggest argument I would have in your examples are that we traded for Kesler in 2014... and Cogs in 2009... which is almost a DECADE ago.... Are you going to judge him as a GM for what he did 6-11 years ago?? We've been giving away talent and have little to show for it and it links to our recent success. Madden can't draft enough talent to make up for so many losses.

Firstly, Cogliano was in 2011. Secondly, I never said I'm judging a GM based on what he did 6-11 years ago, I just said that he had made some nice moves during our contending years - that's not to say he didn't have some clunkers as well, as he certainly did. Thirdly, when you're contending, you are always going to be giving up a lot of assets to try and stay competitive, that's the nature of the game.

Now, had there been a need to make more huge acqusitions in that time frame? There was absolutely no need to make a big splash before 2014, the team was in no-mans land after losing Pronger and Nieds in back to back years, and had a horrid prospect pool that was in desperate need of rebuilding. Trying to make a big splash at that point would have been foolish at best and set the team back further. Soon as the team moved back into regular playoff appearances, they made the move for Kesler that really pushed the team into the upper echlon of teams at that point.

Since the Kesler move it's not like other moves haven't happened. Despres, Wiz, Hagelin, Vermette, Perron, Eaves and so on, and really most of them could have been viewed as potential core players at the time they arrived but didn't work out for one reason or another. It happens, unforunately happened a bit too much here when we contended. I just don't there was really a need for another star player at that point, what Anaheim lacked was reliable middle six scoring, which BM never really went in for, or when he did (Perron) decided not to retain him for whatever idiotic reason.

Not disputing BM is a poor asset manager btw, said it for a while he is. And the last couple of years have especially been a disaster, but I don't think the contending years were that bad overall outside of a few black spots (Expansion draft, Beauch, Perron not re-signed), even if our all-in attempts were a bit half-assed.

 

[ADHB]

He is one of the most actice GMs in the league when it comes to trades. He makes big ones every few years. Kesler, Rico, Andersen ...

You can like or dislike his moves but he is far from being reactive.

The plan was going with Hampus, Manson, Fowler and Monty as the core top 4. Monty did not turn out the way we all hoped. At least, his partner had issues with him.

I don't think you understand the argument. The argument is that each move he makes is done thinking only as one solution for one problem. It's not part of a larger plan. On their own, each individual move you can at least try to make sense of, but when all put together, it's been a disaster.

 

[Paul4587]

He is one of the most actice GMs in the league when it comes to trades. He makes big ones every few years. Kesler, Rico, Andersen ...

You can like or dislike his moves but he is far from being reactive.

The plan was going with Hampus, Manson, Fowler and Monty as the core top 4. Monty did not turn out the way we all hoped. At least, his partner had issues with him.

I don’t think you understood what I meant when I said reactive...

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

This needs to be repeated every time somebody tries to justify any individual deal made for our D. It is the perspective some refuse to accept. You can argue any one deal either way if you like. But at the end of the day the big picture went from a really deep D core to one of the very weakest in short order. That's the sign of a GM with no plan, just a hope and a prayer.

Lmao on what planet is this one of the weakest D cores? Having incredible depth is always good and more than that it's a nice talking point, but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter that much. There's only six spots and bottom pairing guys aren't hard to find.

Its ironic because the big picture is the pretty clear success here. With half or over half your spots locked up, the returns begin diminishing when you have four talented guys roughly the same age trying to crack the bottom pair. Trading from that absolute strength to address other weaknesses, even to that extent, is the right move. The failures have been with how they've evaluated their own guys. Above everyone else Montour was the guy they bet on and that failed, Larsson was another guy they seemed to covet over others and right now that looks quite bad.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

You really have to wonder what Henry is thinking. When he was a new owner I would have cut Henry a lot of slack in defaulting to his hired hands. He's been around long enough now for me to believe any decision or non decision reflects his agreement with the direction of the team.

I imagine he's thinking what most people do, that Murray presided over an incredibly long period of sustained successful, excellent hockey, that he did a great job of doing that on a budget, that he overcommitted to a coach whose time had passed him by (though he did so with the blessing of his top players), that he's dealt with an extraordinary run of injuries to top players spanning multiple seasons now, and that now he's got his work cut out for him in rebuilding the team.

There's really no reason he'd have lost confidence in his GM at this point, unless he was an HF poster.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I imagine he's thinking what most people do, that Murray presided over an incredibly long period of sustained successful, excellent hockey, that he did a great job of doing that on a budget, that he overcommitted to a coach whose time had passed him by (though he did so with the blessing of his top players), that he's dealt with an extraordinary run of injuries to top players spanning multiple seasons now, and that now he's got his work cut out for him in rebuilding the team.

There's really no reason he'd have lost confidence in his GM at this point, unless he was an HF poster.

I hear you. And if we were talking about normal folks' jobs as opposed to sports GMs, I'd lean in that direction for sure. But I'm not so sure that in the crazy world of sports there is one path for success that works year after year, decade after decade. The ability to change quickly is critical. Now I know that can apply to real life too, but I just think it's much more volatile in the world of sports. That's why GMs and managers/coaches are hired to be fired where everyday workers aren't.

 

[Static]

Again, I think this fanbase is utterly spoiled with the success of the last 15 years.

 

[clownshoes]

Again, I think this fanbase is utterly spoiled with the success of the last 15 years.

good cop-out Bob

 

[Static]

good cop-out Bob

Cop-out of what?

 

[cheesymc]

This is total bullshit. Yelich is a top 5 player in the league. We haven’t traded a young player anywhere close to that level

Wow you sound as sensitive as Bob Murray’s relative...

First of all we don’t even have a top 5 player, let alone a top 50 player to trade. I used Yelich as an example for non baseball fans. Its irrefutable that Marlins always sell their top players, and it’s no denying we lost numerous all stars with little to show from those trade. So hopefully you don’t get too hurt if Theo or other player become a big star player.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Wow you sound as sensitive as Bob Murray’s relative...

First of all we don’t even have a top 5 player, let alone a top 50 player to trade. I used Yelich as an example for non baseball fans. Its irrefutable that Marlins always sell their top players, and it’s no denying we lost numerous all stars with little to show from those trade. So hopefully you don’t get too hurt if Theo or other player become a big star player.

Pardon?

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I hear you. And if we were talking about normal folks' jobs as opposed to sports GMs, I'd lean in that direction for sure. But I'm not so sure that in the crazy world of sports there is one path for success that works year after year, decade after decade. The ability to change quickly is critical. Now I know that can apply to real life too, but I just think it's much more volatile in the world of sports. That's why GMs and managers/coaches are hired to be fired where everyday workers aren't.

But successful people stick around, volatile job market or no. People can go round and round listing things Bob tried that didn't work but it can't erase just how good this team has been, and how deep, until very recently. That's what the owners are thinking. Why would I get rid of this guy and go for some unknown quantity?

 

[Sean Garrity]

The only point I was trying to make is that we did that once, with Vatanen. Montour might’ve been top 4 in minutes(too Getzlaf to look it up) but he wasn’t successful being paired with Fowler or Lindholm. It certainly wasn’t the case with Theo and Pettersson. It’s quite easy in hindsight to say those trades were dumb (the Theo one I’ve always agreed was dumb but Larsson was viewed to be ahead of Pettersson or at a minimum on par)but if all 4 of those guys flame out like a Peter Holland then this discussion isn’t even being had. I also agree that BM is reactive to an extent but he had that luxury when we had the near elite teams. Now it’s clearly a different time, and that stated I’m not even sure if he’s the best GM for the rebuild. Also agree that we’re somewhat spoiled with the success.

 

[alcolol]

What in the f*** has become of this thread?

 

[Arthuros]

Djoos is playing like I expected him to, and I like that.

Dunno what's going on in the rest of this thread.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Again, I think this fanbase is utterly spoiled with the success of the last 15 years.

So we shouldn't call out bad management? Burke is the one who delivered a championship, Bob has always left the team a player short of being able to do the same

 

[Static]

So we shouldn't call out bad management? Burke is the one who delivered a championship, Bob has always left the team a player short of being able to do the same

It means you should have some perspective before exclaiming absolutes.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

You can look at all 4 moves individually and find justifications for all of them (even if some of the justifications are highly questionable). But at the end of the day it’s Murray’s job to have a long term plan and vision and at a macro level. We went from having the deepest d core in the league to absolutely no depth in a matter of two seasons.

I don't comprehend this singular thought with limited scope.

You cite Murray's job is to have a long term plan and vision and(sic) at a macro(sic) [micro] level. It's facetious of you to omit the several factors we found ourselves in today, which your scope is encompassed by two seasons only.

The last defenseman drafted in the top two rounds
2016. 1st round, 27th overall was Jacob Larsson. There was a three year void in drafting defensemen in the top-2 rounds for the next three consecutive drafts. Through the draft is how we accrued the deepest D-corps league. I cannot stress this poignant fact enough.

Patrick Eaves trade
In the 2016-17 season, the Ducks traded for Eaves in Feb of 2017. It was for a conditional 2nd rounder, but can become a first rounder if the team makes it into the WCF and Eaves participates in half of the games of the first two rounds of the playoffs. That conditional 2nd rounder was a pick we acquired from the Leafs from the Andersen trade. Apparently, we lost the first round pick as we reached the WCF with Eaves meeting the trade requirements.

Here's a quote from NHL.com: "The Ducks are hopeful Eaves will boost an offense that ranks 20th in the NHL and 10th in the West at 2.56 goals per game. After leading the NHL in power-play percentage last season (23.1), the Ducks are 14th at 19.5."

In 20 regular games of that season, Eaves scored 11 goals and 3 assists for a scoring rate of 0.7 ppg. In the playoffs, he played in 7 games due to injury, but still managed 2 goals and 2 assists. He had great chemistry on the top line. We re-signed him to a 3-year extension. He has only played a total of 9 games since.

Vegas Expansion
Yeah, this totally was predictable several years before 2017 when Murray was making contracts, ie Bieksa's specifically. We were going to start losing our depth here.
Lindholm, Manson, Fowler, Bieksa, Vatanen, Beauch, Montour, Holzer, Pettersson, and Welinski were still on the roster after the Entry draft. We lost two defensemen at the ED.

Mass injuries at center in 2017-18
Grant = 66 games played
Vermette (age 35) = 64 games played
Wagner = 64 games played
Getzlaf = 56 games played
Kesler = 44 games played (he didn't play his first game of the season until 2 days after Christmas... He would never play at the level he was once known for from here onward.)

Henrique = 57 games played (for us after we traded for him)

Adam Henrique Trade (2017-18)
No Kesler. No Eaves. Big problems! We were 11-10-4 when we pulled the trigger on Rico. We had Monty already playing in the NHL this year (got 27 NHL games the previous season). It was Rico, Blandisi, and a 2018 3rd round pick for Vatanen and a conditional 2019 3rd round pick for re-signing Rico. Lost in this is the fact we re-signed Rico, had prospect Blandisi to use in a trade (which we did), and got a 3rd round pick as well which implies Murray was planning for today and tomorrow.

Defense: Lindholm, Manson, Fowler, Bieksa, Beauch, Montour, Holzer, Pettersson, Welinski

2018 - 19 Season
What we already know: Eaves not available. Perry injured and not available to start the season. Kelser would never be the same. Getzlaf injured and not available to start the season. Beauchemin and Bieksa were done in the NHL, both actually helped boast the Ducks' defense being deep - which is actually not considered.

We were forced to start 2018 first round selection C Isac Lundestrom in the NHL at the beginning of the season. That's how desperate the Ducks were. We have been imbalanced since 2017-18 season as we were lacking, but more so this year.

Defense (before any trades): Lindholm, Manson, Fowler, Montour, Larsson, Pettersson, Welinski, Holzer, and MDZ

Pettersson trade
2017-18: Games played = 22, 1g + 3a = 4pts, +5
2018-19: Games played = 27, 0g + 6a = 6pts, +4

Pettersson was a bottom pairing defensemen and I wouldn't say he's an amazing prospect. I was higher on Larsson than Pettersson, but even then, both are fringe NHL defensemen which is great for a bottom pairing player developing. We needed offense and in a hurry. We started the season without our proposed top line of Eaves-Getz-Perry.

The Pettersson trade occurred before the Montour trade. As you can see Pettersson was simply a still developing bottom pair defenseman. We can't be whining about a bottom pairing defenseman being traded at that particular time in hopes to get scoring today with F Sprong.

Montour trade (TDL)
2018-19: Games played = 62, 5 g + 20 a = 25 pts, -16

Monty for prospect D Guhle and 1st round pick (Tracey). There are many factors here for Monty and he didn't move the needle for GM Murray. Apparently, Monty didn't move the needle for a better Sabres team in 2019-20. But you can cry all you want about losing defensive depth and omit Monty isn't moving the needle for his new team to a playoff spot.

2019-20 Teams

• Anaheim: 67 games and 62 points (out of a playoff spot)
• Buffalo: 67 games and 66 points (out of a playoff spot)

Recalling our forward drafting (top 2 rounds) since 2009 (when we drafted Vatanen in the fourth round)
2009: C Holland (1st, 15 overall), RW Palmieri (1st, 26th)
2010: RW Etem (1st, 29th), RW Smith-Pelly (2nd, 42nd)
2011: RW Rakell (1st, 30th), C Wild Bill (2nd, 53rd)
2012: C Kerdiles (2nd, 36th)
2013: RW Sorensen (2nd, 45th)
2014: LW Ritchie (1st, 10th)
2015: C Nattinen (2nd, 59th)
2016: LW Jones (1st, 24th), C Steel (1st, 30th)
2017: = no first round pick (Eaves trade) =LW Comtois (2nd, 50th), C Morand (2nd, 60th)
2018: C Lundestrom (1st, 23rd), C Groulx (2nd, 54th)
2019: C Zegras (1st, 9th), LW Tracey (1st, 29th)

Palmieri was panning out, but GM Murray couldn't afford him in the future at that time. Rakell has regressed. Ritchie was looking like a 2nd line winger that inconsistent in offensive production, but a slow get off skating. That's all that's panned out here in Anaheim with respect to forward draftees in the top two rounds. (Wild Bill needed two franchises to wake him up. That was all on Wild Bill than the franchises.)

I know I've made fun of our scouting group that we don't know how to draft forwards. I had high hopes going into this season with Steel, Terry, and Comtois. Jones is just a faster Cogs, which is still useful.

Drafted defense that have panned out for the Ducks
2009: Vatanen (4th round, 106th)
2010: Fowler (1st, 12th)
2011: Manson (6th, 160th)
2012: Lindholm (1st, 6th)
2013: Theodore (1st, 26th)
2014: Pettersson (2nd, 38th), Montour (2nd, 55th)

2016: No defensive drafted in first two rounds
2017: No defensive drafted in first two rounds
2018: No defensive drafted in first two rounds

I'm skeptical about putting Pettersson on that list because we really didn't know much about Pettersson at the NHL level before we traded him. I left out 2011 D Welinski from that list because he didn't do enough at the NHL level despite being an AHL all-star for us in 2017-18. Heck, 2015 first rounder Larsson looked like a better defenseman than Pettersson last year, which Larsson lodged 49 NHL games.

Conclusion
It's a very superficial stance to state we lost our depth in two seasons, but be disingenuous to omit the importance of drafting defensemen in the top two rounds as well as not having our forwards pan out similarly to our drafted defense. You don't include a macro view (large scope) and you're selective in your micro view (short scope). Montour isn't helping us today when he isn't helping a better team to the playoffs. Vatanen hasn't moved the needle for the Devils and was recently traded.

Our main problem is we don't have a proper scoring offense nor a forward corps that plays a 200 ft game to help out the defense this year. After the TDL, we've won games without a top-3 defense and a top-4 defense. A lot of that credit goes to the forward corps and our new additions along with Sherwood. Heinen, Milano, and Aggo provided more speed, backchecking, as well as playing a whole 200ft game. D Irwin has been surprising and an upgrade over Holzer. D Djoos is just freaking calm all the time with the puck.

When GM Murray took over the team in 2018-19, he got the whole team working together to end with a positive note (and this is without Kase on the bench!). With the team struggling under RC and Eakins, Murray assessed the problem is its veteran leadership core that's not raising their games to shelter the youth. Gibby has struggled this year and has looked normal than his usual super stellar self. The Ducks have a set top-4 defense today, but they're injured... often... and, now, altogether. We have Larsson and Guhle developing, but those injuries forcing those two to play higher than they should be does expose our depth. Guhle looked good at the start of the season, but got injured. Since then, he hasn't been the same player. Yet any team would struggle if they got hit with these many injuries to their defensive unit.

What's odd is that more forwards we have acquired outside of the draft have produced, when healthy, for us. Kelser, Eaves, and Rico are the headliners for that identification. Grant, Rowney, and Deslauriers have produced, but they're our fourth line. Nowadays, we got Milano, Heinen, and Aggo.

• Milano: Games = 5, 2g + 2a = 4pts
• Heinen: Games = 5, 2g + 1a = 3pts
• Aggozzino: Games = 5, 1g + 0a = 1pt

It's a team game. You're just unwilling to view the macro scope with the several micro problems throughout that span. It's easier to say we lost defensive depth and GM Murray couldn't figure out it, while not adding context of those other players impact to their respective new teams nor our own problems. We have a top-3 in defense and good fillers on the bottom pairing to start this season. The gamble were prospects Guhle or Larsson filling in as regulars to start this season at the NHL level. But the fact Murray was trying to address our forward situation via the draft at the expense of not drafting defense isn't brought up because maybe it's just too much thought for you and others.

We're more excited about Zegras than any prospect forward we have today in the NHL or AHL. I'd venture to say we're more excited for Zegras over both Kase and Ritchie. We're already complaining about moving on from Rakell too. LoL But nayyyyyyyyyy, it's just easier to have a simplified thought that our GM knows nothing and he didn't bother to address the defense. Who cares that we have no offense and he's been trying to upgrade it after his top acquisitions have fallen to injury and Perry's play fell off the face of the planet.

Your stance about our defense and two years lacks nuance. Nuance requires depth thinking. All I can do is share this nuance, but if you choose to ignore it, then that's your choice. It seems you're adamant on minimizing your thoughts as you did in attacking an "A and B" premise as if it were an "A or B" premise. You got a narrative and you need actual AND complete facts to interfere with your thoughts. ha!