Confirmed with Link: ANA trades Carl Hagelin to PIT for David Perron and Adam Clendening.

[Richard]

1. Whos talking about this season? I responded to this...

"The difference between this guy and Perron is 4 more years! If this doesn't work you have yet another cap albatross hanging around your neck. Perron is probably done in the NHL after this season, or will be signed for league minimum."

Youre changing your argumrnt that I initially responded too. And as far as this year goes, have you actually watched how Perron has been playing/fitting here?

2. From all accounts he's been playing much better recently including getting 5 of his 12 point in his last 11 games as a Duck.

3. Well that's completely incorrect.

The only reason this trade went down is because Hagelin has been so tremendously bad. The Ducks cleared 16M in space. We took 16M in space.

There are better uses. There isn't a ton of difference between Hagelin and guys like Fehr/Bonino etc.

You never overpay for bottom sixers. He's a decent 3rd liner in a league full of em. It is a stupid trade made soley for the here and now and not the future. As is all of this teams moves, which is why we are a joke.

 

[Human]

So a small sample size in a new system, on a new team, without training camp and while dealing with an injury is a good body of work to judge the rest of a 27 year olds career?

That's still way more than the one game he has played as a Pen most of this board is fawning over...

 

[Shady Machine]

I mean, yeah, but they did that and haven't replaced him internally or with the player they got back in Etem.

Maybe the pick they got will turn into that player, but it won't be for a few years.

He's not a Spaling where you can replace him that easily. We can't even develop that level of player because of how terrible we are at drafting and developing.

They replaced him internally with Lindberg. They have Miller, Kreider, and Lindberg as top 9 left wingers. Lindberg has 11 goals on the year. Not the same player as Hagelin, but you get my point.

My view is if Hagelin can be a top 6 winger here, this is a very good trade. If he can't, it's questionable. We don't have internal solutions as top 6 wingers, outside of Sprong who is a right winger, but we do have potential bottom 6 solutions. Paying 4 mm for a guy who is a very good 3rd liner vs 850k for a solid one is questionable in the cap world.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The only reason this trade went down is because Hagelin has been so tremendously bad. The Ducks cleared 16M in space. We took 16M in space.

There are better uses. There isn't a ton of difference between Hagelin and guys like Fehr/Bonino etc.

You never overpay for bottom sixers. He's a decent 3rd liner in a league full of em. It is a stupid trade made soley for the here and now and not the future. As is all of this teams moves, which is why we are a joke.

Last i checked he's not playing in the bottom 6. And if we get to the point he is we will have an excellent 3rd liner. If his cap hit becomes a problem he can be moved.

 

[Penguinator]

Today i've learned that Hagelin is horrendously bad, injured, a nobody.

Awesome...

Some need to realize he wasn't used properly as opposed to now being potentially a good fit under Sully's system.

Also, depending on said system & coach, a player can go from being a 3rd liner to a 2nd or vice-versa.

The vast majority of teams have players on top-lines when they shouldn't but it's a cap era. We've been cleaning up garbage & filling roster holes with players that fit lately. JR has been proactive & seemingly less patient with misfits. He sure is trying his best like all GMs & the Pens are trending upwards now.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

That's still way more than the one game he has played as a Pen most of this board is fawning over...

God forbid he look good in the only game so far as a Penguin, did I miss where I or anyone else put a down payment for his eventual HOF speech?

 

[Richard]

They replaced him internally with Lindberg. They have Miller, Kreider, and Lindberg as top 9 left wingers. Lindberg has 11 goals on the year. Not the same player as Hagelin, but you get my point.

My view is if Hagelin can be a top 6 winger here, this is a very good trade. If he can't, it's questionable. We don't have internal solutions as top 6 wingers, outside and of Sprong who is a right winger, but we do have potential bottom 6 solutions. Paying 4 mm for a guy who is a very good 3rd liner vs 850k for a solid one is questionable in the cap world.

Hagelin is not a top six winger and NEVER will be. The guy is 27, the league knows what he will bring. He's a decent third liner whose stats were overinflated from playing on a really good team with really good defenders who sent the puck up the ice quick.

You can get a guy that will play similar for 1M or less; IE 1/4 his salary. The Ducks, once again, laugh all the way to the bank.

This team isn't losing because of its bottom six. This team is losing because we have no talent in the top six besides Crosby and Malkin, no real physical presence on the blueline or down the middle (Fehr is the worst 6 ft whatever center I've ever seen in regards to physicality) and we lack a true number 1 dman.

That's why we suck in a nutshell.

This trade is useless. It's a criminal waste of cap space. Why do you think the Ducks were so eager to do it they took PERRON off our hands (that dude flat out sucks??).

This team is run by a bunch of idiots.

 

[mpp9]

They replaced him internally with Lindberg. They have Miller, Kreider, and Lindberg as top 9 left wingers. Lindberg has 11 goals on the year. Not the same player as Hagelin, but you get my point.

My view is if Hagelin can be a top 6 winger here, this is a very good trade. If he can't, it's questionable. We don't have internal solutions as top 6 wingers, outside of Sprong who is a right winger, but we do have potential bottom 6 solutions. Paying 4 mm for a guy who is a very good 3rd liner vs 850k for a solid one is questionable in the cap world.

True, forgot about Lindberg.

I just don't like how Hagelin's being characterized as this dime a dozen bottom six player. He's one of the very best skaters in the game. He has the potential to score you a big time goal in a playoff series. Like PH, I'd add another one of him if I could.

The salary cap is what it is. We had Scuds, Kunitz and Dupuis to start the season. We replaced two of them with younger better players. And by dumping Perron, a guy we weren't keeping, we still have a couple mil of Dupes' LTIR room to play with at the deadline.

 

[Richard]

Last i checked he's not playing in the bottom 6. And if we get to the point he is we will have an excellent 3rd liner. If his cap hit becomes a problem he can be moved.

He has a no movement clause that is triggered next season I believe. Why on earth would someone trade for him? He would have to be a negative asset to the balance sheet; we would have to give to get rid of him.

We don't need excellent third liners who make 4M unless they crush people in the corners and help tip our physical games.

Hagelin is here till he's 32 I believe

Yay, we are such a strong organization. I can't believe all the third liners we've managed to acquire!

 

[Shady Machine]

True, forgot about Lindberg.

I just don't like how Hagelin's being characterized as this dime a dozen bottom six player. He's one of the very best skaters in the game. He has the potential to score you a big time goal in a playoff series. Like PH, I'd add another one of him if I could.

The salary cap is what it is. We had Scuds, Kunitz and Dupuis to start the season. We replaced two of them with younger better players. And by dumping Perron, a guy we weren't keeping, we still have a couple mil of Dupes' LTIR room to play with at the deadline.

This year the trade is fine. I have no issues with it this year. I'm talking about this summer, next season, etc. If JR has a plan to move Kunitz before July 1 or others ways to open up cap space, then we are good. I just think there is a risk to bringing on a guy with 3 yeas left on his deal that likely won't live up to the money. Oh well. I hope he and JR prove me wrong.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Hagelin is here till he's 32 I believe

30, actually. Never let a fact get in the way of a nice rant.

 

[mpp9]

This year the trade is fine. I have no issues with it this year. I'm talking about this summer, next season, etc. If JR has a plan to move Kunitz before July 1 or others ways to open up cap space, then we are good. I just think there is a risk to bringing on a guy with 3 yeas left on his deal that likely won't live up to the money. Oh well. I hope he and JR prove me wrong.

I'll agree that if they're going to upgrade the LW and defense, Kunitz must be a cap dump. Hopefully they see it that way.

If they get rid of all of the old/bad contracts and replace them with younger better players on questionable contracts, I can certainly live with that.

 

[Shady Machine]

he has a no movement clause that is triggered next season i believe. Why on earth would someone trade for him? He would have to be a negative asset to the balance sheet; we would have to give to get rid of him.

We don't need excellent third liners who make 4m unless they crush people in the corners and help tip our physical games.

Hagelin is here till he's 32 i believe

Yay, we are such a strong organization. I can't believe all the third liners we've managed to acquire!

27+3=32?

 

[Shady Machine]

I'll agree that if they're going to upgrade the LW and defense, Kunitz must be a cap dump. Hopefully they see it that way.

If they get rid of all of the old/bad contracts and replace them with younger better players on questionable contracts, I can certainly live with that.

Agreed. I think getting a team to take all of Kunitz contract without sending one back our way may be difficult. Who knows though. There could be a team out there not on his no trade list that needs to hit the floor.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

In a couple years, 4 mil for a 3rd liner will be pretty much standard.

Hell, Canucks will give anyone Sutter and his new contract for Hagelin....

....pllllleease?

 

[Asuna]

27+3=32?

That damn common core math.

 

[mpp9]

Agreed. I think getting a team to take all of Kunitz contract without sending one back our way may be difficult. Who knows though. There could be a team out there not on his no trade list that needs to hit the floor.

If we're going after a rental, I hope we can get a team to give us value for Kunitz in such a deal.

Like, said GM is thinking, "Well, our player is going to leave and we can't afford him. How about we move him and get a player back who can be useful for another year as part of the deal."

 

[Richard]

30, actually. Never let a fact get in the way of a nice rant.

I assumed he was 28 and had 4 more years after this season. Thought he signed a 5 year deal for 20M.


Regardless my point remains, he is simply a way to tie up cap space. Watch if opportunity doesn't come knocking to more effectively use that cap space. It always does.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I can understand the concern with Hagelin's contract, but not with the arguments being presented here. Hagelin's contract could be an issue due to how much we're paying to Kessel, Crosby, Malkin and Letang, not because his contract is bad on its own. I think he's like half a million overpaid, that's not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

The Ducks did Hagelin for Perron because they desperately needed the cap space from letting Perron walk as a free agent to re-sign Vatanen, Lindholm, Rakell and Andersen, especially the first 2. That is by far the biggest reason they made that trade. Had they not had to worry about losing 2 top-4 defenseman this summer, I highly doubt they would have done Hagelin for Perron. Hagelin didn't fit with the Ducks well, but they wouldn't have had such a pressing issue for cap space if they didn't have to worry about re-signing Vatanen and Lindholm.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

He has a no movement clause that is triggered next season I believe. Why on earth would someone trade for him? He would have to be a negative asset to the balance sheet; we would have to give to get rid of him.

His limited NTC does not bind us, only the Ducks. It's our option whether we offer it to him or not, and I presume we won't.

Not sure how people don't recall just how good this guy was for the Rags, and how much they hated losing him.

 

[IcedCapp]

Here is a check list of things that have to happen for the Hagelin deal to be okay. (Not all of these things have to happen. Some alone are enough. Otherwise a combination of things)

- Hagelin becomes a bonafide top-6 player (in both play and production)
- Hagelin is traded with no salary retained
- Kunitz is traded with no salary retained
- Two or more ELC, or ELC-equivalent wingers are used in the top-9 next year (Bennett, Sprong, Simon, etc...)
- Those ELC/ELCE wingers produce properly for their role and play, ya know, 62+ games
- You move on from Lovejoy or move Cole (you can't have both next year)

 

[Human]

I can understand the concern with Hagelin's contract, but not with the arguments being presented here. Hagelin's contract could be an issue due to how much we're paying to Kessel, Crosby, Malkin and Letang, not because his contract is bad on its own. I think he's like half a million overpaid, that's not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

The Ducks did Hagelin for Perron because they desperately needed the cap space from letting Perron walk as a free agent to re-sign Vatanen, Lindholm, Rakell and Andersen, especially the first 2. That is by far the biggest reason they made that trade. Had they not had to worry about losing 2 top-4 defenseman this summer, I highly doubt they would have done Hagelin for Perron. Hagelin didn't fit with the Ducks well, but they wouldn't have had such a pressing issue for cap space if they didn't have to worry about re-signing Vatanen and Lindholm.

Which is exactly why JR should have gotten at least a pick on top of Hagelin. He sucks at dealing with other GMs. Time and time again he's not the one trading from a position of strength, though seeing the pieces involved he should..,

 

[joeyjake5]

This trade was made by pens as an upgrade to perron, who didn't score, can't skate, can't play D and can't pk. For this year, the pens win even if Hags doesn't score one goal. It got a non-producer off the top two lines. The ducks made the trade to clear up cap space for next year. Does any one think the ducks will sign perron for even at 2yrs at 2.5MM per year. If so, he better start scoring. Oh yes, he scored a goal last night but was on for two of the Kings goals.

 

[Shady Machine]

I can understand the concern with Hagelin's contract, but not with the arguments being presented here. Hagelin's contract could be an issue due to how much we're paying to Kessel, Crosby, Malkin and Letang, not because his contract is bad on its own. I think he's like half a million overpaid, that's not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

The Ducks did Hagelin for Perron because they desperately needed the cap space from letting Perron walk as a free agent to re-sign Vatanen, Lindholm, Rakell and Andersen, especially the first 2. That is by far the biggest reason they made that trade. Had they not had to worry about losing 2 top-4 defenseman this summer, I highly doubt they would have done Hagelin for Perron. Hagelin didn't fit with the Ducks well, but they wouldn't have had such a pressing issue for cap space if they didn't have to worry about re-signing Vatanen and Lindholm.

You obviously aren't reading my posts if you don't understand any of the concerns presented here about his contract.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Just think they looked at it as a gamble that may pay off.
Perron sucked here.
Made him available.

Ducks say they'll give us Hagelin and JR sees that speed and thinks it could be a decent compliment to his top 6 players after what Dupuis did here when he was healthier/younger.

I don't believe JR is thinking Hagelin is his "LW anchor" that he talked about this past week. (He said this team doesn't have a LW anchor).

Hags isn't that. He's a possible good/great compliment to his top 2 centers.