Confirmed with Link: ANA trades Carl Hagelin to PIT for David Perron and Adam Clendening.

[HandshakeLine]

People are really fixated on paying early 2000s prices for everything, aren't they?

I, too, am mad that cigarettes no longer cost $1.75 and the price of eggs is no longer a dozen for a buck and a quarter!

 

[PensPlz]

all of you pissing about the deal, would you have rather lost Perron for nothing? I'm sure those who would have dreams of signing a top FA, which always happens for the Pens!

If we aren't in a playoff position, which we most likely won't be, we could retain 50% of his salary and send him to a contender for depth. Perron at 50% would have got us a nice draft pick.

And we can never sign top FAs becuase we never have cap space because of trades like this.

Too much ego to sell.

And it might not even be selling. Boston is retaining salary on Lucic and they are in a much better spot than us.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If we aren't in a playoff position, which we most likely won't be, we could retain 50% of his salary and send him to a contender for depth. Perron at 50% would have got us a nice draft pick.

And we can never sign top FAs becuase we never have cap space because of trades like this.

Too much ego to sell.

And it might not even be selling. Boston is retaining salary on Lucic and they are in a much better spot than us.

Why are people so sure of these things?

1) It's not even remotely clear that there would have been a market for Perron at the deadline the way he was playing.

2) When was the last time a struggling soon-to-be UFA depth rental garnered a decent 1st or even high 2nd? Let alone something of value?

3) I must have missed the part where we were stuck with Hagelin after he waived his no-trade clause. Because as it now stands we can trade him to whomever whenever.

4) What on earth does keeping Perron do for us except creating another hole to be filled by a UFA (which rarely works out)? If Hagelin works, we have a spot for him for market value, which is better than having to go out and bid on a replacement in free agency. If he doesn't, then he's traded at the draft or in the off-season and we're at the same place that we would have been WITH Perron.

5) Who are these mysterious UFAs we would be signing for insanely low numbers who are also super amazing and who want to be on the Pens?

A lot of assumptions that people are making when they try to paint keeping Perron as the "smart", let alone "logical" choice.

 

[PensPlz]

Why are people so sure of these things?

1) It's not even remotely clear that there would have been a market for Perron at the deadline the way he was playing.

2) When was the last time a struggling soon-to-be UFA depth rental garnered a decent 1st or even high 2nd? Let alone something of value?

3) I must have missed the part where we were stuck with Hagelin after he waived his no-trade clause. Because as it now stands we can trade him to whomever whenever.

4) What on earth does keeping Perron do for us except creating another hole to be filled by a UFA (which rarely works out)? If Hagelin works, we have a spot for him for market value, which is better than having to go out and bid on a replacement in free agency. If he doesn't, then he's traded at the draft or in the off-season and we're at the same place that we would have been WITH Perron.

5) Who are these mysterious UFAs we would be signing for insanely low numbers who are also super amazing and who want to be on the Pens?

A lot of assumptions that people are making when they try to paint keeping Perron as the "smart", let alone "logical" choice.

At the same time you are saying we can't trade Perron, a UFA where we can retain, this year... You say if Hagelin doesn't work out we can just trade him away at the draft? A player who is more expensive, 3 years left, and has been just as bad as Perron this year?

OK... That sounds a lot more "smart" and "logical".

 

[Shady Machine]

People are really fixated on paying early 2000s prices for everything, aren't they?

I, too, am mad that cigarettes no longer cost $1.75 and the price of eggs is no longer a dozen for a buck and a quarter!

Thanks for dropping by and misrepresenting a minority opinion! The HFBoards way.

 

[Shady Machine]

If Hagelin doesn't work out, why are people so sure there is a trade market for him, if those same people aren't sure there would have been a trade market for Perron at the deadline?

Teams usually aren't psyched to take on 4MM contracts with 3 years remaining on a player that failed on 2 teams in 1 year.

IF Hagelin doesn't work out here, we aren't going to be able to move him without taking salary back IMO. That's why it's risky. That said, Hagelin is a player that helps you even if he's not producing. I just don't feel like paying 4MM a year for a 3rd line checker that puts up 20 points. Let's hope he's not that.

 

[mpp9]

If Hagelin doesn't work out, why are people so sure there is a trade market for him, if those same people aren't sure there would have been a trade market for Perron at the deadline?

Teams usually aren't psyched to take on 4MM contracts with 3 years remaining on a player that failed on 2 teams in 1 year.

IF Hagelin doesn't work out here, we aren't going to be able to move him without taking salary back IMO. That's why it's risky. That said, Hagelin is a player that helps you even if he's not producing. I just don't feel like paying 4MM a year for a 3rd line checker that puts up 20 points. Let's hope he's not that.

It's a valid worry.

I just don't like the main reason behind it. That we could get someone better for a couple mil more in free agency. It hasn't worked out for us in the past, and it doesn't seem all that logical to say we're not a playoff team and then expect free agents to come here.

You can move Hagelin in a deal to get a better player via trade as well. I'd imagine JR is making another one of those soon, and probably will again in the offseason. If Hagelin sucks, he can go in one of those deals.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Hagelin has already done more than Perron ever did for us this year in terms of play without the puck. Not a ringing endorsement, but he can definitely help us in other areas besides goal-scoring. He looked more comfortable in game 2. See if that continues.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's a valid worry.

I just don't like the main reason behind it. That we could get someone better for a couple mil more in free agency. It hasn't worked out for us in the past, and it doesn't seem all that logical to say we're not a playoff team and then expect free agents to come here.

You can move Hagelin in a deal to get a better player via trade as well. I'd imagine JR is making another one of those soon, and probably will again in the offseason. If Hagelin sucks, he can go in one of those deals.

That's a fair response. I actually was going to post about available UFA left wingers and you are right, wishing on those guys has consistently burned us in the past. The list isn't great and the only guys south of 30 that fit what we are looking for is Boedker and Lucic. Both are likely to be overpaid by a lot.

I've cooled off on the Hagelin acquisition. His speed does really help, even if I don't think he is going to work out with Malkin-Kessel long term. It's nice to have a guy on that line that is defensively responsible too.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Hagelin has already done more than Perron ever did for us this year in terms of play without the puck. Not a ringing endorsement, but he can definitely help us in other areas besides goal-scoring. He looked more comfortable in game 2. See if that continues.

Absolutely agree, but you can also clearly see the talent level isn't there for him to be a top 6 forward. Great 3rd liner down the road who can step in from time to time, but JR still has a lot of work to do.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

If Hagelin doesn't work out, why are people so sure there is a trade market for him, if those same people aren't sure there would have been a trade market for Perron at the deadline?

Teams usually aren't psyched to take on 4MM contracts with 3 years remaining on a player that failed on 2 teams in 1 year.

IF Hagelin doesn't work out here, we aren't going to be able to move him without taking salary back IMO. That's why it's risky. That said, Hagelin is a player that helps you even if he's not producing. I just don't feel like paying 4MM a year for a 3rd line checker that puts up 20 points. Let's hope he's not that.

One of the reasons I believe he would at least be moveable is his floor. Where a guy like Perron has to score to be valuable Hagelins speed and defense bring value in an of themselves. Whether its getting in on the forcheck, killing penalties etc. Now if he doesn't score there isn't gonna be a line of teams beating down your door for the guy but he will always be at least a solid player (if overpaid) that "just might be a better fit here".

 

[IcedCapp]

If Hagelin doesn't work out, why are people so sure there is a trade market for him, if those same people aren't sure there would have been a trade market for Perron at the deadline?

Teams usually aren't psyched to take on 4MM contracts with 3 years remaining on a player that failed on 2 teams in 1 year.

IF Hagelin doesn't work out here, we aren't going to be able to move him without taking salary back IMO. That's why it's risky. That said, Hagelin is a player that helps you even if he's not producing. I just don't feel like paying 4MM a year for a 3rd line checker that puts up 20 points. Let's hope he's not that.

Because Rob Scuderi was just traded.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Absolutely agree, but you can also clearly see the talent level isn't there for him to be a top 6 forward. Great 3rd liner down the road who can step in from time to time, but JR still has a lot of work to do.

It doesn't take as much to be a 2nd liner as people might think. If you can score 15 goals you're a 2nd liner, and Hagelin can. He had a couple chances last game and he just got here. With a semi-low production history the big thing for him will be putting in enough goals, and it'll be a fine line so we'll see.

 

[PensPlz]

Because Rob Scuderi was just traded.

Yeah, but we took on more cap with that trade. While it's not a trade I'm opposed to, you got to give to get. Retaining on Hagelin to move him isn't something I'd look forward to.

I just feel like trying to move Perron at the deadline, with the option to retain to sweeten the deal, is less risky than Hagelin's contract.

 

[ekm01]

Hagelin has what, 3 more years left at $4 million? This deal makes no sense from a cap perspective.

idk if anyone said this, but he also has a Limited NTC in years 2-4. Can pick 8 teams he does not want to be traded to.

 

[plaidchuck]

idk if anyone said this, but he also has a Limited NTC in years 2-4. Can pick 8 teams he does not want to be traded to.

NTCs do not follow a player when traded.

 

[PensPlz]

idk if anyone said this, but he also has a Limited NTC in years 2-4. Can pick 8 teams he does not want to be traded to.

It's been said and apparently that NTC is voided because of the trade. He won't have that NTC here. But, if he fails here no team will want him and his contract anyways. He'll be our Bickell. So trading him won't be an option.

 

[Shady Machine]

Because Rob Scuderi was just traded.

And we took on salary. Most trades of guys with higher cap hits usually come with cap coming back the other way.

 

[Shady Machine]

NTCs do not follow a player when traded.

I keep seeing people say this, but do you have any evidence? I don't doubt it, I've just seen people saying this recently and it hasn't come up around here in the past.

 

[Asuna]

i keep seeing people say this, but do you have any evidence? I don't doubt it, i've just seen people saying this recently and it hasn't come up around here in the past.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yeah, but we took on more cap with that trade. While it's not a trade I'm opposed to, you got to give to get. Retaining on Hagelin to move him isn't something I'd look forward to.

I just feel like trying to move Perron at the deadline, with the option to retain to sweeten the deal, is less risky than Hagelin's contract.

And we took on salary. Most trades of guys with higher cap hits usually come with cap coming back the other way.

We also got a legitimately good player.


Edit: and Hagelin is far better/younger than Scuderi, comparatively

 

[Shady Machine]

We also got a legitimately good player.


Edit: and Hagelin is far better/younger than Scuderi, comparatively

Agreed. I wasn't saying we couldn't move Hagelin for value at some point. I was just concerned about being able to move his contract without taking salary back. That said, you have correctly pointed out that there is time and options to move him if necessary down the line. I think I'll cool it on the concern for now.

 

[themethod7]

NTCs do not follow a player when traded.

IIRC, the acquiring team can actually choose whether or not to honor a NTC that has yet to take effect. Why they would do so, I don't know, but it is possible.

e: ignore me I'm a moran, guess I should have refreshed before replying.

 

[Shady Machine]

Great thanks. That's a weird rule but I guess it makes sense. I wonder how often teams choose to honor the clause. There really doesn't seem to be any incentive to do so other than building good will with a player. That type of good will can come back to bite you in the ass, so I probably wouldn't advocate it.

 

[IcedCapp]

Agreed. I wasn't saying we couldn't move Hagelin for value at some point. I was just concerned about being able to move his contract without taking salary back. That said, you have correctly pointed out that there is time and options to move him if necessary down the line. I think I'll cool it on the concern for now.

Your concerns are totally valid. But JR isn't going to let Hagelin get in the way of signing multiple people this summer. I'm not even saying this as a positive. I don't think the Pens should cap. But they will, and in the NHL, if you REALLY want to sign someone, there's ways to make it happen.