Speculation: All things Spezza Round II - This time it's business!

[2XPRO31]

We should be looking to get defenders, not forwards.

We are losing at least 2/3 of our top line.. Forwards wouldn't be bad. Not like we can't acquire defense later on

 

[Micklebot]

Which makes it more obvious that we won't be getting the huge deal previously mentioned.

Well, Boston didn't exactly move Thornton at an opportune time, ~20 games into the season, everybody has pretty much set their rosters, and are likely to wait until the deadline before being eager to make changes.

Moving him at the draft or at the deadline would likely have returned more.

We moved Yashin for a much better return than Thornton garnered. Nash, who had already started regressing in Columbus returned far more than Thornton and is/was a fraction of the player. An aging St.Louis demanded a trade to NYR and got more value than Thornton.

The Thornton trade was by all accounts a strange move; not in so much as wanting to go another direction, but rather in the timing and the accepted return.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well, Boston didn't exactly move Thornton at an opportune time, ~20 games into the season, everybody has pretty much set their rosters, and are likely to wait until the deadline before being eager to make changes.

Moving him at the draft or at the deadline would likely have returned more.

We moved Yashin for a much better return than Thornton garnered. Nash, who had already started regressing in Columbus returned far more than Thornton and is/was a fraction of the player. An aging St.Louis demanded a trade to NYR and got more value than Thornton.

The Thornton trade was by all accounts a strange move; not in so much as wanting to go another direction, but rather in the timing and the accepted return.

Yeah I get that. But the "timing" and whatever else is not enough to get us the top 2 top 6 top pick package. That would be like :
Oshie shattenkirk 1st
Smith josi 1st
Stepan staal 1st
Gudbransson huberdeau 1st/ prospect
I can't really think of one from the ducks. But it's probably as unrealistic as the other ones.

 

[Micklebot]

A player as good as Heatley is going to get that contract.

I'd say at the time that contract looked like a good deal, He had just put up back to back 50 Goal >100 pts seasons followed by a 41g 82 pts in 71 games (47g 95 pts pace) season. Only Ovechkin and Kovalchuk had scored more goals in that timeframe.

 

[BondraTime]

I'd say at the time that contract looked like a good deal, He had just put up back to back 50 Goal >100 pts seasons followed by a 41g 82 pts in 71 games (47g 95 pts pace) season. Only Ovechkin and Kovalchuk had scored more goals in that timeframe.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the contact. Any team would have taken it. It was the Full No-Trade clause that frigged the Sens over.

 

[bingo bango bongo]

a few recent trades have some conditional picks attached. i could see spezza being one of them too because of the 1 year left on his deal.


for example, let's say the team is anaheim: etem/bonino/dsp + 10th ov + 2nd 2015* (becomes 1st 2015 if Spezza re-signs) FOR spezza

it wouldn't work for st. louis but maybe this kind of deal is a possibility.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I'll take etem and smith pelley before I take bonino.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah I get that. But the "timing" and whatever else is not enough to get us the top 2 top 6 top pick package. That would be like :
Oshie shattenkirk 1st
Smith josi 1st
Stepan staal 1st
Gudbransson huberdeau 1st/ prospect
I can't really think of one from the ducks. But it's probably as unrealistic as the other ones.

Yeah, I agree we're not getting that back, I just think the Thornton trade really doesn't apply as a measuring stick in any way.

We should be able to get a decent return, and if we can't we should probably wait till the deadline. The reality is the only way we get value is futures, because we'll be moving him to a contender or an up and comer, so they won't want to tear apart their core.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We will be getting potential back. Players more than likely being held back by their systems.

 

[BankStreetParade]

How can anyone compare the current Spezza situation to Heatley or Thornton? Heatley was in full control of his destination. Thornton was never as good a player as Spezza when he was traded. Who was the last point per game player to be made available in trade? I can't even think of one in the last 10 years. Spezza is the best player to come on the trade market for ages. The return is going to match that.

 

[BondraTime]

How can anyone compare the current Spezza situation to Heatley or Thornton? Heatley was in full control of his destination. Thornton was never as good a player as Spezza when he was traded. Who was the last point per game player to be made available in trade? I can't even think of one in the last 10 years. Spezza is the best player to come on the trade market for ages. The return is going to match that.

Kovalchuk, Hossa, Heatley, St. Louis to name a few

 

[Qward]

reading twitter, amazing how many NYR fans think we would take Nash for Spezza.
Sorry, we tried to get him, he snubbed us, he is yours now. You want Spezza? Staal Brassard and a prospect.

 

[StefanW]

reading twitter, amazing how many NYR fans think we would take Nash for Spezza.
Sorry, we tried to get him, he snubbed us, he is yours now. You want Spezza? Staal Brassard and a prospect.

Seems to follow a general trend of fans wanting to trade a player they no longer value for one they now want. Just counter that we will gladly take Nash for Greening.

 

[Benjamin]

Nash is awful. I'd rather let Spezza walk as a UFA than take Nash.

 

[Knave]

How can anyone compare the current Spezza situation to Heatley or Thornton? Heatley was in full control of his destination. Thornton was never as good a player as Spezza when he was traded. Who was the last point per game player to be made available in trade? I can't even think of one in the last 10 years. Spezza is the best player to come on the trade market for ages. The return is going to match that.

You're right, he was better. 2 seasons before his trade he had a 100+ point season. As the Bruins traded him away he was on pace for 30+ goals, 80+ assists and he finished the season with 96 assists.

Thornton's best season in assists is higher than Spezza's career year with Heatley and Alfredsson.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Kovalchuk, Hossa, Heatley, St. Louis to name a few

Kovalchuk: offered $100+ million multiple times by the Thrashers. Deadline deal. Still returned a decent package given that it was a deadline day trade.
Hossa: no one knew he was available. Still traded for a guy who scored 40+ goals before his accident.
Heatley: as mentioned before, in control of his destination.
St. Louis: requested to be traded to New York specifically.

Again, how do any of those compare to the Spezza situation? Two of the players mentioned had NMC and only allowed their team to negotiate a trade to 1 team. Kovalchuk refused to sign a contract extension despite Atlanta's best efforts and it became a game of getting the most they could for him at the deadline. And Hossa was a blindside trade that still ended up paying off.

 

[Caeldan]

reading twitter, amazing how many NYR fans think we would take Nash for Spezza.
Sorry, we tried to get him, he snubbed us, he is yours now. You want Spezza? Staal Brassard and a prospect.

Seems to follow a general trend of fans wanting to trade a player they no longer value for one they now want. Just counter that we will gladly take Nash for Greening.

Staal, Brassard, Nash for Spezza and Greening?

Call me crazy, but that almost looks like it could be workable with a few tweaks of prospects/picks.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Kovalchuk, Hossa, Heatley, St. Louis to name a few

Kovalchuck is gone from the league... (great trade deadline pickup)

Hossa is NOT a PPG player (was signed and traded without anyone knowing, was NOT made available on the market)

Heatley is NOT a PPG player (and chose the team he went to and therefore was NOT 'available' on the market)

St. Louis is NOT a PPG player (and asked for a trade near the deadline at 38 YEARS OLD)

Aside from Kovy, none of those other players are in the same class or situation as 30 year old Spezza being shopped to the highest bidder on the open market. A guy who hasn't demanded a trade, but said that he'd be happy with one if Murray can swing it.

Not only that, but he has a low dollar hit, and gives the trading team the flexibility to sign him to fit their team financial structure rather than taking on a bad contract, or long term one, or both. They can also ship him off at the deadline if he won't sign an extension, to get back most, if not all of the assets they gave up for him.

This is a perfect signing scenario for a team, and not a trade detraction as people like to think.

He will be the clear #1 centre or a #1b on whichever team that trades for him. There hasn't been a player of this calibre available on the open market, with no negative trade demand, no character issues, no NTC, and no terrible long term contract to take away from his value, in a long time. Just a star centre looking for a fresh start and chance to play for the cup.

Whats not to like? We're gonna get a nice haul back, that's my take.

 

[Othello*]

Lol screw Nash. He curved us last time

 

[BankStreetParade]

You're right, he was better. 2 seasons before his trade he had a 100+ point season. As the Bruins traded him away he was on pace for 30+ goals, 80+ assists and he finished the season with 96 assists.

Thornton's highest season in assists is higher than Spezza's career year with Heatley and Alfredsson.

Thornton had greats like one hit wonder Cheechoo to feed.

Better? He had that one 100+ point season and had never scored more than 75 points in a season before the trade. How does that make him better?

Jason Spezza, meanwhile, multiple 80+ and 90+ point seasons, 3 of those seasons including 100+ pt paces. Also a way better goal scorer.

 

[83DIZ65]

It willprobably be Berglund + Rattie + 1st

I'd probably get them to throw in Jani Hakanpaa too... right handed defenseman and I think the best D they have in their system... 6'6 218, physical and can skate well... hes going to become a wicked defensive defenseman

If all of this including Hakanpaa was to come back I'd be ok with the trade.

 

[BondraTime]

Kovalchuk: offered $100+ million multiple times by the Thrashers. Deadline deal. Still returned a decent package given that it was a deadline day trade.
Hossa: no one knew he was available. Still traded for a guy who scored 40+ goals before his accident.
Heatley: as mentioned before, in control of his destination.
St. Louis: requested to be traded to New York specifically.

Again, how do any of those compare to the Spezza situation? Two of the players mentioned had NMC and only allowed their team to negotiate a trade to 1 team. Kovalchuk refused to sign a contract extension despite Atlanta's best efforts and it became a game of getting the most they could for him at the deadline. And Hossa was a blindside trade that still ended up paying off.

I didn't say that they were similar. You said you can't remember the last time a PPG player was traded, I was pointing out the obvious. Hossa was traded to Pittsburgh as well, and everyone knew he was on the block

 

[Caeldan]

Kovalchuck is gone from the league... (great trade deadline pickup)

Hossa is NOT a PPG player (was signed and traded without anyone knowing, was NOT made available on the market)

Heatley is NOT a PPG player (and chose the team he went to and therefore was NOT 'available' on the market)

St. Louis is NOT a PPG player (and asked for a trade near the deadline at 38 YEARS OLD)

Just so you have references:

Hossa was a PPG player at the time he was traded. Just because the public didn't know he was being shopped around - doesn't mean he wasn't on the 'GM Market' at the time.
And again he was 0.93PPG going to the Penguins.
Heatley was 0.88PPG when he was traded. He definitely limited what market he could be traded to I'll give you that.
Kovalchuk was a PPG player when traded.
St. Louis was 0.98PPG on the Lightning before being traded this year.

Spezza for reference this season was 0.88PPG.

So I'd say they actually all qualify for your original question.

 

[BondraTime]

Better? He had that one 100+ point season and had never scored more than 75 points in a season before the trade. How does that make him better?

Jason Spezza, meanwhile, multiple 80+ and 90+ point seasons, 3 of those seasons including 100+ pt paces. Also a way better goal scorer.

He was more than a PPG player in the dead puck era 2 season's prior to his trade, and had 33 points in 23 games the season he was dealt. He was no doubt the better player at the time of the trade. He won the friggen Art Ross and Hart trophy the same year.

 

[HockeySens]

Kovalchuck is gone from the league... (great trade deadline pickup)

Hossa is NOT a PPG player (was signed and traded without anyone knowing, was NOT made available on the market)

Heatley is NOT a PPG player (and chose the team he went to and therefore was NOT 'available' on the market)

St. Louis is NOT a PPG player (and asked for a trade near the deadline at 38 YEARS OLD)

Aside from Kovy, none of those other players are in the same class or situation as 30 year old Spezza being shopped to the highest bidder on the open market. A guy who hasn't demanded a trade, but said that he'd be happy with one if Murray can swing it.

Not only that, but he has a low dollar hit, and gives the trading team the flexibility to sign him to fit their team financial structure rather than taking on a bad contract, or long term one, or both. They can also ship him off at the deadline if he won't sign an extension, to get back most, if not all of the assets they gave up for him.

This is a perfect signing scenario for a team, and not a trade detraction as people like to think.

He will be the clear #1 centre or a #1b on whichever team that trades for him. There hasn't been a player of this calibre available on the open market, with no negative trade demand, no character issues, no NTC, and no terrible long term contract to take away from his value, in a long time. Just a star centre looking for a fresh start and chance to play for the cup.

Whats not to like? We're gonna get a nice haul back, that's my take.

Only one player from Spezza's draft that was better than spezza. And yes Kovalchuk is pretty much PPG. He was one of the best goalscorer at the time. Thrashers, got Oduya, Bergfors, Patrice Cormier and 1st rd in 2010 draft

Last 2 seasons prior to Ottawa trading hossa he averaged 80 points a season, good defensively and fast

Heatley, if you mean when he asked out of Ottawa, well, he had full control and the return wasnt good.

St.Louis? Comparing Spezza to St. Louis. Guy has a stanley cup, Hart and Art ross plus a leader.

Not everything revolves around being a PPG you know, especiaally if you have defensive problems and injury history. Spezza is a fantastic player but saying St. Louis, Kovalchuk, Hossa and Heatly are not in same class as Spezza is a joke.

Low dollar hit doesnt really matter to many teams in the league, its the cap hit that matters.