Speculation: All things Spezza Round II - This time it's business!

[Caeldan]

How are you not supposed to bash Murray if he trades Spezza for a 3rd liner that needs shoulder surgery?

That is an absolutely putrid return.

Trade Spezza for crap and re-signing Michalek is exactly what I expect to happen.

And you can't bash the owner for running us like a welfare team?

Why the hell not? They deserve it.

There are other threads for those purposes. While there is some overlap, the primary point of discussion should be Spezza.

I still don't think that Spezza HAS to be traded. I mean, the same quotes happened in 2010,and the same rumours again in 2011 and 2012.

If we aren't getting the return we want, I think Murray holds on until the trade deadline and sees where we are.

 

[HSF]

We can't go into next season with a captain controversy again

We will trade him before the season starts.... We aren't Vancouver

 

[OttawaSenators11]

What do u mean money issues? We have brought in talent every year.

You don't get!!! Yes, we have brought in talent, but the bottom line is the total number each year spent on this club and it has been embarrassing to say the least over the years.

Our core good enough to add on to and make a run considering all the cap space we have available, but he's reluctant to spend anything meaningful, which is why May says Spezza wants out.

 

[shibster]

We are rebuilding our youth took a step back last year. You need to build before u can win.

I think we already had a bunch of the important pieces. Trading one of the hardest pieces to acquire (1st line center) is a huge step backwards that we have no way of fixing. No big-time offensive prospect in the system, won't be drafting high enough to grab a player with Spezza's scoring ability, and we're too poor to afford the inferior kinds of 1st line centers who make it to free agency like Richards and Stastny.

I really believe spezza has had enough of these fans. He asked for a trade before cause he emotional at the time and the fans booed him.

I think it is clear he has made his mind

He has had enough, and it's totally understandable. If he's traded I won't begrudge him one bit. But... he had enough of the fans in the year that he got booed in the playoffs, too. He changed his mind from then to the extent that he wanted to be captain this year. Sometimes players change their minds, it happens. Winning changes everything.

 

[BankStreetParade]

If we're trading Spezza, the center piece of the trade should be a top 2 dman. Remodel the way this team plays. They have enough skill to score some goals, but it would be a roster better suited to playing better defensively and locking teams down and scoring on the transition where our speed and skill can get put to work.

Spezza for #2 dman, top 6 forward and prospect/draft pick. That's the ideal trade for me.

Then we can shuffle around some of our defensemen for offensive support.

 

[HSF]

If we're trading Spezza, the center piece of the trade should be a top 2 dman. Remodel the way this team plays. They have enough skill to score some goals, but it would be a roster better suited to playing better defensively and locking teams down and scoring on the transition where our speed and skill can get put to work.

Spezza for #2 dman, top 6 forward and prospect/draft pick. That's the ideal trade for me.

Then we can shuffle around some of our defensemen for offensive support.

you arent getting a top 2 defensemen alone for spezza

 

[OttawaSenators11]

If we're trading Spezza, the center piece of the trade should be a top 2 dman. Remodel the way this team plays. They have enough skill to score some goals, but it would be a roster better suited to playing better defensively and locking teams down and scoring on the transition where our speed and skill can get put to work.

Spezza for #2 dman, top 6 forward and prospect/draft pick. That's the ideal trade for me.

Then we can shuffle around some of our defensemen for offensive support.

I'll eat me shoe if we can get a return like that!

 

[HSF]

another poster (spezdispenser) made a good scenario


Trade Spezza for Berglund + Rattie + 1st

then 1st for Stewart

Macarthur - Turris - Ryan
Berglund - Zibanejad - Stewart
Hoffman - Smith - Stone

with Puemple Pageau and Rattie coming through the pipeline


that imo is a solid top 9 (Berglund can be put at center if Zibby sucks there)

 

[John Holmes*]

Stewart is garbage.

 

[StefanW]

How are you not supposed to bash Murray if he trades Spezza for a 3rd liner that needs shoulder surgery?

That is an absolutely putrid return.

Trade Spezza for crap and re-signing Michalek is exactly what I expect to happen.

And you can't bash the owner for running us like a welfare team?

Why the hell not? They deserve it.

You do realize that Spezza hasn't been traded yet, right? It should be easy to avoid bashing anyone for the return we got for Spezza when no return was been established yet. Bashing anyone based on pure speculation is pure unadulterated nonsense. Teams wont even present their best offers until a day or two before the draft begins, so anything circulating here or on Twitter has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

 

[BondraTime]

I want nothing to do with Stewart

 

[StefanW]

another poster (spezdispenser) made a good scenario


Trade Spezza for Berglund + Rattie + 1st

then 1st for Stewart

Macarthur - Turris - Ryan
Berglund - Zibanejad - Stewart
Hoffman - Smith - Stone

with Puemple Pageau and Rattie coming through the pipeline


that imo is a solid top 9 (Berglund can be put at center if Zibby sucks there)

This is very plausible, given that TM wants more 1st round picks and BM wants Stewart. However, the Sens also prioritized obtaining a first. I think the Berglund + for Spezza has legs, but I suspect that if we get Stewart it will involve salary being dumped the other way to make room for him. If we get a first in the Spezza deal I just can't see flipping it at this point.

 

[John Holmes*]

Guys like AJ and Garrioch get info directly from the management.

You can be pretty confident that Berglund has been discussed.

But that's a fair point. He has not made a bad Spezza trade yet.

Why is it that when we trade for a player we give up a lot (Ryan) but when we trade a player away, we get junk back? (Heatley)

 

[bingo bango bongo]

Somebody PLEASE explain this obsession with Stewart? He is LAZY. Goes to the net hard every now and then but not a player to be the centerpiece for a deal. He's a 25-35 point player. 40+ in a good season for him. Easily find that every summer as UFA.

There's a reason St. Louis shipped him off to a bottom feeder in a year they had cup hopes. Not good enough for a legit playoff team and arguable contender....but good enough for a middle of the pack Sens?

Might as well give a mid/late pick to Montreal for Rene Bourque. Doing them a favor and you still get a good but lazy and inconsistent player.

Stewart...yeeesh.

 

[HockeySens]

What do u mean money issues? We have brought in talent every year.

TThe dumbest thing a rebuilding team can do is spend to the cap before they are ready.... See Toronto

Without the emotional side involved MacArthur and Ryan in for Alfie and silverberg is brilliant and put us ahead imo. We basically brought in our current top line in the last few years

Not really.

Its more like talent in talent out or money in money out. Most of our talents came from the draft or some really good trades not spending.
Turris(Although we traded rundblad + possibly tarasenko/schwartz)-Im happy with this trade though.
Methot for Foligno
Alfredsson Walk
Conacher on waivers for hemsky
Ryan (this is probably the only one but then we lost some talent here too)
Spezza seems to go out(thats a huge talent out)

Im okay with lets not spend till we are ready but when you throwing away draft picks, waiving player to make room for a rental when you have like 10+ million in cap space then with that im not okay with

 

[bingo bango bongo]

Why is it that when we trade for a player we give up a lot (Ryan) but when we trade a player away, we get junk back? (Heatley)

Because when we trade a player it is public knowledge they want out.

And when we traded for Ryan it was a reactionary trade just after losing Alfie. Management had to sell some positives. "4x 30 goal scorer at 26 years old"

Totally different situations.

 

[shibster]

Spezza for Berglund + Rattie + 1st

I straight-up hate that return for Spezza. There's only the tiniest shred of hope of one of those assets becoming an impact player. Blues make that trade every day of the week.

If Spezza goes to the Blues I'd want at least Oshie or Schwartz coming back. People seem high on Shattenkirk, but I'd want to aim higher.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

I think people need to lower their expectations on the return for Spezza. Players like Spezza get dealt for a roster player, a decent to good prospect, and a draft pick, possibly a first-round pick but likely a second (can't use the Ryan deal as a comparable since Ryan had 2 years remaining on his deal while Spezza has one and age is a big factor). Look at the Iginla return - two middling prospects and a first-round pick. To ask for a top-pairing defenceman, a top-6 forward, and a first-round pick is the value of a truly elite player, which Spezza is not. The Sens would be fortunate to land a top-2 defenceman straight up for Spezza.

In some ways Spezza's situation is similar to that of Heatley's in that both players asked to be dealt and Murray has gone public with the trade demand. There's no way Murray can keep Spezza on the team without it being a distraction on the team throughout the season. If teams think Murray is demanding too much, they'll holdout on making a deal knowing that Murray's hands are tied.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

I straight-up hate that return for Spezza. There's only the tiniest shred of hope of one of those assets becoming an impact player. Blues make that trade every day of the week.

If Spezza goes to the Blues I'd want at least Oshie or Schwartz coming back. People seem high on Shattenkirk, but I'd want to aim higher.

Your expectations are way too high. Why would the Blues, who believe they are contenders, deal away core players? And as others have mentioned, Schwartz's value is higher than Spezza's - 21 years old, under team control for another 5 years, and already a top-6 forward with the potential to be a top-line LW.

Oshie might be available, although I think the Blues would want to pair Oshie up with Spezza.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Guys like AJ and Garrioch get info directly from the management.

You can be pretty confident that Berglund has been discussed.

But that's a fair point. He has not made a bad Spezza trade yet.

Why is it that when we trade for a player we give up a lot (Ryan) but when we trade a player away, we get junk back? (Heatley)

I kind of feel we traded junk plus a first rounder for Ryan.

Silf is a third liner and Noesen is coming off his second major knee surgery.

Does not the return for Ryan look similar to the return for Spezza then? And Ryan had two years left on his deal.

 

[Baby Ryan]

Rebulding teams don't trade away 1st rd picks for soon to be UFAs

Do we really have to keep going over this crap again? Jeez cmon.

The whining about management is ridiculous too, you want to whine go to the management thread. Holy mother...

Mods have their hands full here

 

[Hale The Villain]

Why is it that when we trade for a player we give up a lot (Ryan) but when we trade a player away, we get junk back? (Heatley)

We didn't give up a lot for Ryan. We gave up a 3rd liner with the potential to be a 2nd liner in Silfverberg, a potential 3rd liner in Noesen, and a 1st round pick that was expected to be in the 15-25 range. That's not a lot for a guy who had four straight 30G seasons before coming here, and is still fairly young at 27.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You have to give to get...unless you're trading with Ottawa, then you can dump your spare parts for a star player.

Seems the Trade Boards mentality has seeped into our forums.

At this rate, I'd rather hold onto Spezza for next season and go from there. If he walks for nothing, he walks. It's better than taking on garbage from another team and shoving our kids down the depth chart only to create more disgruntled players.

 

[HSF]

same i dont think we gave a whole lot for Ryan considering the type of player ryan is (1st liner)


fans tend to just overrate their own players and underrate others which is probably why it seems like that

 

[Karl Cowensson]

We are in year 4 of a 3 year rebuild plan! This was supposed to be a year in which we take a step forward but it's not happening because of $$ issues.
Don't let the rebuild crap fool you. It's just an excuse not to spend.

Ask Chicago and LA fans how long it takes to rebuild. As a rebuilding team, we were very fortunate to make the playoffs those 2 years and have a bit of success. As exciting as it was I think a lot of us realized the team over achieved. This year was certainly an under achievement, but at this point, just making the playoffs, adding young talent and developing existing talent is a win for the franchise.

Murray's mandate seems to be spend smart (CHEAP) and build pieces for the next GM and go for a cup then. Ideally we can get a younger top 6 winger for Zib, a young top 4 D to stabilize our defense and a 1st for Spezza.