Speculation: All things Spezza Round II - This time it's business!

[dan1el]

I still like the idea of a Spezza-Shattenkirk-O'reilly 3-way.

 

[Canadian Time]

Spezza is goodand will probably be ppg next year on a good team but i still dont think teams will offer anything substantial.

It depends if your substantial is the now or the future or both.

Again I'm going to go back to the Yashin trade because this one is unfolding in the same way. You should have seen the howls from Sens fans and the mocking from other teams. "You guys traded one of the best centres in the league for Bill freaking Muckalt?....ahahaha". It went on for months. It turned out to be one of the most lob-sided trades in NHL history. No one and I mean no one foresaw it playing out the way it did.

Be prepared to lose the internet wars for awhile but let it play out, sum of the parts and all that.

 

[Xspyrit]

You're going on about some stuff that doesn't matter.
For a team that has been bottom of the league in payroll for years - that is a good amount of money that could be used else where.
Not a lot of money in general for 3 players , but for us, i don't like it just because every nickel counts until proven otherwise.
When we re-sign 9MM , that is going to be close to $12M for players that can be replaced.
That's like 22% (give or take) of our expected payroll.

I care about the fanbase reputation for NHL players/prospects (see Spezza for example). I do not care about what hockey fans say at home, but on the internet, the writings remain.

If the budget is 57 M$, Phillips & Neil take about 7.7% of it (while taking 8.7% of the 23 spots). Even with Michalek, I don't think it will be will close to 22% unless MM9 gets paid 8.15 per season

Finally, yes their spots could be given to other players but the youth argument doesn't work with me (not saying you did). We already have plenty of youth, and a lot more coming in the next few years. As for "players that can be replaced", in theory, everyone can replaced. They are employees. Unique skills like Karsson are hard to find, but for most NHL players, they are all replaceable

People don't give a **** what Phillips is making. I'd still be pissed off if he was making 500k. I – and I presume most others – are more concerned about his detrimental play on the ice, and the fact that the contract prevents the team from going out to acquire someone who can actually improve this defence because the roster is full.

Maybe you don't care about the cap hit, but many do as well as Phillips presence

And for detrimental play on the ice, it is way overblown. Message boards are like riots on the street, instead of vandalism and violence, it creates paranoia and bias. Phillips didn't have a great season but he is on decline years and expectations should be set accordingly (this board is usually very unrealistic with this). Like for the evolution of the salary cap, people in general have trouble adjusting. Phillips is making 2.5 per which would have been 1.4 in 2005-06. He is now a veteran depth player (however I agree he was misused last season, particularly with PP time)

Anyway, what is actually happening for Phillips and Neil is what will eventually happen to guys like I dunno, Turris, MacArthur, Stone, Claesson (if they stay the rest of their careers with the Sens)??? Yikes. Do you understand why I hope this franchise get moved to Quebec?

I don't mind if people criticize players fairly within respect and in a civilized way, but not in the brainless way we often see. I know it's the repercussions of the internet anonymity but we had internet for a while now, it is possible to evolve.

We saw Yzerman hold out on trading MSL until he got what he wanted (the second first)

Murray needs to adopt this strategy: do not trade Spezza unless you are happy with return. Worst case scenario is he starts the year in Ottawa: oh woe is us, having to tolerate a PPG top line centre in our lineup!!

I'm pretty sure every NHL GM already have this strategy... lol

Unless when the situation is tense and repercussions are intangible (ex: Heatley). However, in the Heatley situation, how many teams could Murray accept offers from? Probably just one... Sucks that Heatley was such a primadonna, we could have gotten an even better return.

I think Spezza would be open to start the season with the Sens and prove to the NHL world that he is still a great layer, hence add up to his value. However, if he gets injured long-term, we are screwed for a potential trade

 

[x Karlsson x 65]

I still like the idea of a Spezza-Shattenkirk-O'reilly 3-way.

I do enjoy a good 3-way

 

[Icelevel]

I do enjoy a good 3-way

me too!

looks like we just need one more

(oh, oh yeah, right..)

 

[Rodzilla]

I still like the idea of a Spezza-Shattenkirk-O'reilly 3-way.

Don't know why Colorado would take Shattenkirk back as they did trade him.

I also don't see them getting Spezza, IMO

 

[medkit]

It's really too bad that they traded Perron to the Oiler's for scraps. He would've been a great starting point for a Spezza deal.

I agree completely. We had Stewart, Carrier, and those picks too. That's enough to work with for a Spezza deal right there. Our GM had a terrible year and as a result we have limited names and picks to work with.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I still like the idea of a Spezza-Shattenkirk-O'reilly 3-way.

This or Spezza-Shattenkirk-Eberle.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Very contradictory post.

I'm just pretty sure were going to be disappointed with return. No team is going to offer Murray franchise changing pieces like Oshie, Taresenko, Schwartz, Lindholm, Shattenkirk because it'll weaken there already contending team. The duck and blues dont need spezza to make the playoffs. Rumor has it the ducks dont even want to trade the 10th pick back for him.

 

[BondraTime]

I'm just pretty sure were going to be disappointed with return. No team is going to offer Murray franchise changing pieces like Oshie, Taresenko, Schwartz, Lindholm, Shattenkirk because it'll weaken there already contending team. The duck and blues dont need spezza to make the playoffs. Rumor has it the ducks dont even want to trade the 10th pick back for him.

What's that have to do with anything? They want Spezza to get through the playoffs. The whole gloom and doom angle is as bad as expecting a superstar back

 

[Super Cake]

I'm just pretty sure were going to be disappointed with return. No team is going to offer Murray franchise changing pieces like Oshie, Taresenko, Schwartz, Lindholm, Shattenkirk because it'll weaken there already contending team. The duck and blues dont need spezza to make the playoffs. Rumor has it the ducks dont even want to trade the 10th pick back for him.

Of course they don't need Spezza to make the playoffs. However, they may need Spezza to make it past the first round.

 

[18Hossa]

This or Spezza-Shattenkirk-Eberle.

Where can I sign?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

How about Vatanen, Theodore and a late first for spezza.

 

[StefanW]

I'm just pretty sure were going to be disappointed with return. No team is going to offer Murray franchise changing pieces like Oshie, Taresenko, Schwartz, Lindholm, Shattenkirk because it'll weaken there already contending team. The duck and blues dont need spezza to make the playoffs. Rumor has it the ducks dont even want to trade the 10th pick back for him.

First off, we will lose the trade by virtue of giving up the best player in the deal. However, it may not be a bad thing anyway considering we would have a tough time signing him a year from now. This team simply cannot afford to go 5 years X 7 MM or something along those lines.

In my mind the most interesting dynamic in the trade is the salary figures. If Colorado, for example, offered up Ryan O'Reilly straight up we would probably say no because we cannot afford a 6-6.5 MM hit for him. We are reduced to looking at guys in the 3-4 MM range which gives you a solid NHL player, but not a star.

Another important dynamic is the draft pick. BM made it very clear a half year ago, prior to the Spezza trade watche, that he wants to recover a first round pick. If he sticks to his guns it means getting a bit less value in the other piece(s) involved in the deal.

So if you are talking about franchise changing pieces coming back, IMO you are barking up the wrong tree. We will get value back for Spezza, but a lot of it will be deferred value caught up in picks, or potential, or budget space. That does not mean we will get hosed in the deal. Far from it. It just means we have to adjust our expectations based on the cues that BM is openly giving us in the media.

 

[HSF]

First off, we will lose the trade by virtue of giving up the best player in the deal. However, it may not be a bad thing anyway considering we would have a tough time signing him a year from now. This team simply cannot afford to go 5 years X 7 MM or something along those lines.

In my mind the most interesting dynamic in the trade is the salary figures. If Colorado, for example, offered up Ryan O'Reilly straight up we would probably say no because we cannot afford a 6-6.5 MM hit for him. We are reduced to looking at guys in the 3-4 MM range which gives you a solid NHL player, but not a star.

Another important dynamic is the draft pick. BM made it very clear a half year ago, prior to the Spezza trade watche, that he wants to recover a first round pick. If he sticks to his guns it means getting a bit less value in the other piece(s) involved in the deal.

So if you are talking about franchise changing pieces coming back, IMO you are barking up the wrong tree. We will get value back for Spezza, but a lot of it will be deferred value caught up in picks, or potential, or budget space. That does not mean we will get hosed in the deal. Far from it. It just means we have to adjust our expectations based on the cues that BM is openly giving us in the media.

If avs offered ror.. spezza would be traded by now. Not sure why u think we can't afford him. I personally wouldn't pay ror that much but that is as good an offer you will get and Ottawa would have made that deal.

 

[StefanW]

If avs offered ror.. spezza would be traded by now. Not sure why u think we can't afford him. I personally wouldn't pay ror that much but that is as good an offer you will get and Ottawa would have made that deal.

Spezza 4 MM out. ROR asking for about 6.5-ish. I suppose it could work if we force them to take MacArthur at 3.25 and call up a rookie making under 1 MM.

Still can't see it with Ryan's extension looming. If Ryan makes 6.5 as well, that would be close to 20MM tied up in three players (Karlsson, Ryan, O'Reilly). That is over 1/3 of the entire budget. It would be hard to win like that.

 

[BigRig4]

Spezza 4 MM out. ROR asking for about 6.5-ish. I suppose it could work if we force them to take MacArthur at 3.25 and call up a rookie making under 1 MM.

Still can't see it with Ryan's extension looming. If Ryan makes 6.5 as well, that would be close to 20MM tied up in three players (Karlsson, Ryan, O'Reilly). That is over 1/3 of the entire budget. It would be hard to win like that.

Could send Greening/Spezza out for ROR. No need to send out MacArthur.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

First off, we will lose the trade by virtue of giving up the best player in the deal. However, it may not be a bad thing anyway considering we would have a tough time signing him a year from now. This team simply cannot afford to go 5 years X 7 MM or something along those lines.

In my mind the most interesting dynamic in the trade is the salary figures. If Colorado, for example, offered up Ryan O'Reilly straight up we would probably say no because we cannot afford a 6-6.5 MM hit for him. We are reduced to looking at guys in the 3-4 MM range which gives you a solid NHL player, but not a star.

Another important dynamic is the draft pick. BM made it very clear a half year ago, prior to the Spezza trade watche, that he wants to recover a first round pick. If he sticks to his guns it means getting a bit less value in the other piece(s) involved in the deal.

So if you are talking about franchise changing pieces coming back, IMO you are barking up the wrong tree. We will get value back for Spezza, but a lot of it will be deferred value caught up in picks, or potential, or budget space. That does not mean we will get hosed in the deal. Far from it. It just means we have to adjust our expectations based on the cues that BM is openly giving us in the media.

False. We'd do that trade no questions asked. The guy is worth the salary aand Melnyk always said he'd spend more when it was appropriate, ie not just throwing money out the window.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Seriously reading the main board is making me mad as a Senators fans. I hope St-Louis doesn't get Spezza neither Stastny and get their ***** booted in the 1st round yet again. Seriously MSL, Rick Nash, Vanek and ect returned way more than their trash offers it's laughable (I know contracts and stuff are differents but overall not so much)

No jokes if I have to settle for Patrick ****ing Berglund I'll be one crazy pissed poster. He's not even in the same world of talent as Spezza and he's 26 years old, he's never going to get better, and he just had 32 pts on a waaaaaay better team than ours.

I am sad to see this is probably our last week with Spezza. I always believe in Murray, he usually makes good trades, and I'll wait before I bash him, but this is a really important trade here, can't come back with Berglund as the main piece, just can't

No kidding. Too many people on there who think they are the GM of their team and trying their best to put one over on other fan bases. It's pathetic.

Not worried about the Blues anyways. I have a feeling we're much more likely to make a trade with one of the Cali teams, or Chicago. St Louis is like they've always been - regular season contender, playoff pretender. No one serious about a ring wants to go there.

 

[BigRig4]

False. We'd do that trade no questions asked. The guy is worth the salary aand Melnyk always said he'd spend more when it was appropriate, ie not just throwing money out the window.

Quoting Melnyk probably isn't the best way to get your point across.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Quoting Melnyk probably isn't the best way to get your point across.

I'm using a combination of what's been said AND common sense. I know people around here would like to believe we'll never spend on a superstar ever again but that's just based on assumptions. No team would ever refuse such an offer.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

We would

We're broke

For now

 

[BonkTastic]

How about Vatanen, Theodore and a late first for spezza.

We'd do this super-easily, IMO.

Doubt Anaheim does, however. No way they'd give up BOTH blueliners. Plus a 1st? Great trade for us, though.

 

[BigRig4]

I'm using a combination of what's been said AND common sense. I know people around here would like to believe we'll never spend on a superstar ever again but that's just based on assumptions. No team would ever refuse such an offer.

What's been said: “We’re still going to spend wisely,†he said, suggesting he does not intend to shell out the maximum permitted under salary cap rules. “Just because you have extra money in your pocket, doesn’t mean you go out and spend it.â€

Common Sense: Melnyk hasn't greatly increased his salary payroll since joining the team. Only reason we were at cap during the playoff run is because the cap was lower. Now that it's raising he won't change the salary payroll. Says he expects our team to be much better next season but we'll be 15 mil under the cap.

No team would ever refuse such an offer: Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk strongly suggested in an interview with a local newspaper this week that his team was faced with a decision in July: either meet longtime captain Daniel Alfredsson's contract demands or go out and make a trade for an impact forward like Bobby Ryan. Melnyk told the Ottawa Citizen in a report published Monday the club would not have been able to do both.

 

[HSF]

Spezza 4 MM out. ROR asking for about 6.5-ish. I suppose it could work if we force them to take MacArthur at 3.25 and call up a rookie making under 1 MM.

Still can't see it with Ryan's extension looming. If Ryan makes 6.5 as well, that would be close to 20MM tied up in three players (Karlsson, Ryan, O'Reilly). That is over 1/3 of the entire budget. It would be hard to win like that.

What is the budget? Melnyk never stated that the budget for last year is the same as this year


Actually Dorian said we will be active come July 1st so clearly there is money to spend 'wisely'