All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread V - We have no goalies?!?

[Navin R Slavin]

I refuse to believe they actually had any hope of signing Hamilton with the offer they apparently made. They allowed Hamilton to speak with other teams and they knew the rumored prices other teams were willing to pay him. And since we've known Hamilton's asking price for a year now, one that more closely matched what other teams were offering him, why would they expect him to take a much lower offer?

Yup. Either DW is lying or he's stupid. And moves from the last couple of years haven't been stupid, but hey, maybe we've found the stupid threshold.

Honestly I just wish he'd shut up until the roster is complete.

 

[Wolfpuck]

Yup. Either DW is lying or he's stupid. And moves from the last couple of years haven't been stupid, but hey, maybe we've found the stupid threshold.

Honestly I just wish he'd shut up until the roster is complete.

Whatever Waddell is, he’s 100% confident!

 

[Brock Anton]

I refuse to believe they actually had any hope of signing Hamilton with the offer they apparently made. They allowed Hamilton to speak with other teams and they knew the rumored prices other teams were willing to pay him. And since we've known Hamilton's asking price for a year now, one that more closely matched what other teams were offering him, why would they expect him to take a much lower offer?

We have no idea what anyone else was offering him other than the Devils. For all we know, everyone else could've been offering something in the $7-8M range and then New Jersey came in with $9M over the weekend and everyone backed off.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

You have no idea what anyone else was offering him other than the Devils. For all we know, everyone else could've been offering something in the $7-8M range and then New Jersey came in with $9M over the weekend and everyone backed off.

The rumors of teams offering him $9 million+ started shortly after we allowed him to speak with other teams. Hell, I’ll go back in my post history, because I’m pretty sure I predicted this exact deal to the Devils a month and a half ago.

EDIT:

Gap in contract talks with Hamilton

If some team is offering him $9 million long term (say 7 years) and he offers us a chance to beat that offer, do you think we should do it?

Gap in contract talks with Hamilton

I picked that number because he's apparently looking for a contract similar to Pieterangelo's, and there are a lot of stupid, desperate teams that will likely give him $9+ long term. You know the Devils or the Leafs (hometown boy!) or someone out there is going to give him a contract they're probably going to regret.

 

[Brock Anton]

The rumors of teams offering him $9 million+ started shortly after we allowed him to speak with other teams. Hell, I’ll go back in my post history, because I’m pretty sure I predicted this exact deal to the Devils a month and a half ago.

EDIT:

Gap in contract talks with Hamilton



Gap in contract talks with Hamilton

Like, props on that call with NJ at $9M, but nothing there really proves that anyone else was willing to go that high with him. All that's there is a post saying Chris Johnston suggested that teams might be willing to go $8M+. My thing is this, if he was offered 7/63 way back when we first gave his agent permission to shop around, one would think that source would've reported it back then, in an attempt to either A) jack up the price (if the source was on Dougie's end) or B) scare teams off (if it was a NJ source), no?

It's why I think New Jersey came in with that offer sometime around the draft. Whoever was left in the running was offering anything in the $7-8M range and NJ knew they couldn't get him at that number, so they used the Jones contract as a base and came in with $9M to elevate their chances. Personally, I believe if the price was always anything close to $9 million, we would've traded his rights a month ago.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

So you're saying that an NHL GM shouldn't have the basic situational awareness of a message board poster? C'mon.

And besides: DW was expressing confidence that they'd be able to sign Dougie as recently as, what, three days ago? When the actual NJ details were already public.

$9m was always in the range of possibilities. If DW simply chose not to believe that, that's on him. There should be zero surprise that this is how it went down.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

So you're saying that an NHL GM shouldn't have the basic situational awareness of a message board poster? C'mon.

And besides: DW was expressing confidence that they'd be able to sign Dougie as recently as, what, three days ago? When the actual NJ details were already public.

$9m was always in the range of possibilities. If DW simply chose not to believe that, that's on him. There should be zero surprise that this is how it went down.

I assure you we are all exceptionally smart and good-looking.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

So its wrong for him to be confident about signing a guy to 56 million in a state with lesser taxes and a with a competitive team vs 63 million with the opposite?

This is quite a reach just to hate on DW.

 

[SlavinAway]

So its wrong for him to be confident about signing a guy to 56 million in a state with lesser taxes and a with a competitive team vs 63 million with the opposite?

This is quite a reach just to hate on DW.

Yep. 100% this.

 

[SlavinAway]

Running with the Smith signing and the thought that Gardiner going to be gotten rid of somehow…

What about Arizona?

They have a current lack of NHL defenseman and they also are rumored to have some of their forwards on the market, like Dvorak or Schmaltz. I wonder if you could pry one of them away by adding a decent pick, prospect or combo of the two with Gardiner’s contract also going that way. They’ve certainly shown a willingness to take on bad deals for picks/prospects so far this summer. The braintrust might prefer a younger F with term to taking another risk with a guy like Tarasenko.

I don’t think there’s a chance at all that you get Taresenko for just Gardiner.

What picks/prospects would we have to add (or be comfortable adding) to Gardiner for Dvorak?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

What picks/prospects would we have to add (or be comfortable adding) to Gardiner for Dvorak?

Let’s say it is a 2nd to take Gardiner.

Suzuki, Bokk, and Honka/Sellgren/Keane for Dvorak

 

[mikeyfan]

Gardiner, Bokk, both of our 2022 3rds to Detroit for Colorado’s 4th

 

[Blueline Bomber]

So its wrong for him to be confident about signing a guy to 56 million in a state with lesser taxes and a with a competitive team vs 63 million with the opposite?

This is quite a reach just to hate on DW.

When Dougie made it clear from the beginning of the negotiations that he wanted a Pieterangelo-type contract, then yes, being confident you can sign him for the apparent offers we made is worthy of criticism.

 

[DaveG]

Any of those guys going to cost a bunch? I feel like those 4 probably won’t cost a ton.

Thomas should be around 4-4.5 I'd imagine

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

When Dougie made it clear from the beginning of the negotiations that he wanted a Pieterangelo-type contract, then yes, being confident you can sign him for the apparent offers we made is worthy of criticism.

Contracts are negotiations. Just because they start at Piets money doesn’t mean it ends there. We also offered 5.5 million less than Pietrangelo. 10% off from what Hamilton wanted to be at the start, that is within negotiation range.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Thomas should be around 4-4.5 I'd imagine

Kyrou may get a decent raise as well, now that I look at it. I don’t think Barb and Sanford get much than cheaper 1 year deals. It may be tight to fit to all 4 in there. The gap isn’t huge.

 

[Chrispy]

Contracts are negotiations. Just because they start at Piets money doesn’t mean it ends there. We also offered 5.5 million less than Pietrangelo. 10% off from what Hamilton wanted to be at the start, that is within negotiation range.

Yes, but that final offer came after he had a $63M offer in hand.

Could 8 years, $56M total have landed Hamilton during the regular season or last off-season rather than $6.5M AAV for likely fewer years? We will never know.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Contracts are negotiations. Just because they start at Piets money doesn’t mean it ends there. We also offered 5.5 million less than Pietrangelo. 10% off from what Hamilton wanted to be at the start, that is within negotiation range.

Allegedly we started at Krug-like contract while Dougie started at Pieterangelo.

Which means we went from $6.5 million at the start of negotiations to...either $6.3 or "around $7". That's not a negotiation. That's a "Take this number, end of conversation."

And yes, apparently negotiations started and ended at Pieterangelo money, since that is, in fact, what he got.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Yes, but that final offer came after he had a $63M offer in hand.

Could 8 years, $56M total have landed Hamilton during the regular season or last off-season rather than $6.5M AAV for likely fewer years? We will never know.

We’re talking about a 4-4.5million difference when looking at state taxes difference. Players have sacrificed more than that before to stay on a winning team.

Yzerman made TB into what it is by asking players to take less to win. Yzerman was a genius. Only Carolina is cheap and their GM is confident idiot because we do the same.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Allegedly we started at Krug-like contract while Dougie started at Pieterangelo.

Which means we went from $6.5 million at the start of negotiations to...either $6.3 or "around $7". That's not a negotiation. That's a "Take this number, end of conversation."

And yes, apparently negotiations started and ended at Pieterangelo money, since that is, in fact, what he got.

So he got Piet money to go to a crap team. Crap teams overpay all the time for talent to try to jump start their team. Doesn’t mean our offer wasn’t fair / comparable to other offers. Typically you are confident in your chances if you make a fair / comparable offer. Dougie chose to go to the bad team. Doesn’t mean the GM is bad or wrong for being confident.

you are hardcore reaching just to hate on the mgmt team here.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The bottom line is that no GM should *ever* be "surprised" when a guy who says "I'm gonna test free agency" does exactly that, and then leaves for more money.

A month ago, we were saying "hey, maybe it's smart to let Dougie see what the market is, and then he'll see that it's not so much better out there, and he'll be happy to sign with us!"

There's an axiom in business: never force the customer to incur a switching cost. If the customer is happy, don't do things that give them the opportunity to evaluate the market, because once they're forced to do that work, then you're at square one again, competing with everyone else on even terms.

Now, I'm not saying that DW was wrong to pass on Dougie. I have no idea whether he's worth that money or not. But to put on your shocked face when lose a guy to free agency when *you encouraged that guy to evaluate the free agent market* is just ludicrous. Ludicrous.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Who is shocked he left? Question the decision? Sure. But shocked, nah.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I'm not questioning anything about the decision itself. It's fine.

I'm questioning DW's veracity when he says he's surprised by the decision. That's nonsense. Literally no one else was surprised by this decision.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I'm not questioning anything about the decision itself. It's fine.

I'm questioning DW's veracity when he says he's surprised by the decision. That's nonsense. Literally no one else was surprised by this decision.

Without privy to the actual conversations between the two parties, why are arguing over how DW should react to it?

 

[DougieSmash]

Dvorak is nice but another small forward. We are softest team in the league.

Imagine this against Bruins, they add Foligno, Nosek, Haula and Forbort rofl. We need power forward, we already lost McGinn and Foegs, two good forecheckers with physical game