All purpose trade/roster building thread the 13th

[WreckingCrew]

I don't know if CBJ would trade in division, but Merzlikins would be a good target. FLA has Bobrovsky, Dreidger, Montembeault, and Knight. Driedger looked good this year and could be a solid 1B.

He played 12 games last year and has 15 total NHL games...not sure I'd bank on him being a 1B just yet. His stats in both the AHL & NHL from last year are great, but just 2 seasons ago he was an ECHL/AHL tweener. Admittedly I haven't watched him play much to know how good he is or how he plays stylistically. Did something finally click for him or was this past season the statistical anomaly?

 

[spockBokk]

Count me in the camp of wanting a goalie that at least has an established history of being a competent #1, not a backup on the cusp, been there , done that. It ain’t pretty.

Of course, that’s my preference, but who knows if they’re even able to take a swing on a goalie. Seems like a lot of stuff would have to fall into place quickly for that to actually happen...the trade for an actual #1 would need to be concurrent with the dumping of Mrazek or Reimer

 

[bleedgreen]

Not that Sara is the ideal source for what’s going on but I found it interesting that during her cap analysis article for this off season she brushed over the goalies a bit suggesting we’ve got bigger issues on the horizon and we’re probably going to roll with what we have at net. In generally she seemed to be setting the tone of a quiet off season. Maybe re sign Vatanen but otherwise go with what we have at D as well.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we go into next season with essentially the same team. See if Tro and Skjei have a bigger impact long term.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Not that Sara is the ideal source for what’s going on but I found it interesting that during her cap analysis article for this off season she brushed over the goalies a bit suggesting we’ve got bigger issues on the horizon and we’re probably going to roll with what we have at net. In generally she seemed to be setting the tone of a quiet off season. Maybe re sign Vatanen but otherwise go with what we have at D as well.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we go into next season with essentially the same team. See if Tro and Skjei have a bigger impact long term.

She also thought the pick we traded for Skjei became 1OA. But seriously, with cap space being an at absolute premium this off-season I think we’ll see very little movement. We target value and I don’t believe there will be a lot of value to be had in player for picks trades (aka cap space).

If we can find a taker for a forward, maybe we could another shot at a LW.

 

[bleedgreen]

She also thought the pick we traded for Skjei became 1OA. But seriously, with cap space being an at absolute premium this off-season I think we’ll see very little movement. We target value and I don’t believe there will be a lot of value to be had in player for picks trades (aka cap space).

If we can find a taker for a forward, maybe we could another shot at a LW.

I view her as a bit of a company mouthpiece. Meaning whatever message they want out there she tends to be the voice on some levels. I only
mention her because I think they don’t want us expecting moves like last summer. Whether that’s a smoke screen or not we’ll see.

I think you’re right. Even if we wanted to get more done this won’t be the off season to accomplish it. A good year to be Ottawa though.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I view her as a bit of a company mouthpiece. Meaning whatever message they want out there she tends to be the voice on some levels. I only
mention her because I think they don’t want us expecting moves like last summer. Whether that’s a smoke screen or not we’ll see.

I think you’re right. Even if we wanted to get more done this won’t be the off season to accomplish it. A good year to be Ottawa though.

Is it mouthpiece or is there office politics? People pay for The Athletic to get more than game recaps and interviews. Those extra story lines require a working business relationship.

Dave O'brien that covers the Atlanta Braves for The Athletic is the same way. He has contradicted himself one year later after the Braves made off-season moves. I think it is more of a not turning over the apple cart type stuff over being a straight mouthpiece.

 

[spockBokk]

I’m not expecting anything too drastic. I do think there’s enough smoke to suggest them doing something goalie-wise. I mean, there are so many available, now is the time.

I also expect 1 of Gardiner, Dzingel or Niederreiter dealt in a cap for cap type deal. Other than that, I’m sure they sniff around everything and there likely be rumors to come out of that, but I don’t see anything major actually happening.

Give me a more stable duo in net and turn Gardiner/Niederreiter into Hornquist or the like and I’m good. Also, figure out a way to keep Vatanen and Hamilton and I’m real good.

And draft Holloway or Jarvis...

 

[hblueridgegal]

Seeing how they won't confront issues head-on themselves or have lost some credibility within their audience with what they do offer up, it often appears that what is passed along is a coy attempt to manage and placate the fanbase given her reach. It's the same as the vaguery and fluff that the two Mikes offer up on their various platforms - very little substance most of the time.

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

Not that Sara is the ideal source for what’s going on but I found it interesting that during her cap analysis article for this off season she brushed over the goalies a bit suggesting we’ve got bigger issues on the horizon and we’re probably going to roll with what we have at net. In generally she seemed to be setting the tone of a quiet off season. Maybe re sign Vatanen but otherwise go with what we have at D as well.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we go into next season with essentially the same team. See if Tro and Skjei have a bigger impact long term.

When I read that article I got the sense that:

1. The front office feels like they "over tweaked" the defense last off-season. Too much turnover lead to inconsistent play. We have 7 NHL caliber defensemen signed for 20-21 and cohesion > any potential personnel upgrade. With the increased number of high danger chances we gave up in 19-20, I can see where this line of thinking holds weight.
2. In the playoffs, the goalies did their jobs and posted good numbers. However, against Boston we were out matched physically and didn't score enough goals to win some of the games. Therefore goaltending was not the issue, but goal scoring and team toughness is where the front office would like to improve.
3. Due to the flat cap and financial uncertainty of no fans, the front office does not want to increase payroll in any way. The only way we address the forwards and goal scoring is if we are able to move Nino/Dzingel/Gardiner to free up real dollars.
4. Vatanen is favored over Gardiner, but unless Gardiner is moved we will not sign Vatanen.
5. Signing Fleury and Foegele "should" not be an issue. But if they refuse to sign for what the front office wants, then they will be Faulked (or Lindholmed or Hanifined or Forslunded or Checkersed..) as we have seen time and again.

The article did give a grim outlook towards potential off-season improvements. I think it has a lot to do with the likely extreme difficulty of moving the less-than-desirable players/contracts due to Covid.

 

[raynman]

This f***in virus man

 

[Stickpucker]

Our previous moves haven’t all worked out very well. We are cap restrained. I don’t believe anyone is taking one of our goalies without us taking the same money back. This makes moving one our goalies and then beating market price for a ufa less than likely. I’m more worried about signing Dougie at this point.

Really big issue is that we are officially in our window to win a cup based on age. This is this groups prime....right now. Every year we don’t take a stab we are wasting the best years of these players careers. Slavin/Pesce/Dougie(?)/Skjei/Aho/TT and I think Svech are all where they need to be. All the others are prime aged as well including Trocheck, Marty, Foegele, with young legs in Geekie/Necas/hopefully Bean pushing their way in the picture.

Wherever the gaps are this management is on the clock to make that core win a cup or at least start threatening. We clearly aren’t there yet. We can’t just hope on the current group improving.

I'm not so sure I agree with this logic. I mean a lot of the contenders have their core pieces in their late 20s early 30s. Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, TB....following this logic I think our "window" is more like the next 10-12 years rather than the next 5 years. I also don't think you can name a 8 player core it needs to be smaller for purposes of looking at a larger sustained window.

I'd say the core is probably Slavin, Svech, Aho.....maybe someone else? I think resigning Aho in 4 years will be a big deal.

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

He played 12 games last year and has 15 total NHL games...not sure I'd bank on him being a 1B just yet. His stats in both the AHL & NHL from last year are great, but just 2 seasons ago he was an ECHL/AHL tweener. Admittedly I haven't watched him play much to know how good he is or how he plays stylistically. Did something finally click for him or was this past season the statistical anomaly?

In fairness I did say he "could" be a 1B. He is far from proven. But with all this talk of acquiring high dollar, over the hill goalies who have shown to be on a steep decline, and gambling that they return to form, is it any worse of an idea to target a cheap unproven young goalie who has put up good numbers on a bad team and gamble that he can keep up the good play? Either way it is a crap shoot, but one costs a hell of a lot less.

 

[hblueridgegal]

How hard do the agents of these guys work to help find them new places to land if, say, a player does not like it here or aren't a good fit in the system/coach or they know they're likely a trade option or know the money is going to be an issue?

Aho's agent seemed to take control of the situation - of course, he had a valued player to work with, too.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Priority #1 should be reallocating the money spent on LHD in some way. Semin's buyout will cover Hamilton's raise, but Svechnikov's $7 mil+ bump is coming from elsewhere on the roster. A starter + cheap backup or another platoon is going to run ~$6.5 mil; it's not coming from there. Replacing McGinn, Martinook, Dzingel (or whoever he's replaced with this Summer) and Trocheck/Niederreiter with cheap young players does the job, but that will really thin out the forward group. I don't see how $9.3 mil spent on Skjei and Gardiner works past next season. Frankly, it's not a good use of Svechnikov and Necas' ELC savings in 20-21 either. In this environment, a de Haan-like soft deal for Gardiner is unlikely. If there's nothing interesting on the cap dump swap front, gambling on Fleury and trading Skjei, even if it's for less than what they paid 6 months ago, may be the way to go.

 

[Unsustainable]

So thinking from the teams wants:

Svech- Aho- TT
???? - Tro - Necas
Foegele - Staal - ????
Martinook - Geeks - McGinn

Slavin - Hamilton
Skjei - Pesce
Fluery - Vatanen

I think Dzingle should stay. Find a good RW for Staals heavy line and we have a good group.

 

[spockBokk]

So thinking from the teams wants:

Svech- Aho- TT
???? - Tro - Necas
Foegele - Staal - ????
Martinook - Geeks - McGinn

Slavin - Hamilton
Skjei - Pesce
Fluery - Vatanen

I think Dzingle should stay. Find a good RW for Staals heavy line and we have a good group.

I like Svechnikov away from the Finns to spread things out. I think ideally they’d love a big, top 6 RS forward to play with Aho/TT.

I also like Dzingel and he should have a chip on his shoulder after last season went. Does he fit in the bottom 6? Maybe on a secondarily second scoring line with Geekie and Foegele/Niederreiter, then just let J Staal do his thing with Martinook and McGinn.

That D is drool-worthy, but I think they’re likely stuck with Gardiner.

 

[bleedgreen]

When I read that article I got the sense that:

1. The front office feels like they "over tweaked" the defense last off-season. Too much turnover lead to inconsistent play. We have 7 NHL caliber defensemen signed for 20-21 and cohesion > any potential personnel upgrade. With the increased number of high danger chances we gave up in 19-20, I can see where this line of thinking holds weight.
2. In the playoffs, the goalies did their jobs and posted good numbers. However, against Boston we were out matched physically and didn't score enough goals to win some of the games. Therefore goaltending was not the issue, but goal scoring and team toughness is where the front office would like to improve.
3. Due to the flat cap and financial uncertainty of no fans, the front office does not want to increase payroll in any way. The only way we address the forwards and goal scoring is if we are able to move Nino/Dzingel/Gardiner to free up real dollars.
4. Vatanen is favored over Gardiner, but unless Gardiner is moved we will not sign Vatanen.
5. Signing Fleury and Foegele "should" not be an issue. But if they refuse to sign for what the front office wants, then they will be Faulked (or Lindholmed or Hanifined or Forslunded or Checkersed..) as we have seen time and again.

The article did give a grim outlook towards potential off-season improvements. I think it has a lot to do with the likely extreme difficulty of moving the less-than-desirable players/contracts due to Covid.

I agree with all those points overall. They know they overdid a reshuffle of the D and it hurt them, but likely felt adding a Skjei was important to the shape of the top 4. I’m sure they would move Jake if they could to make some moves and yes potentially keep Sammy. Goalies aren’t the issue, I think the playoffs showed that and I’ve been saying that in generally. We’re talking about goalies every day and we have two goalies signed for next year that got us to the second round of the playoffs despite no Pesce, no second line support and a lack of toughness.

I can see Rod bemoaning the loss of Edmunson’s physicality and asking for something with some grit in the lineup in general.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'm not so sure I agree with this logic. I mean a lot of the contenders have their core pieces in their late 20s early 30s. Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, TB....following this logic I think our "window" is more like the next 10-12 years rather than the next 5 years. I also don't think you can name a 8 player core it needs to be smaller for purposes of looking at a larger sustained window.

I'd say the core is probably Slavin, Svech, Aho.....maybe someone else? I think resigning Aho in 4 years will be a big deal.

Aho is likely putting up his best offense individually right now, scorers tend to in their early to mid 20’s. If we create a line that has crazy chemistry of course that can extend later but his ability to grab a moment solo is likely hitting its zenith over the next few years. The defense may lose Dougie after this year and look different and Pesce/Slavin have their quickest feet over the next couple of years before they start sitting back a more. They’re in their primes right now. Svech is an impact right now. Teams have shorter windows these days. Maybe there’s an additional window in a few years but we’re pretty clearly to me in a window right now.

 

[Svechhammer]

I like Svechnikov away from the Finns to spread things out. I think ideally they’d love a big, top 6 RS forward to play with Aho/TT.

I also like Dzingel and he should have a chip on his shoulder after last season went. Does he fit in the bottom 6? Maybe on a secondarily second scoring line with Geekie and Foegele/Niederreiter, then just let J Staal do his thing with Martinook and McGinn.

That D is drool-worthy, but I think they’re likely stuck with Gardiner.

I don't think we are necessarily stuck with Gards. There's always a taker if we're willing to move someone. I just don't think we like what it is going cost for us to do that.

 

[spockBokk]

I don't think we are necessarily stuck with Gards. There's always a taker if we're willing to move someone. I just don't think we like what it is going cost for us to do that.

That’s just it, I don’t see this front office “paying” off a team to take their crap contracts. If Gardiner is dealt, I think it would be 1-1, to a team that has an underperforming, bad contract of their own. And both teams hope a change of scenery pays off for the player they acquire.

Now, ideally you’d love to deal Gardiner to a team like NJD or DET for a pick, but in this environment, that’s incredibly unlikely. Playoff and right-before-Covid Gardiner really wasn’t that bad of a player. It’s not the worst thing if he sticks around another year.

 

[bleedgreen]

That’s just it, I don’t see this front office “paying” off a team to take their crap contracts. If Gardiner is dealt, I think it would be 1-1, to a team that has an underperforming, bad contract of their own. And both teams hope a change of scenery pays off for the player they acquire.

Now, ideally you’d love to deal Gardiner to a team like NJD or DET for a pick, but in this environment, that’s incredibly unlikely. Playoff and right-before-Covid Gardiner really wasn’t that bad of a player. It’s not the worst thing if he sticks around another year.

Which is what’s going to happen. He’s going to get a chance to play himself out of this. I agree we’re likely only moving him in a trade that brings back something similar in terms of a contract.

 

[spockBokk]

Which is what’s going to happen. He’s going to get a chance to play himself out of this. I agree we’re likely only moving him in a trade that brings back something similar in terms of a contract.

I mean, Fleury-Gardiner was really good against the Rangers and I thought held their own against Boston. Having a player like Gardiner on your 3rd pair is a luxury.

Conversely, that 3rd pair likely will cost over $6M after Fleury is re-signed, not ideal. And then, there’s the issue of blocking Bean.

 

[bleedgreen]

I mean, Fleury-Gardiner was really good against the Rangers and I thought held their own against Boston. Having a player like Gardiner on your 3rd pair is a luxury.

Conversely, that 3rd pair likely will cost over $6M after Fleury is re-signed, not ideal. And then, there’s the issue of blocking Bean.

I don’t know that management is high on Bean in terms of having a spot moving forward. We seem to like vets. Fleury plays a d first game and he’s had a hell of a time earning his spot. I’m trying to imagine Bean clearing all the hurdles Fleury has, not seeing it. I’m wondering if we view him as an asset that’s going to get us the player we want or pays off our expansion draft fee.

 

[spockBokk]

I don’t know that management is high on Bean in terms of having a spot moving forward. We seem to like vets. Fleury plays a d first game and he’s had a hell of a time earning his spot. I’m trying to imagine Bean clearing all the hurdles Fleury has, not seeing it. I’m wondering if we view him as an asset that’s going to get us the player we want or pays off our expansion draft fee.

Yeah, it would make sense for him to have gotten more than 2 games so far if they really believed in him, especially after the injuries last year. I like the idea of trading him at the draft for a comparable pick or expansion exempt forward or goalie prospect (really lookin to NJD here with all those 1sts and need for LD).

I don't like the idea of them using him as a sweetener for Francis though. I hope they learned from all the teams that Vegas ripped off. I think it's best just to accept you're going to lose a good player, lose such player and move on. If Bean is who Francis wants, if he's still Canes' property and if he hasn't blown the doors off in the big leagues, just let Francis have him, alone, and that's it, in my view.

But, flip side, who knows what sort of cap issues they may be in with Svechnikov and hopefully Hamilton extensions kicking in. They may need to pay Francis to take a contract.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yeah, if would make sense for him to have gotten more than 2 games so far if they really believed in him, especially after the injuries last year. I like the idea of trading him at the draft for a comparable pick or expansion exempt forward or goalie prospect (really lookin to NJD here with all those 1sts and need for LD).

I don't like the idea of them using him as a sweetener for Francis though. I hope they learned from all the teams that Vegas ripped off. I think it's best just to accept you're going to lose a good player, lose such player and move on. If Bean is who Francis wants, if he's still Canes' property and if he hasn't blown the doors off in the big leagues, just let Francis have him, alone, and that's it, in my view.

I agree especially with the expansion draft part. Just accept it and move on. Maybe Francis says he wants Skjei because he’s going to need some vets and the guy is in his prime. If we didn’t protect him. Then they negotiate and we have to throw something in so he takes Bean, which is probably who he wanted anyways.

Francis has a much different landscape to work in for his draft vs Vegas. He’s going to have to pressure some teams to get the goods, and they’re going to be smarter this time around. No one should be offering the side deals like last time, Vegas is built off those side deals.