All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread - start of 2021 season edition

[hblueridgegal]

Seattle Kraken need a coach, and Bruce Boudreau is beyond interested - (The Athletic)

If selected, how much sway would he have with the Kraken's choices? The article states that they have had the green light to hire the head coach since November.

Boudreau has a bit of understanding of the Kraken’s landscape. He’s aware that some of the young players who have become cornerstone pieces with the Carolina Hurricanes were drafted and developed under Ron Francis’ time in Raleigh. Boudreau said those talents Francis drafted share common traits in that they possess speed and work ethic.

 

[spockBokk]

I like Geekie a lot and I wouldn’t take him over Fleury, and if I was building a team I’d have a hard time taking him over Skjei or even Gardiner (especially if the Canes paid a price to take either of the second two). They’re all top four D. Geekie is not a great skater so it’s really hard to imagine him above the bottom six.

Equally hard to imagine that there are that many better dmen out there while not being any role playing forwards. Being an expansion team I’m not sure the rfa aspect of Geekie is that important. They’ve got a clean slate and will need to take on salaries. Geekie of course would be attractive but I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on to believe RF will see a bottom six forward as having more value. Of course sweeteners may change that.

Vegas didn’t take everyone you’d think but a lot of people thought they’d take guys I wouldn’t have taken either. The side deals were everything to that draft. As well as them taking guys they suspected would have trade value moving forward. Didn’t they take like 9 nhl dmen? They knew they’d have trade value.

The problem Seattle will have with taking on D as potential trade chips is the flat cap. Sure, teams always need D, but there are precious few teams with cap space. The angle
Francis has to play is the fact that he can use up a certain percentage of his shiny and new cap space on other teams’ garbage contracts. I think Francis will not be looking to contend immediately, a la Vegas, but I do think he will extract his pound of flesh from teams in cap hell in the form of futures.

I think Francis looks to build a team like he did with the Canes, with the long view in mind. I could be wrong, but I doubt he has changed his MO that much when it comes to team-building.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The only reason to trade one of our d-men, IMO, is to address potential cap issues. That being the case, Fleury is likely not the asset to be moved. And as others have said, I'm not sure what we'd need or want to get back from Boston....I do like Vladar, but I'm pretty certain he's their tender of the future in their minds.

A Fleury deal, at least IMO, would be to solve an expansion draft issue for Carolina. It's possible that both Fleury and Geekie are deadline trade chips either for expansion-exempt assets OR a good goalie with term. I wonder if there's a potential deal that can be cooked up with Dallas for either Bishop or Khudobin.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I like Geekie a lot and I wouldn’t take him over Fleury, and if I was building a team I’d have a hard time taking him over Skjei or even Gardiner (especially if the Canes paid a price to take either of the second two). They’re all top four D. Geekie is not a great skater so it’s really hard to imagine him above the bottom six.

Equally hard to imagine that there are that many better dmen out there while not being any role playing forwards. Being an expansion team I’m not sure the rfa aspect of Geekie is that important. They’ve got a clean slate and will need to take on salaries. Geekie of course would be attractive but I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on to believe RF will see a bottom six forward as having more value. Of course sweeteners may change that.

Vegas didn’t take everyone you’d think but a lot of people thought they’d take guys I wouldn’t have taken either. The side deals were everything to that draft. As well as them taking guys they suspected would have trade value moving forward. Didn’t they take like 9 nhl dmen? They knew they’d have trade value.

If Fleury spends his playoffs rotating in and out of the lineup, getting 10-12 minutes when he does play, the league is not going to look at him as a Top 4 guy. At that point, the difference in value between Fleury and a prospect like that is not going to be meaningful. Barring injury, that looks like his future.

 

[bleedgreen]

If Fleury spends his playoffs rotating in and out of the lineup, getting 10-12 minutes when he does play, the league is not going to look at him as a Top 4 guy. At that point, the difference in value between Fleury and a prospect like that is not going to be meaningful. Barring injury, that looks like his future.

This is Francis, not the league. Under Francis Fleury was a top four D over Hanifin, playing most of the season with Faulk....when he was 20.

Fleury dropped from that role when we signed DeHaan, traded for Dougie and then we sent him to the minors because Rod wouldn’t sit a vet like TVR. Not because Fleury did a thing wrong. Rod has been slow to play the guy and now we have a rotation as we’re deep again. None of this will be lost on RF. He likely thinks Fleury should’ve been playing a steady role the whole time. Bean’s development this season is the main distraction from Fleury, unless RF wants a vet like Skjei because he needs the salary, experience, and thinks he’s the guy we’ve had recently instead of the guy we had before.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

This is Francis, not the league. Under Francis Fleury was a top four D over Hanifin, playing most of the season with Faulk....when he was 20.

Fleury dropped from that role when we signed DeHaan, traded for Dougie and then we sent him to the minors because Rod wouldn’t sit a vet like TVR. Not because Fleury did a thing wrong. Rod has been slow to play the guy and now we have a rotation as we’re deep again. None of this will be lost on RF. He likely thinks Fleury should’ve been playing a steady role the whole time. Bean’s development this season is the main distraction from Fleury, unless RF wants a vet like Skjei because he needs the salary, experience, and thinks he’s the guy we’ve had recently instead of the guy we had before.

Francis drafted Geekie too.

At a certain point, Fleury has to become what his potential suggests he can be, even for Carolina west. The good feelings about his bubble performance will fade if he doesn't build on it. Yet, it's D+7 and he's playing on the 3rd pairing. This is not a criticism of Fleury; this management group has not put him in a position to be more than that. Fleury's wallet has paid the price. They'll pay it too, if they try to trade him or are hoping that he's picked over an alternative exposed player.

This is not wishful thinking on my part, to address a point in the prior post. I don't think highly of the value of Skjei, Fleury and Gardiner. Bean continues to be the slam dunk pick in my eyes, based on prospect quality and control. If they try to get cute with 8 skaters, Trocheck becomes a no-brainer with his play early; re-sign him to play an in-demand position or deal him for a good return at the 2022 deadline. The only way to make it a choice is if they risk Hamilton walking or accept that he does. I'm not on board with that idea yet.

 

[emptyNedder]

Really like the 2nd PP unit with Bean and Pesce playing their "off" sides. Both (most players likely) seem to create better shooting angles. If Bean keeps developing, I would be happy trying a 2nd pairing with Pesce LD/Bean RD.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Really like the 2nd PP unit with Bean and Pesce playing their "off" sides. Both (most players likely) seem to create better shooting angles. If Bean keeps developing, I would be happy trying a 2nd pairing with Pesce LD/Bean RD.

still concerned about his size and how often he is pushed aside if not trucked. We have Tampa and Dallas this year.

Then we get Philly and Washington back next year. He can and will improve his ability to avoid those situations but should stick with protected minutes until then.

 

[spockBokk]

Anyone else getting a feeling that it’s getting more and more likely Hamilton is not a Cane next year?

It’s been eerily quiet on the insider front in regards to any negotiations with his camp
on a new deal. Bean’s sudden emergence, also might play a role. Bean is most definitely not a Hamilton replacement, but he’s got lot more years of team control left at a likely much cheaper rate than what Hamilton will command.

 

[MyLuckyPuck]

A Fleury deal, at least IMO, would be to solve an expansion draft issue for Carolina. It's possible that both Fleury and Geekie are deadline trade chips either for expansion-exempt assets OR a good goalie with term. I wonder if there's a potential deal that can be cooked up with Dallas for either Bishop or Khudobin.

What about Rinne? The Preds are stinking it up and could be looking to move on.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

What about Rinne? The Preds are stinking it up and could be looking to move on.

According to the Friedman, Rinne is one of the untouchables for Nashville

 

[MyLuckyPuck]

According to the Friedman, Rinne is one of the untouchables for Nashville

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Anyone else getting a feeling that it’s getting more and more likely Hamilton is not a Cane next year?

It’s been eerily quiet on the insider front in regards to any negotiations with his camp
on a new deal. Bean’s sudden emergence, also might play a role. Bean is most definitely not a Hamilton replacement, but he’s got lot more years of team control left at a likely much cheaper rate than what Hamilton will command.

I’ve been suggesting for a while that he may not be signed, at least by the expansion draft, and maybe not at all. It’s all going to depend on his ask (obviously). Even if he ends up producing like last year, a large dollar, 7-8 year seems unlikely from this front office.

 

[MyLuckyPuck]

I’ve been suggesting for a while that he may not be signed, at least by the expansion draft, and maybe not at all. It’s all going to depend on his ask (obviously). Even if he ends up producing like last year, a large dollar, 7-8 year seems unlikely from this front office.

Sad. I love Doogie, and believe he was the crown jewel in the Lindholm/Hanifin trade. What about the Svech/Doogie brotherhood?

 

[spockBokk]

I’ve been suggesting for a while that he may not be signed, at least by the expansion draft, and maybe not at all. It’s all going to depend on his ask (obviously). Even if he ends up producing like last year, a large dollar, 7-8 year seems unlikely from this front office.

I’ve been convinced they’d figure it out, but am starting to come off of that assumption. Piecing some thoughts together:

-Waddell said right before the season they are reluctant to hand long term deals (to players not named Aho or Svechnikov)

-he also said they wanted it taken care of before the season

-Hamilton, while still being good with 11 points in 17 games, only has 1 goal. And he’s not been close to the player he was last year. He’s still top 4 quality, but for how long?

-Bean has been a bit of a revelation. They needed to see what they have in him, and early returns are good. How much would it suck to see him turn into the next Shea Theodore, on another team?

-Keeping Hamilton and letting the chips fall where they may after the expansion draft may be best. If he wants to stay, why does it matter when he signs?

If he wants his $8M x 7, it’s getting harder and harder to see this team giving him that.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

I have a feeling the 2nd half of Dougie’s next deal will be an anchor.

 

[spockBokk]

I have a feeling the 2nd half of Dougie’s next deal will be an anchor.

Yep.

Perhaps there are lingering effects from his injury last year? So far, he’s just not the same. Worst case, I think he still has 3-4 years of being an effective play driver at 5-5 and on the PP, but looking at him at $8M per at age 33 and on is a bit frightening. He’s a big guy, and as such, more likely to see his game suffer from the effects of age more so than smaller players.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I’ve been convinced they’d figure it out, but am starting to come off of that assumption. Piecing some thoughts together:

-Waddell said right before the season they are reluctant to hand long term deals (to players not named Aho or Svechnikov)

-he also said they wanted it taken care of before the season

-Hamilton, while still being good with 11 points in 17 games, only has 1 goal. And he’s not been close to the player he was last year. He’s still top 4 quality, but for how long?

-Bean has been a bit of a revelation. They needed to see what they have in him, and early returns are good. How much would it suck to see him turn into the next Shea Theodore, on another team?

-Keeping Hamilton and letting the chips fall where they may after the expansion draft may be best. If he wants to stay, why does it matter when he signs?

If he wants his $8M x 7, it’s getting harder and harder to see this team giving him that.

1.8% shooting...is that an anomaly or new norm? We may not need him specifically if Bean emerges as our offensive catalyst from the blueline, but he's still a rookie on a small sample size. Additionally, I can't imagine us having 5 LHD & 1 RHD, even if you're not a stickler for handedness that's unbalanced. UFAs next year?

 

[spockBokk]

1.8% shooting...is that an anomaly or new norm? We may not need him specifically if Bean emerges as our offensive catalyst from the blueline, but he's still a rookie on a small sample size. Additionally, I can't imagine us having 5 LHD & 1 RHD, even if you're not a stickler for handedness that's unbalanced. UFAs next year?

I’d rather they find a way to keep Hamilton, even at the expense of potentially losing Bean. I’m just not as optimistic as I was about them actually pulling it off.

As far as Hamilton replacements, you can’t really replace him fully. But I think there would be options in UFA (Montour, Barrie, Larson or Vatanen) or trade (Ristolainen and Miller, both in BUF). All those guys are significant downgrades from Hamilton, but with Slavin as a partner, who knows where they could take their games.

Keeping Hamilton around should still be a priority, but like others, I’m starting to feel
like it’s probably not in the cards.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

I could see the org wanting to sign him for 4-5 years but I only see him signing for 7 (or 8).

 

[Canes]

I have a feeling the 2nd half of Dougie’s next deal will be an anchor.

Unless he starts playing like he did pre-injury, I feel like Waddell/the front office and his agent are going to be so far apart numbers wise we won't have to worry about this. He's like 99% likely going to end up testing UFA, IMO.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

There are so many possibilities to consider with the expansion draft upcoming and other teams going to have serious cap concerns again (Tampa, Islanders). I have an odd feeling a team like Winnipeg grossly overpays for Hamilton. While it will stink to lose him the contract will make it okay

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Agreed. Hamilton is a tremendous asset, but ultimately a redundant one in our organization. At this point in time, obviously Bean has less value than Hamilton. But we know Hamilton is the best he will ever be right now, and the question is for how long. I still am in favor of a 2-3 year deal, even at a stupid price like $8.5 (3 years) or $9M (2 years). Supposing that we aren't able to keep Hamilton, it's possible that Jake Bean, Jesper Bleedgren, or Joey Keane could also step in and play. I'm pretty confident that a Slavin-Pesce / Gardiner-Skeji / Bean-Fleury top 6 is still pretty damn good.

Another factor is the opportunity of NOT re-signing Hamilton is that we suddenly unlock $$ to invest in a goalie, should we go that route.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

How about Schenn as a no cost acquisition for RHD depth in case of injury? Veteran, hits, cup winner. Good aspects to have but will eat some cap space that we may be saving for a deadline acquisition. He is on a 800k salary.

 

[To Be Determined]

According to the Friedman, Rinne is one of the untouchables for Nashville

i get that he's a lifer, and they want him to retire a pred, but what if there was a legit cup contender that could use help in goal? i wonder if nashville would, out of respect for him, ray bourque him?