All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread - start of 2021 season edition

[CanesFanBudMan]

Here's an outside the box possibility:

If the Canes don't re-sign Hamilton before the trade deadline, what if they kept him as an "own rental" and brokered a deal with Seattle to leave him unprotected? Seems like Hamilton would be ideal to build the Kracken D around; young enough to contribute for years to come, but a star to also help them win now. And Seattle wouldn't have any cap issues with respect to Dougie's next contract. I'd expect a nice piece coming back from Seattle, not sure exactly what, though.

In that case Dougie could sign wherever he wanted

 

[spockBokk]

Here's an outside the box possibility:

If the Canes don't re-sign Hamilton before the trade deadline, what if they kept him as an "own rental" and brokered a deal with Seattle to leave him unprotected? Seems like Hamilton would be ideal to build the Kracken D around; young enough to contribute for years to come, but a star to also help them win now. And Seattle wouldn't have any cap issues with respect to Dougie's next contract. I'd expect a nice piece coming back from Seattle, not sure exactly what, though.

Why wouldn't Francis just wait it out?

I believe they would have a 7-day window all to their own to negotiate with any UFA they select. Why would they send anything back when they could potentially get him for free?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Why wouldn't Francis just wait it out?

I believe they would have a 7-day window all to their own to negotiate with any UFA they select. Why would they send anything back when they could potentially get him for free?

I assume that they would pick whoever they had talks with during their 3 day to talk to upcoming UFAs before the draft. Then use the 7 days you mentioned to clean up any details to finalize a signing.

 

[spockBokk]

I assume that they would pick whoever they had talks with during their 3 day to talk to upcoming UFAs before the draft. Then use the 7 days you mentioned to clean up any details to finalize a signing.

I mean, if Hamilton isn’t re-signing and he ends up being the guy going to Seattle from the Canes (would he even count as a drafted player?) I guess that’s not the end of the world, depending on who the braintrust would bring in as a replacement (Dumba? Barrie? One of the BUF RD?). They’d still have Bean and Fleury, and 3 top 4 guys in Slavin, Pesce and Skjei.

I’d rather they just figure out how to keep Hamilton. If I have to choose between Bean and Hamilton, it’s Hamilton all day, every day.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I mean, if Hamilton isn’t re-signing and he ends up being the guy going to Seattle from the Canes (would he even count as a drafted player?) I guess that’s not the end of the world, depending on who the braintrust would bring in as a replacement (Dumba? Barrie? One of the BUF RD?). They’d still have Bean and Fleury, and 3 top 4 guys in Slavin, Pesce and Skjei.

I’d rather they just figure out how to keep Hamilton. If I have to choose between Bean and Hamilton, it’s Hamilton all day, every day.

Seattle can select up to 10 expiring contracts. Also any player they sign during the 48-72 hour UFA window before the draft counts as their drafted player.

 

[spockBokk]

Seattle can select up to 10 expiring contracts. Also any player they sign during the 48-72 hour UFA window before the draft counts as their drafted player.

Ah, good to know.

I think that scenario (Hamilton signing in Seattle) is very unlikely. Why wouldn’t he just wait a few more days to see what’s out there for him?

 

[WreckingCrew]

I mean, if Hamilton isn’t re-signing and he ends up being the guy going to Seattle from the Canes (would he even count as a drafted player?) I guess that’s not the end of the world, depending on who the braintrust would bring in as a replacement (Dumba? Barrie? One of the BUF RD?). They’d still have Bean and Fleury, and 3 top 4 guys in Slavin, Pesce and Skjei.

I’d rather they just figure out how to keep Hamilton. If I have to choose between Bean and Hamilton, it’s Hamilton all day, every day.

They can negotiate with him in advance and if they come to an agreement take him as their selection. They could also negotiate, handshake agree, draft someone else, and then sign him as a UFA

EDIT: Also, I highly doubt after the way he was booted from Carolina that Francis would be willing to do any "favors" for us to keep who we want (i.e. a draft pick to take someone else). Our best bet is just to protect guys and move on after they select whoever. We've got the depth to deal with that.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Ah, good to know.

I think that scenario (Hamilton signing in Seattle) is very unlikely. Why wouldn’t he just wait a few more days to see what’s out there for him?

Unless Francis puts a really good number on the table and his agent believes it is a risk to walk away from that then, I agree. Vegas had MAF as their face for the draft and beyond. Seattle will need one. Tyler Johnson? Oshie? It could be a bigger UFA that is the marquee name for the organization to hang their hat on.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

will be interesting to see what happens with Seattle if for instance Nino scores 28 goals in a shortened season and is available.

He has too much of a track record for a GM in Francis' situation to get fooled into not viewing him as the inconsistent producer he is. This team is one of the few that Seattle can extract a piece of mid to long-term value from. Using that opportunity on Niederreiter, a year out from free agency, would be unwise. Another off year, as the recent pattern would suggest, and he's worth a trivial pick at the deadline at most.

 

[emptyNedder]

interesting we are giving Gardiner another rest day. Good strategy though.

Boston is pretty much in desperate need of an LD. Could be Gardiner is being talked about, thus he isn't at risk of getting injured. I think it could be just as likely Fleury is being discussed and the organization is trying to boost his value if Boston is waiting to see if Ekholm is reasonably available first.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It could be that Rod wants to give guys a run of games and not sit out for extended periods or be in and out every other game. He mentioned that in regards to Bean.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Gardiner returns in a game or two, and someone other than Fleury sits (provided Fleury plays well).

 

[bleedgreen]

He has too much of a track record for a GM in Francis' situation to get fooled into not viewing him as the inconsistent producer he is. This team is one of the few that Seattle can extract a piece of mid to long-term value from. Using that opportunity on Niederreiter, a year out from free agency, would be unwise. Another off year, as the recent pattern would suggest, and he's worth a trivial pick at the deadline at most.

Yup. Even if we didn’t have a past falling out with him RF would be licking his chops thinking about his options with us. Like you said we’re one of the teams he can get a player that’s part of his core for the next few years starting from game one.

Factor in the history and the fact he drafted Fleury and Bean? He’s getting a good young defenseman from us or he’s getting a decent vet defenseman and a present from us.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yup. Even if we didn’t have a past falling out with him RF would be licking his chops thinking about his options with us. Like you said we’re one of the teams he can get a player that’s part of his core for the next few years starting from game one.

Factor in the history and the fact he drafted Fleury and Bean? He’s getting a good young defenseman from us or he’s getting a decent vet defenseman and a present from us.

And Geekie and Foegele who also might be exposed.

I still think the Canes won't have Dougie under contract by then and will protect Bean (if he keeps playing like he does), but there are a lot of "ifs" still.

 

[bleedgreen]

And Geekie and Foegele who also might be exposed.

I still think the Canes won't have Dougie under contract by then and will protect Bean (if he keeps playing like he does), but there are a lot of "ifs" still.

I’d love for RF to covet role playing forwards enough to want them over top four defenseman, but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

There's an argument for Geekie being more attractive to Seattle than Fleury. A number of intriguing defensemen are going to be made available because of the protection formats. That won't be the case at center, likewise a premium position. Geekie comes with his full slate of RFA years (4). Fleury could become a 2023 UFA by leveraging arbitration for a 1 year deal next Summer. You just have to see him as having Middle 6 upside.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Boston is pretty much in desperate need of an LD. Could be Gardiner is being talked about, thus he isn't at risk of getting injured. I think it could be just as likely Fleury is being discussed and the organization is trying to boost his value if Boston is waiting to see if Ekholm is reasonably available first.

What does Boston have that we would even want for Gardiner or Fleury? Have they soured on DeBrusk that much that they'd trade him straight up for one of them? I don't think they have much for prospects or draft capital that I'd care about. A Jake swap would be great for us but seems terrible for the Bruins unless they are sick of waiting on DeBrusk's potential...

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

What does Boston have that we would even want for Gardiner or Fleury? Have they soured on DeBrusk that much that they'd trade him straight up for one of them? I don't think they have much for prospects or draft capital that I'd care about. A Jake swap would be great for us but seems terrible for the Bruins unless they are sick of waiting on DeBrusk's potential...

I think Fleury might be the one that they're having talks about. There's a couple of goalie prospects in Swayman and Vladar that I'd personally be interested in from them, at least as part of a package. Also Vaakanainen is an interesting defensive prospect that's expansion-exempt that the Bruins have rumored to have peddled around in various trades.

As for Gardiner, Boston has the cap space to acquire him outright for a draft pick, much like we did for Skjei.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I know it likely won't last, but when was the last time we had 4 guys at PPG+ pace?
Tro - 15GP - 16PTS
Svech & Aho - 16GP - 16PTS
Staal - 14GP - 15PTS

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I’d love for RF to covet role playing forwards enough to want them over top four defenseman, but I’m not holding my breath.

On the surface I agree with you, but it really depends on who else is available from other teams.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I know it likely won't last, but when was the last time we had 4 guys at PPG+ pace?
Tro - 15GP - 16PTS
Svech & Aho - 16GP - 16PTS
Staal - 14GP - 15PTS

This deep in the season? If not 05-06 then sometime in the 80s.

 

[A Star is Burns]

There's an argument for Geekie being more attractive to Seattle than Fleury. A number of intriguing defensemen are going to be made available because of the protection formats. That won't be the case at center, likewise a premium position. Geekie comes with his full slate of RFA years (4). Fleury could become a 2023 UFA by leveraging arbitration for a 1 year deal next Summer. You just have to see him as having Middle 6 upside.

Like I said recently, Vegas didn't make all the selections people thought they would necessarily, even leaving side deals aside. It's very difficult to predict 30 different variables and the various side deals that will likely still happen because of covid cap crunch. Regardless, we'll lose a good player or assets and be done with it.

 

[bleedgreen]

There's an argument for Geekie being more attractive to Seattle than Fleury. A number of intriguing defensemen are going to be made available because of the protection formats. That won't be the case at center, likewise a premium position. Geekie comes with his full slate of RFA years (4). Fleury could become a 2023 UFA by leveraging arbitration for a 1 year deal next Summer. You just have to see him as having Middle 6 upside.

I like Geekie a lot and I wouldn’t take him over Fleury, and if I was building a team I’d have a hard time taking him over Skjei or even Gardiner (especially if the Canes paid a price to take either of the second two). They’re all top four D. Geekie is not a great skater so it’s really hard to imagine him above the bottom six.

Equally hard to imagine that there are that many better dmen out there while not being any role playing forwards. Being an expansion team I’m not sure the rfa aspect of Geekie is that important. They’ve got a clean slate and will need to take on salaries. Geekie of course would be attractive but I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on to believe RF will see a bottom six forward as having more value. Of course sweeteners may change that.

Vegas didn’t take everyone you’d think but a lot of people thought they’d take guys I wouldn’t have taken either. The side deals were everything to that draft. As well as them taking guys they suspected would have trade value moving forward. Didn’t they take like 9 nhl dmen? They knew they’d have trade value.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I like Geekie a lot and I wouldn’t take him over Fleury, and if I was building a team I’d have a hard time taking him over Skjei or even Gardiner (especially if the Canes paid a price to take either of the second two). They’re all top four D. Geekie is not a great skater so it’s really hard to imagine him above the bottom six.

Equally hard to imagine that there are that many better dmen out there while not being any role playing forwards. Being an expansion team I’m not sure the rfa aspect of Geekie is that important. They’ve got a clean slate and will need to take on salaries. Geekie of course would be attractive but I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on to believe RF will see a bottom six forward as having more value. Of course sweeteners may change that.

Vegas didn’t take everyone you’d think but a lot of people thought they’d take guys I wouldn’t have taken either. The side deals were everything to that draft.

After all was said and done, didn't Vegas have like 10+ dmen? They really won't have any shortage of options to choose from I'd imagine. I'd guess they go dman from us unless persuaded otherwise, but it's not impossible they think someone like a Geekie is the next William Karlsson.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I like Geekie a lot and I wouldn’t take him over Fleury, and if I was building a team I’d have a hard time taking him over Skjei or even Gardiner (especially if the Canes paid a price to take either of the second two). They’re all top four D. Geekie is not a great skater so it’s really hard to imagine him above the bottom six.

Equally hard to imagine that there are that many better dmen out there while not being any role playing forwards. Being an expansion team I’m not sure the rfa aspect of Geekie is that important. They’ve got a clean slate and will need to take on salaries. Geekie of course would be attractive but I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on to believe RF will see a bottom six forward as having more value. Of course sweeteners may change that.

Vegas didn’t take everyone you’d think but a lot of people thought they’d take guys I wouldn’t have taken either. The side deals were everything to that draft. As well as them taking guys they suspected would have trade value moving forward. Didn’t they take like 9 nhl dmen? They knew they’d have trade value.

Yes, they did, in fact, choose a large amount of defensemen and dealt a few for draft picks, including TVR to us.

 

[NotOpie]

I'd rather protect Bean and just lose Fleury outright than pay a team to take a player, especially since Gardiner and Skjei actually have trade value now. We're not exactly hurting for cap space, especially since Ned looks like he'll be an NHL netminder going forward and Jarvis and Cotton already look ready to play in the NHL IMO.

Those are some pretty big leaps of faith given the type of sample and sample size. Neither Jarvis nor Cotton have sniffed the NHL, so I might be a little circumspect about those guys right now. I do believe that Nedeljkovic has an NHL future, but I'm not willing to say quite what it will be yet. It wouldn't surprise me at all if, after he returns and if he continues to play in early season form, we re-signed Petr to another 3 year deal. If that's the case then he's our protected goalie.

Actually, Skjei's deal expires right when Aho needs to be paid. And IMO, how our cap looks depends more on how many young guys are ready for the NHL than Svech and Dougie's contracts.

The end of the 24-25 season is contract Armageddon for the Canes, barring major trades, Aho, Teravainen, Pesce and Skjei are all up for new contracts then.

Both statements are true, but those contract situations are an eternity from now in NHL years. Lots can change. We can and will sign UFAs. Some of our youngsters will bust, some will exceed expectations.....and we'll have 3 more drafts between now and then. Our window is now through 2024. Not sure that worrying about those contracts matters atm.

Also, I'd gamble that one or more of those guys will get re-upped prior to the end of their contracts.

Boston is pretty much in desperate need of an LD. Could be Gardiner is being talked about, thus he isn't at risk of getting injured. I think it could be just as likely Fleury is being discussed and the organization is trying to boost his value if Boston is waiting to see if Ekholm is reasonably available first.

The only reason to trade one of our d-men, IMO, is to address potential cap issues. That being the case, Fleury is likely not the asset to be moved. And as others have said, I'm not sure what we'd need or want to get back from Boston....I do like Vladar, but I'm pretty certain he's their tender of the future in their minds.