OT: All Purpose Tavares Thread

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ABCUser

Registered User
Mar 9, 2016
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"I’m thinking of going to the Leafs-Isles game in NY in February. Make a trip of it by visiting Manhattan, and then rubbing it in their faces in their own arena. :D "



"They don't even have one!"


https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...-yes-we-signed-tavares-thread.2514231/page-16


Looks like the Leaf fans are starting to have a good ole time at our expense. And they want to give JT a tribute? Are you f***ing kidding me? This should be like the Pittsburg payback game when Fleury was laughing at us and we kicked the shit out of them the following game. We have to send them a serious message and create an identity. Is it any wonder why Leaf fans are easily the most hated in all of hockey?
 

JeffNYI

Registered User
Jun 16, 2006
2,216
405
"I’m thinking of going to the Leafs-Isles game in NY in February. Make a trip of it by visiting Manhattan, and then rubbing it in their faces in their own arena. :D "


"They don't even have one!"


https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...-yes-we-signed-tavares-thread.2514231/page-16


Looks like the Leaf fans are starting to have a good ole time at our expense. And they want to give JT a tribute? Are you ****ing kidding me? This should be like the Pittsburg payback game when Fleury was laughing at us and we kicked the **** out of them the following game. We have to send them a serious message and create an identity. Is it any wonder why Leaf fans are easily the most hated in all of hockey?

I'm down.

But this time let's do it in their building instead of ours.
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
16,105
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I agree but it's not Tavares's responsibility to decide whether he gets traded or not to get assets for him...that Snow's job. And let's be honest we all knew Snow's feet were close to the fire and if he traded Tavares away regardless of what he got in return he'd be sealing his end as GM. I'm just saying Tavares wasn't the only selfish one or one to blame. It's hard to say that a guy who signed arguably the best contract in the league for 6 years and gave the team an extra year to build around him is the selfish one when the team failed to use any of the save money on the team in terms of players, coaches, or manaement. Imagine signing such a team friendly deal so your team can compete...and they're trading for retired players so their salaries help them reach the floor. Just suggesting we should have some perspective and spread the blame around.
There is plenty of blame to go around. No one should argue against that but fwiw the ownership change and following transition period with Wang still here probably made this whole thing harder for the new owners to deal with effectively. I can forgive them because of that.
 

Brunomics

Registered User
Sep 2, 2006
8,787
1,586
What I find funny from the Toronto Morons is this:

They let JVR and Bozak go. Combined those two are 12 million a year instead of scumbags 11 million.

Last year those two in Babcocks system put up a combined 47 goals and 87 points.

They also think they are getting a ppg player when in reality the two prior seasons before this one he was averaging about 70 points per season and this prior year the only reason he was a ppg was a strong first half. Second half he regressed back onto that 70 point pace.

So all in all you basically swapped production of 2 players and put them into 1. And in that 1 player you got a guy that can score but doesn't play D well and doesn't skate well enough to justify his contract once he gets into year 4(hell maybe even year 3).

Add on that outside of Nylander and Marner you have no wingers that are worth a damn, as well as a questionable D core and average at best goalie.

I don't see anything here but shiny new toy syndrome for those morons.
 

ScaredStreit

Registered User
May 5, 2006
11,091
2,978
Tampa, FL
There is plenty of blame to go around. No one should argue against that but fwiw the ownership change and following transition period with Wang still here probably made this whole thing harder for the new owners to deal with effectively. I can forgive them because of that.

Oh I agree that I don't blame ownership necessarily...they needed Tavares to help sell Belmont and be the face of the franchise. I do think it's silly when some people (not suggesting you) say that Tavares should have told them to trade him so they can get assets back...imagine the headlines "Tavares demands trade". Now if he was asked he should have been honest...but I really don't believe there was anyway that Snow or Malkin would ever agree to moving Tavares at that point in time. That's not Tavares's job. Snow was Tavares' boss and as such Snow called the shots, not the other way around.

But all of that is in the past and we can both agree that the team has a much better chance of long-term success under Lou and Trotz...if Snow was still around I think I'd probably skip watching next season.
 

Buzzman17

Registered User
Apr 13, 2017
514
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Your first three sentences contributed some excellent new information. Great stuff.

As for the final sentence, you're speaking as though we made a wild guess that turned out wrong,... but it's been well documented that JT signaled the entire time that he was returning. So our management was obviously misled or he would have been moved.

He's allowed to signal he was likely returning. I believe he was 90% returning at the start of the year and 10% hoping the leafs might make some room for him and show interest. The isles should have provided a deadline like August of last year and traded him if he didn't sign. The very fact that he didn't sign throughout the year is all the information he needed to provide to management to indicate that he would consider other options at the end of the year.
 

dlawong

Registered User
Nov 24, 2011
2,420
528
Vancouver, Canada
Tavares is a very good player and was valuable to this team no doubt. However I honestly believe and can see that his game is not as good as it used to be and I am judging strictly by what he does on the ice and not by point total results or who he plays with. His mental part of the game and speed is still a setback for him. Would it change? Maybe with better coaching who can unlock that mental part of his game and maybe if he can manage to somehow improve his skating or fitness to a even higher level but any serious injury especially to the lower body part can seriously impact his game. There is one factor that he will not be able to overcome though - age. He will slow down because every player hits 30 will start to see decline in their game, especially on 5 on 5 plays, maybe less so on PP.

I think Isles is better off without resigning him in the long term (not so much in the short term though) because his contract will bite the team in 4 years with whichever team he signs with. He however does have the chance to win as SC with a true contending team maybe in 2 years. TML is close but not yet. If their D improves a lot, then they will be there, not because of Tavares but more because of Marner and Matthews who I think has not yet peaked. However there are other teams just as good and upcoming so their window to win will be more likely within the next 4 or 5 years. Once Oilers can add a couple more studs to their line-up or even teams that have a strong talent pool which has yet not fully surfaced will give TML a lot of challenge down the road.
 
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embracedbias

Registered User
Jan 11, 2009
6,224
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Waterloo
What I find funny from the Toronto Morons is this:

They let JVR and Bozak go. Combined those two are 12 million a year instead of scumbags 11 million.

Last year those two in Babcocks system put up a combined 47 goals and 87 points.

They also think they are getting a ppg player when in reality the two prior seasons before this one he was averaging about 70 points per season and this prior year the only reason he was a ppg was a strong first half. Second half he regressed back onto that 70 point pace.

So all in all you basically swapped production of 2 players and put them into 1. And in that 1 player you got a guy that can score but doesn't play D well and doesn't skate well enough to justify his contract once he gets into year 4(hell maybe even year 3).

Add on that outside of Nylander and Marner you have no wingers that are worth a damn, as well as a questionable D core and average at best goalie.

I don't see anything here but shiny new toy syndrome for those morons.

I keep seeing this argument, but a simple error is being made. Bozak and JVR's production is being replaced (mostly) with one person. But it doesn't end there, JVRs roster spot will be taken by another player (Johnsson or Kapanen who make <1 million) who will presumably put up some points. So if Tavares scores 80 points with Marner and Johnsson or Kapanen score 30 points that means the Leafs replaced 87 points with 110 points at the same cost.

Regarding defense, JVR and Bozak were absolute liabilities who played only 15 minutes a game (despite top PP time). Babcock used them as a sheltered 3rd line and the strategy for the entire Boston series was essentially to keep them away from Bergeron.

The move represents an unambiguous improvement in terms of both offense and defense for the Leafs. Theres no question.
 

MattMartin

Killer Instinct™
Feb 10, 2007
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kid-turns-into-a-supervillain-after-trying-his-grandpas-leaf-blower.gif
 

JeffNYI

Registered User
Jun 16, 2006
2,216
405
I keep seeing this argument, but a simple error is being made. Bozak and JVR's production is being replaced (mostly) with one person. But it doesn't end there, JVRs roster spot will be taken by another player (Johnsson or Kapanen who make <1 million) who will presumably put up some points. So if Tavares scores 80 points with Marner and Johnsson or Kapanen score 30 points that means the Leafs replaced 87 points with 110 points at the same cost.

Regarding defense, JVR and Bozak were absolute liabilities who played only 15 minutes a game (despite top PP time). Babcock used them as a sheltered 3rd line and the strategy for the entire Boston series was essentially to keep them away from Bergeron.

The move represents an unambiguous improvement in terms of both offense and defense for the Leafs. Theres no question.

It also represents an epic reduction in character, loyalty, commitment, accountability, honesty, integrity, inspired leadership, respect, ambition, candidness, courage, devotion, enthusiasm, professionalism, responsibility, reliability, sense of humor, sincerity and trustworthiness for the Leafs.

But yeah their offense could improve. So there's that. Which is nice.
 

IslesFan2017

Registered User
May 29, 2017
97
14
While I am upset at Tavares for signing with the Leafs, I think management always has to look out for the team first and they should have at minimum gotten assets back in a trade. Does that in all likelihood mean Tavares won't sign back as a free agent? Yes, but they should have made a deadline such as last August for him to sign an extension, and strongly told him that if he didn't sign, he would be traded since they couldn't afford to lose him for nothing.
 

YearlyLottery

The Pooch Report
Feb 7, 2013
11,399
7,708
South Carolina
I keep seeing this argument, but a simple error is being made. Bozak and JVR's production is being replaced (mostly) with one person. But it doesn't end there, JVRs roster spot will be taken by another player (Johnsson or Kapanen who make <1 million) who will presumably put up some points. So if Tavares scores 80 points with Marner and Johnsson or Kapanen score 30 points that means the Leafs replaced 87 points with 110 points at the same cost.

Regarding defense, JVR and Bozak were absolute liabilities who played only 15 minutes a game (despite top PP time). Babcock used them as a sheltered 3rd line and the strategy for the entire Boston series was essentially to keep them away from Bergeron.

The move represents an unambiguous improvement in terms of both offense and defense for the Leafs. Theres no question.

Even if your posts are meaningful, you are getting nowhere here..
 

dlawong

Registered User
Nov 24, 2011
2,420
528
Vancouver, Canada
All in all, it is good that Snow is no longer the GM because it is all on him who screwed up the not trading Tavares thing. The GM is always the one that negotiate with the player and keep their relation in top form. I do not believe for a second that Tavares would have stayed for Snow and Weight because the TML does have a more competitive team and he wants to win sooner than later. Does he not? LL and Trotz plus the owners can offer him the world he would still have left - as there are just too many factors favoring TML - home town, family, good young team. Owners normally do not want to step over the GM's position and they gave Snow a chance to negotiate with him and if they stepped in and take over that may be a sticky point if they ever want to hire another GM especially someone like LL who would love to be in control. Let us just conclude the whole thing by saying that Snow failed the team and fans from many perspective - took too long to build a team to be somewhat competitive and also did not have the ball to give his friend a deadline for resigning.

Glad that Isles is not moving forward with Snow in charge and now they also got a very respective coach who just won a SC. Let the fans and team moved on and yes this team will not be good even with a declining Tavares and with Snow and Weight running this team. Look forward to hopefully the talented youngster making the team some this year and then some within the next two years plus whoever they can draft within the next two years. Trotz has a good solid system, know how to build a winning culture in the locker room, clearly capable of bringing the best out of his players and have a winning formula and this will help this team moving forward.

For fans from other teams they should know that Snow is no longer in charge and he would have been fired if not for that awful long extension Wang secured for him before he turned over his majority share of the team. Thus if you put the blame on Isles management it should be really on their ex-GM.

Do not defend Snow because he is one and only one reason why Tavares left even if Tavares tried to save Snow's face by saying that he only made up mind after he received those interviews. He said it is hard to leave Islanders because he does have some feelings for the fans and some of his friends on the team and I believe he felt some guilt about leaving the team he was part of for so long. There is just too many reasons for he to want to play for the TML. He may not have said out loud but his family is the biggest deciding factor, not just his wife but his parents, sister, in-laws and his future family. Like I said before, with Hamonic requesting a trade to be closer to his ill mother, Tavares saw first hand what is like to be in that shoe and I think he does not want to be stuck in the same spot down the road.

I heard a very close friend told me once that their own main focus is always on their small inner circle (family and close friends) and the rest is never going to be that important in how they approach life and making decisions. This is the norm for most people and I just think Tavares happen to be one of these normal people. He is human so he based his decision on his inner most feelings.
 
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SI90

Registered User
Jul 25, 2011
85,706
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StrongIsland
"I’m thinking of going to the Leafs-Isles game in NY in February. Make a trip of it by visiting Manhattan, and then rubbing it in their faces in their own arena. :D "


"They don't even have one!"


https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...-yes-we-signed-tavares-thread.2514231/page-16


Looks like the Leaf fans are starting to have a good ole time at our expense. And they want to give JT a tribute? Are you ****ing kidding me? This should be like the Pittsburg payback game when Fleury was laughing at us and we kicked the **** out of them the following game. We have to send them a serious message and create an identity. Is it any wonder why Leaf fans are easily the most hated in all of hockey?


They’ve been. Not good enough to actually get the guy and be happy they have to try and rub it in. I checked the board yesterday and they were talking about Bossy and the Potvin sucks chant.
 
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BelovedIsles

Registered User
Oct 22, 2005
20,361
5,594
I'm sure written for venting purposes only, but still borderline psychotic.

I’m experiencing no hallucinations, nor is this a delusion. So no, no psychoses.

I need an event while I’m there, maybe pay Mr. J a visit; friendly, cordial, professional conversation.
 

Quicklime

Registered User
Sep 25, 2006
5,569
653
Denver, CO
They’ve been. Not good enough to actually get the guy and be happy they have to try and rub it in. I checked the board yesterday and they were talking about Bossy and the Potvin sucks chant.

Well, they won’t be winning cups any time soon with that D. They’re not that much better off than us.

I’m waiting for the cap he’ll to hit before I get popcorn.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,247
23,594
I'm an Isles fan just like you are and as much as you are. I happen to not think JT is the demon he has been made out to be, for the most part, on this board. Now if that opinion offends you or think that it has no place on this board, perhaps I could recommend some third world, dictatorial nation for you to move to where freedom of speech is not as revered, but so far all I have done is express my opinion, which I assume is the purpose of this site. So take your threat somewhere else or ban me. If you do, that will say far more about you than me.

"2) Trolling: Do not make posts that could be interpreted as though they were made to cause an argument or provoke others. Posting questionable content on team boards, particularly those of rivals, is likely to be seen as trolling."

I'll moderate as I see fit, thanks though.
 
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