OT: All Purpose Tavares Thread

[boredmale]

I'm not trying to singe anyone, nor is it a question of winning. I am defending a player who was the cornerstone of the Isles for many years because I believe that a great deal of what has been written about him is ridiculous. Doesn't mean he did everything right, but he gets the benefit of the doubt from me. I'd really like to know, why is that such an unreasonable position to take and why does it piss everyone off so much?

I'll be perfectly honest, the biggest problem with you if you claim to be an Islanders fan but I don't remember seeing you posting in any other Islander threads, infact when you do a search for your previous posts it seems like you like Tampa. You whole purpose being here just seems to be so you can troll us. Their is many threads on the main boards you can post about Tavares if you want to talk about it yet you seem to enjoy coming here for some reason.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'm not trying to singe anyone, nor is it a question of winning. I am defending a player who was the cornerstone of the Isles for many years because I believe that a great deal of what has been written about him is ridiculous. Doesn't mean he did everything right, but he gets the benefit of the doubt from me. I'd really like to know, why is that such an unreasonable position to take and why does it piss everyone off so much?

Read the thousands of posts already written on the topic, don't keep asking in here to get a rise out of people.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I think our mods have done a great job and shown the correct amount of patience, while also stepping in when necessary..

Look if I -- as "JeffNYI" -- who's been here a decade and has 1800 posts... or any other poster with a proven history here... wants to come out and defend Pajama Boy's treachery, I have every faith the mods would let me do it because I've got the stripes to say those things.. But RandomDouche81 showing up out of nowhere whose first 100 posts were all on Lightning topics like Cooper, Stamkos, Lightning GDTs just comes here stirring up the pot about JT, and claims to be an Islanders fan, yeah that guy doesn't have that right to push things universally.. as our mod has explained..

They let him say his piece and let him be.. but he kept going, even claiming he was an Isles fan which I personally believe was a JT-worthy lie..

Anyway my larger point is to give our mods kudos for how they've handled this difficult troll-attracting situation.. I only wish JT had half the class our mods do..

I was more referring to the Leaf maggots and all their drivel they’ve been spewing.

 

[pursuit81]

I'll be perfectly honest, the biggest problem with you if you claim to be an Islanders fan but I don't remember seeing you posting in any other Islander threads, infact when you do a search for your previous posts it seems like you like Tampa. You whole purpose being here just seems to be so you can troll us. Their is many threads on the main boards you can post about Tavares if you want to talk about it yet you seem to enjoy coming here for some reason.

I didn't write on blogs at all and never even considered it until a TB fan mentioned this site to me as a good way to talk hockey, which I enjoy doing. That, unfortunately I guess, occurred right around the time the playoffs were starting. I was commenting on the Lightning because they were in it at that time and there wasn't much to say about the Isles. Just bad timing I guess.

 

[beach]

I'm not trying to singe anyone, nor is it a question of winning. I am defending a player who was the cornerstone of the Isles for many years because I believe that a great deal of what has been written about him is ridiculous. Doesn't mean he did everything right, but he gets the benefit of the doubt from me. I'd really like to know, why is that such an unreasonable position to take and why does it piss everyone off so much?

You've made your point, on a venting thread no less, like 20 times. JUST LEAVE AND GO BACK TO THE TB THREAD.

 

[boredmale]

I didn't write on blogs at all and never even considered it until a TB fan mentioned this site to me as a good way to talk hockey, which I enjoy doing. That, unfortunately I guess, occurred right around the time the playoffs were starting. I was commenting on the Lightning because they were in it at that time and there wasn't much to say about the Isles. Just bad timing I guess.

Still not one single post on threads about who we should draft, who we did draft, hiring Lou Lamerillo, Trotz, what off season moves we should make, off season moves(besides Tavares) we did make. Just this thread

 

[pursuit81]

Read the thousands of posts already written on the topic, don't keep asking in here to get a rise out of people.

Why is it that I am the one trying to get "a rise out of people", yet the converse isn't true? If you're going to moderate, moderate, but that demands that you be fair about it and not take sides. Clearly not the case.

 

[doublechili]

Don’t forget to campaign in Michigan

 

[PK Cronin]

Why is it that I am the one trying to get "a rise out of people", yet the converse isn't true? If you're going to moderate, moderate, but that demands that you be fair about it and not take sides. Clearly not the case.

We've gone over this, so see you later.

 

[JeffNYI]

I was more referring to the Leaf maggots and all their drivel they’ve been spewing.

Yup. Same page. 100,000%.

 

[macleod50]

Yup. Same page. 100,000%.

Just kill them with kindness. Most of them don't know what to do when someone is having a logical discussion with them, and not trashing their team or fans.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Of course, the team will do everything they can to prevent John from getting on the board in our home building.

I say, we install jumbo Nite Lites at the arenas, if he scores the main lights go out temporarily and NiteLites go on, they can play the beginning of a lullaby as the goal song.

Dallas does an excellent job of trolling visiting teams, not that the above is even realistic but I wouldn't mind a creative jab at JT when he does return. It would win over the fans and get everyone riled up

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I was more referring to the Leaf maggots and all their drivel they’ve been spewing.

Ironic, this is what I was thinking when they closed the Tavares thread on the mainboard due to all the off topic stuff Leafs fans spew. Absolutely the worst.

In the end, as I said there. There are serious questions on Tavares deception on how he left the Isles, and legitimate questions about how effective he will be in years 3-7 of his massive contract.

Prior to how he left, I thought he only had 2 good years where his PP production will make his contract palatable. But given Judas' deception on how he left, I think Lamoriello was lucky to escape a terrible handcuffing contract when the Pajama 16M $ man wanted to live out his child hood dreams.

What I am saying here to Isles fans is given how Judas left, and how he will decline as others have before him have. Him signing with Toronto will turn out to be a blessing for NY Isles. I truly believe this. Guys and gals have faith. Isles will have karma on their side on this one. This is the same feeling as I had on Barzal before he hit 85 points this year and we know how that turned out. It will all work out in the wash. Give it time.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Don’t forget to campaign in Michigan

No need to campaign there, all the Rust Belt states are obviously in the bag.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Ironic, this is what I was thinking when they closed the Tavares thread on the mainboard due to all the off topic stuff Leafs fans spew. Absolutely the worst.

In the end, as I said there. There are serious questions on Tavares deception on how he left the Isles, and legitimate questions about how effective he will be in years 3-7 of his massive contract.

Prior to how he left, I thought he only had 2 good years where his PP production will make his contract palatable. But given Judas' deception on how he left, I think Lamoriello was lucky to escape a terrible handcuffing contract when the Pajama 16M $ man wanted to live out his child hood dreams.

What I am saying here to Isles fans is given how Judas left, and how he will decline as others have before him have. Him signing with Toronto will turn out to be a blessing for NY Isles. I truly believe this. Guys and gals have faith. Isles will have karma on their side on this one. This is the same feeling as I had on Barzal before he hit 85 points this year and we know how that turned out. It will all work out in the wash. Give it time.

I agree, we were all a wreck a few weeks ago and it stings less and less with each day. I truly beLIeve him signing elsewhere is a blessing in disguise. It hurts a lot in the short term, but in the long run, the Isles will be OK. They've survived through darker times.

I would've loved to continue rooting for him as a captain but there is something refreshing about him being gone - it's a total clean slate. In just one year we swapped out Snow, Weight and Tavares for Lamoriello, Trotz and Barzal. His departure cannot be looked at in a vacuum, it existed in relation to and among a series of events, most of which, will make this franchise more competitive in the long run.

And yes, established superstars are more valuable then promising prospects, but heres the twist - He was going to get a massive deal, at least 11M AAV. With the dumbass contracts Snow gave out to Clutterbuck, Mayfield, Ladd we most likely would've wound up in a cap crunch of some sort, looking to off load a good player worth paying because of all the money on the books. Now were in a position where we could potentially have Ho-Sang, Barzal, Beauvillier and Pulock on bridge deals with Wahlstrom, Dobson and Wilde on ELC's. Thats how you compete!

 

[IslesNbeer]

I agree, we were all a wreck a few weeks ago and it stings less and less with each day. I truly beLIeve him signing elsewhere is a blessing in disguise. It hurts a lot in the short term, but in the long run, the Isles will be OK. They've survived through darker times.

I would've loved to continue rooting for him as a captain but there is something refreshing about him being gone - it's a total clean slate. In just one year we swapped out Snow, Weight and Tavares for Lamoriello, Trotz and Barzal. His departure cannot be looked at in a vacuum, it existed in relation to and among a series of events, most of which, will make this franchise more competitive in the long run.

And yes, established superstars are more valuable then promising prospects, but heres the twist - He was going to get a massive deal, at least 11M AAV. With the dumbass contracts Snow gave out to Clutterbuck, Mayfield, Ladd we most likely would've wound up in a cap crunch of some sort, looking to off load a good player worth paying because of all the money on the books. Now were in a position where we could potentially have Ho-Sang, Barzal, Beauvillier and Pulock on bridge deals with Wahlstrom, Dobson and Wilde on ELC's. Thats how you compete!

I love your outlook on this

 

[Goombha]

I do agree he didn't have purposeful intent to hurt the team, but he truly didn't care and definitely took a self-centered approach through it all. Toronto is his life, his home, and the Leafs are his dream. If you don't believe he was targeting this move years ago, you're fooling yourself. If you do believe he was being truthful when he said he wants to play out his career with the Islanders, you're fooling yourself. If you choose to believe he had no moral obligation to reveal his true intent, then you're just a fool.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

So if someone writes something that I see as uninformed and unreasonable, ie, John Tavares planned his move to Toronto long ago and intended to string the Isles along with the express purpose of not just leaving the team, but hurting it as much as possible in the process, a comment for which no one on this site has any evidence to support whatsoever but are permitted to write ad nauseam, are they trolling? That is, trying to start to argument with someone, say, like me, who just thinks JT made a tough decision that didn't go the Isles way? Because you could just as easily make that argument as the one the you seem so willing to defend. So, again, I don't GAS what you do, but my intent is not to "troll" anyone and never has been. My intent has been to defend a person who did all he could to represent this club well for nine years against some really vicious, ridiculous and totally unsupported garbage.

Should there be any validity to the "unsupported garbage" how would we know anyway?

The reality is ...

1. Many speculated Tavares would sign in Toronto dating back MULTIPLE years, some of which are respected hockey personalities and media figures.
2. Tavares himself dismissed this kind of speculation, which was well documented here: Complete Encyclopedia of Tavares telling the Leafs to get lost [Updated 9/7/17]
3. Tavares talked a big game about wanting to be "an Islander for life" and referencing the Dynasty era guys quite regularly.
4. Tavares referenced all that goes into a decision like the direction of the team, arena, etc. - A brand new state of the art facility approved, Lamoriello and Trotz were not good enough to keep him around
5. There are conflicting reports on whether or not he asked not to be traded at the deadline or whether Snow told him he would not be traded - he felt as Captain he needed to stay and go on a cold streak in the thick of the season.
6. Based on his statements, on no account did he entertain the idea of himself being traded for the sake of preserving assets for the NYI organization and moving the team forward - he talked about "the process" and "lifting a cup here" an awful lot for a guy that went into free agency and treated the Islanders no different then any other team, participating in the Hollywood-esque spectacle that was his listening period
7. Shortly after inking a deal with the Leafs, he spoke of his "Childhood Dream" - the one he just recalled after all of those years, serendipitously, during the listening period. There he is, elementary aged, clad in Leafs PJ's, adorable.
8. Referring to Barzal as "the kid who won the calder"
9. The PR job he spun up on the Players Tribune in response to the aforementioned.

I don't know what you are expecting in terms of conclusive evidence - what do you want? A journal entry? An audio file of him saying he's out? An SMS Emoji he sent Babcock? Considering all of the circumstantial evidence, this stinks like sh!t and i'm surprised as a veteran fan of the game that you haven't caught a whiff yet.

Perhaps, this wasn't as vindictive as some claim, but it certainly doesn't feel as pure and innocent as the apologists make it. The bottom line is the final failure falls on management, because they bought the bull story John was selling, till the moment he signed in Toronto. Tavares at the very least wanted to explore FA at the TDL, that is fair to say. The Isles brass was completely enamored with their franchise guy and totally blind to the reality that he was likely walking. A trade at the deadline that yielded a 1st Rounder and Prospect at MINIMUM would in no way shape or form interfere with Tavares ability to re-sign with the Islanders if he was in fact interested in returning. He wasn't.

He put up with a ton of crap and endured some awful seasons on Long Island, that's very true. But the last few seasons he moped around and many on these boards speculated he had one foot out the door (including myself), we were mocked and told to stop reading between the lines. Except when all was said and done, there was something to read between the lines and actually happened to be true.

Panarin has no connection to Columbus and he and his camp are being transparent with that organization, to the degree that they will likely get significant assets for him in a trade. Tavares earned the right to be a free agent and he didn't break any rules but he did string along an entire locker room and an entire fan base in a very long drawn fashion. I'm done writing on the topic, since it gets old very fast. I think Tavares is an excellent hockey player and great professional, as his teammates have called him. But I have doubts about how fit he was for captaincy. I for one do not know of any so called leaders who jump ship when things get tough, even if they've earned the right to do so and especially after they talked about getting that ship on course to the destination (the cup) so many times.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Should there be any validity to the "unsupported garbage" how would we know anyway?

The reality is ...

1. Many speculated Tavares would sign in Toronto dating back MULTIPLE years, some of which are respected hockey personalities and media figures.
2. Tavares himself dismissed this kind of speculation, which was well documented here: Complete Encyclopedia of Tavares telling the Leafs to get lost [Updated 9/7/17]
3. Tavares talked a big game about wanting to be "an Islander for life" and referencing the Dynasty era guys quite regularly.
4. Tavares referenced all that goes into a decision like the direction of the team, arena, etc. - A brand new state of the art facility approved, Lamoriello and Trotz were not good enough to keep him around
5. There are conflicting reports on whether or not he asked not to be traded at the deadline or whether Snow told him he would not be traded - he felt as Captain he needed to stay and go on a cold streak in the thick of the season.
6. Based on his statements, on no account did he entertain the idea of himself being traded for the sake of preserving assets for the NYI organization and moving the team forward - he talked about "the process" and "lifting a cup here" an awful lot for a guy that went into free agency and treated the Islanders no different then any other team, participating in the Hollywood-esque spectacle that was his listening period
7. Shortly after inking a deal with the Leafs, he spoke of his "Childhood Dream" - the one he just recalled after all of those years, serendipitously, during the listening period. There he is, elementary aged, clad in Leafs PJ's, adorable.
8. Referring to Barzal as "the kid who won the calder"
9. The PR job he spun up on the Players Tribune in response to the aforementioned.

I don't know what you are expecting in terms of conclusive evidence - what do you want? A journal entry? An audio file of him saying he's out? An SMS Emoji he sent Babcock? Considering all of the circumstantial evidence, this stinks like sh!t and i'm surprised as a veteran fan of the game that you haven't caught a whiff yet.

Perhaps, this wasn't as vindictive as some claim, but it certainly doesn't feel as pure and innocent as the apologists make it. The bottom line is the final failure falls on management, because they bought the bull story John was selling, till the moment he signed in Toronto. Tavares at the very least wanted to explore FA at the TDL, that is fair to say. The Isles brass was completely enamored with their franchise guy and totally blind to the reality that he was likely walking. A trade at the deadline that yielded a 1st Rounder and Prospect at MINIMUM would in no way shape or form interfere with Tavares ability to re-sign with the Islanders if he was in fact interested in returning. He wasn't.

He put up with a ton of crap and endured some awful seasons on Long Island, that's very true. But the last few seasons he moped around and many on these boards speculated he had one foot out the door (including myself), we were mocked and told to stop reading between the lines. Except when all was said and done, there was something to read between the lines and actually happened to be true.

Panarin has no connection to Columbus and he and his camp are being transparent with that organization, to the degree that they will likely get significant assets for him in a trade. Tavares earned the right to be a free agent and he didn't break any rules but he did string along an entire locker room and an entire fan base in a very long drawn fashion. I'm done writing on the topic, since it gets old very fast. I think Tavares is an excellent hockey player and great professional, as his teammates have called him. But I have doubts about how fit he was for captaincy. I for one do not know of any so called leaders who jump ship when things get tough, even if they've earned the right to do so and especially after they talked about getting that ship on course to the destination (the cup) so many times.

1. Most experts/insiders in June said they thought he was staying
2. Agreed, but he was following PR 101...what's he supposed to say "I can't wait to be a Leaf"?
3. See the above
4. New arena wouldn't be built until halfway through his contract, in the meantime he'd have to split playing at 2 different arenas. We don't know to what extent Lou and Trotz helped or hurt him staying.
5. It was Snow's responsibility to move him at the deadline to get assets back, not Tavares's. Considering Snow's job was on the line it wouldn't make sense for him to trade Tavares for future assets if he's trying to save his job. If Tavares told him not to be traded though, he deserves all the crap he gets.
6. Lou and Trotz were just like every other team that he met with...two guys he'd never worked with in the past and didn't know.
7. Agreed he knew the whole time that he was at the very least open to joining the Leafs
8. This one was awkward, but I think people are being a little too sensitive about it
9. If PR people wrote the Tribune story they should be canned. If the Leafs fandom aspect was taken out it would look much better for him

Ultimately I think if we were contenders he'd still be an Islander. Unfortunately we were never close to that during his tenure, and I do think in the back of his mind he wanted to be a Leaf. Leafs are on the way up, we're in a stage of a question mark, and I think the choice became easier for him to make.

I do think at some point he did intend to remain an Islander. Look at his extremely team friendly contract (arguably the best contract in the league other than ELC's), and he gave the team an extra year before hitting free agency. That's not signed if he wasn't serious about the Islanders at some point. But as the years go on and the team keeps failing, Wang keeps pinching pennies (despite Tavares purposely leaving money on the table for him), arena situation being a hot potato, and finally last year's performance I think it was the perfect storm for him to leave. He was the lone bright spot on this team for years and years...now imagine being that lone bright spot...honestly that would suck. He never complained, never whined, played out his contract, and lead this team to the best that it could have been.

In no way am I attempting to defend the guy, I'm just trying to say that there's many people to blame and that Tavares has become this really easy target. I personally blame Wang, Snow, Malkin, Tavares in that order.

 

[boredmale]

Many speculated Tavares would sign in Toronto dating back MULTIPLE years, some of which are respected hockey personalities and media figures.

Only thing I will say on this is it generally was the same guys who would write about every UFA signing with the Leafs or them being involved in every big trade

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I agree, we were all a wreck a few weeks ago and it stings less and less with each day. I truly beLIeve him signing elsewhere is a blessing in disguise. It hurts a lot in the short term, but in the long run, the Isles will be OK. They've survived through darker times.

I would've loved to continue rooting for him as a captain but there is something refreshing about him being gone - it's a total clean slate. In just one year we swapped out Snow, Weight and Tavares for Lamoriello, Trotz and Barzal. His departure cannot be looked at in a vacuum, it existed in relation to and among a series of events, most of which, will make this franchise more competitive in the long run.

And yes, established superstars are more valuable then promising prospects, but heres the twist - He was going to get a massive deal, at least 11M AAV. With the dumbass contracts Snow gave out to Clutterbuck, Mayfield, Ladd we most likely would've wound up in a cap crunch of some sort, looking to off load a good player worth paying because of all the money on the books. Now were in a position where we could potentially have Ho-Sang, Barzal, Beauvillier and Pulock on bridge deals with Wahlstrom, Dobson and Wilde on ELC's. Thats how you compete!

I agree. Great post!

 

[Silent Cal]

I do agree he didn't have purposeful intent to hurt the team, but he truly didn't care and definitely took a self-centered approach through it all. Toronto is his life, his home, and the Leafs are his dream. If you don't believe he was targeting this move years ago, you're fooling yourself. If you do believe he was being truthful when he said he wants to play out his career with the Islanders, you're fooling yourself. If you choose to believe he had no moral obligation to reveal his true intent, then you're just a fool.

"Moral obligation to reveal his true intent..."...Please stop. Please. He was obligated to do shit, plain and simple. Management only was obligated to do something.

 

[CaptDenisPotvin]

Of course, the team will do everything they can to prevent John from getting on the board in our home building.

I say, we install jumbo Nite Lites at the arenas, if he scores the main lights go out temporarily and NiteLites go on, they can play the beginning of a lullaby as the goal song.

Dallas does an excellent job of trolling visiting teams, not that the above is even realistic but I wouldn't mind a creative jab at JT when he does return. It would win over the fans and get everyone riled up

Maybe an "Islanders Bed Sheets" night

 

[ekill08x]

made the mistake of browsing the last page and i can see not much has changed.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

Prior to how he left, I thought he only had 2 good years .

I've always said three, but I hear you