OT: All Purpose Tavares Thread

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ScaredStreit

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May 5, 2006
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If you're happy with how everything went down, then stay out of this thread so that the real fans can continue to vent, without your emotionless philosophical arguments, that hold no validity for this situation, getting in the way. Go to the TOR board to post this stuff.

What makes somebody a real fan or a fake fan? Specifically what makes you a real fan and somebody else a fake fan, and how can you tell via hfboards? Am I real fan or a fake fan?

Oddly enough like the other poster I'm an Islander fan who lives in Tampa and I do cheer for the Lightning if they're not playing the Islanders and pointing out that they're a much better run organization doesn't mean I like them more (I don't), it's just reality.
 

leeroggy

Registered User
Jan 3, 2010
9,442
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Idk what an oak tag is but bringing in posters to line against the glass all the way around during warmups with his quotes would be incredible.

Oak Tag was the name we used for poster size thick paper when I was growing up in the 60'3-70's.
 

pursuit81

Registered User
Apr 12, 2018
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324
If you're happy with how everything went down, then stay out of this thread so that the real fans can continue to vent, without your emotionless philosophical arguments, that hold no validity for this situation, getting in the way. Go to the TOR board to post this stuff.
GTH with the "real fan" garbage. Been a fan since '72 and take a back seat to no one in my love of the Isles. Just not an inconsistent fool about it. JT built up nine years of good will with me playing for a bad team and a bad organization and never once complained so I take JT at his word that it was a tough decision. Do I wish he and the Isles had done the whole thing better, of course. I'm sure he wishes he had too. Furthermore, as much as I admired him, I am not sure he was or is the right player to lead this team and have been consistent in saying so, so I am ambivalent about his leaving. Short run, bad, maybe. Long run, it's gonna be ok.
 
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beach

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Aug 17, 2005
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GTH with the "real fan" garbage. Been a fan since '72 and take a back seat to no one in my love of the Isles. Just not an inconsistent fool about it. He built up nine years of good will with me playing for a bad team and a bad organization and never once complained so I take JT at his word that it was a tough decision. Do I wish he and the Isles had done the whole thing better, of course. I'm sure he wishes he had too. Furthermore, as much as I admired him, I am not sure he was or is the right player to lead this team and have been consistent in saying so, so I am ambivalent about his leaving. Short run, bad, maybe. Long run, it's gonna be ok.
So again, you have found peace in your heart about the whole thing. Good for you. So, leave the rest of us to vent in peace without your mightier than thou philosophical lectures.
 

pursuit81

Registered User
Apr 12, 2018
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So again, you have found peace in your heart about the whole thing. Good for you. So, leave the rest of us to vent in peace without your mightier than thou philosophical lectures.
Just as it is your right to vent, I'm pretty sure I still have the right to offer my perspective, which I will continue to do.
 

pursuit81

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Apr 12, 2018
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we’re upset because we thought he had class and we trusted him. Trusting your spouse and finding out they are a cheating whooore might make you glad that they left, but it doesn’t mean you won’t be pissed at them.
Wow, "cheating whooore". That's new. You know for certain that he was plotting this behind the Isles backs the whole time? You think LL was in on it and now can't say because of tampering rules? Pretty bold on JT's part. Maybe he's ballsier than I give him credit for.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,245
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Just as it is your right to vent, I'm pretty sure I still have the right to offer my perspective, which I will continue to do.

You're more than welcome to post elsewhere and give your opinion in a respectful manner, but this thread has seen way too many random posters we've never seen before pop up just to banter with our regulars.

Here's the thing. You just joined the board a few months ago and though you've said your an Islanders fan, you didn't start posting here until this Tavares stuff. For those reasons you'd be wise to tread lightly in this thread that contains many of our regular posters.
 

pursuit81

Registered User
Apr 12, 2018
540
324
You're more than welcome to post elsewhere and give your opinion in a respectful manner, but this thread has seen way too many random posters we've never seen before pop up just to banter with our regulars.

Here's the thing. You just joined the board a few months ago and though you've said your an Islanders fan, you didn't start posting here until this Tavares stuff. For those reasons you'd be wise to tread lightly in this thread that contains many of our regular posters.
I'm an Isles fan just like you are and as much as you are. I happen to not think JT is the demon he has been made out to be, for the most part, on this board. Now if that opinion offends you or think that it has no place on this board, perhaps I could recommend some third world, dictatorial nation for you to move to where freedom of speech is not as revered, but so far all I have done is express my opinion, which I assume is the purpose of this site. So take your threat somewhere else or ban me. If you do, that will say far more about you than me.
 

Kevin27NYI

Registered User
Aug 5, 2009
19,784
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I'm an Isles fan just like you are and as much as you are. I happen to not think JT is the demon he has been made out to be, for the most part, on this board. Now if that opinion offends you or think that it has no place on this board, perhaps I could recommend some third world, dictatorial nation for you to move to where freedom of speech is not as revered, but so far all I have done is express my opinion, which I assume is the purpose of this site. So take your threat somewhere else or ban me. If you do, that will say far more about you than me.
You're so annoying.
 

JeffNYI

Registered User
Jun 16, 2006
2,216
405
GTH with the "real fan" garbage. Been a fan since '72 and take a back seat to no one in my love of the Isles. Just not an inconsistent fool about it. JT built up nine years of good will with me playing for a bad team and a bad organization and never once complained so I take JT at his word that it was a tough decision. Do I wish he and the Isles had done the whole thing better, of course. I'm sure he wishes he had too. Furthermore, as much as I admired him, I am not sure he was or is the right player to lead this team and have been consistent in saying so, so I am ambivalent about his leaving. Short run, bad, maybe. Long run, it's gonna be ok.

As he proved with his actions, you are correct that he is not a champion caliber leader and we'll be better off finding someone who is. He clearly didn't want to be here, so that's not the guy you need leading the charge. We agree there.

But I cannot help but feel all of this was planned out a LONG time ago. All of it.

And all designed and orchestrated to protect his image.

Having 6 teams meet him at the agent's office was part of the rouse to make the hockey world and Islanders fans believe that JT was actually evaluating his options. But he wasn't. He knew for a very, very long time that he was going to be a Maple Leaf. He was also smart enough to know that the Leafs may have given up key assets during the 2017-18 season to acquire him, and JT wanted to make sure that didn't happen.

He was supposed to be looking out for OUR franchise, but it is plain as day to me that he was looking out for Toronto the whole time.

That's why people are angry. You've said a few times now that since we're so happy he's gone, we shouldn't still be angry.. but I would suggest to you that we're not upset that we don't have Tavares, we're upset that we don't have a few picks and prospects as a direct result of JT's handing of the situation.
 

YearlyLottery

The Pooch Report
Feb 7, 2013
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If he knew he was going to test the market in February (I agree with you that he did), then he couldn't possibly have not wanted to be trading because his new team would lose assets...that would mean he's re-signing with the team he was traded to and wouldn't make sense with him testing the market. If we're going to analyze everything little aspect or statement (which is why people got their hopes up in the first place) we're going to miss the big picture. Any reasons we apply to Tavares is all speculation since he's the only person who knows. I think it's probably because he didn't want to have to pack all his stuff up and play for another team for a few months only to leave and because while he was testing the market he was genuinely open to returning...but things changed (I honestly think that firing Snow/Weight is a big reason why).

Good post SS. I get the trading thing not making sense, but he still did not want to be traded either for the reason I stated or the quality reason that you have stated. The problem with the situation is that if he didn't want to pack his stuff up for a few months that is a new definition of lazy.

If Snow/Weight getting fired and being replaced with Lamoriello and Trotz is a reason why he left then I would much rather have new management in here. Ownership seems as if they learned their lesson with this though considering they got real hockey management in here. If Hunter gets signed here I will feel much more comfortable though. Hopefully you are feeling good about this new era of Isles hockey even if it takes a couple years to get there.

I didn't tell you that. I don't know what Tavares knew and neither do you. But in case you didn't realize it, this is the f**king NHL. Big boy hockey with big boy rules and one of those rules is that management is responsible for making the tough decisions. JT didn't sign an extension last year and he didn't sign one before Feb 28. Did Isles mgmnt need a god damn road map? This whole thing is 100% on them regardless of what JT knew or when he knew it. My fellow Isles fans spouting this nonsense need to grow the hell up. Besides, now that they "know his true character" as so many of amateur psychologist fans have now surmised, they should be glad he's gone and shut the hell up about it. In fact, they should be relieved.

Of course management is at fault. You would think that Tavares would have the courtesy to tell ownership "I'm not really sure what I am doing yet guys". That would have leaked already from the Tavares camp if he did to make him look better. He either didn't want to move for a year or few months OR just didn't want the Leafs to get him and give up assets for him.
 
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pursuit81

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Apr 12, 2018
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As he proved with his actions, you are correct that he is not a champion caliber leader and we'll be better off finding someone who is. He clearly didn't want to be here, so that's not the guy you need leading the charge. We agree there.

But I cannot help but feel all of this was planned out a LONG time ago. All of it.

And all designed and orchestrated to protect his image.

Having 6 teams meet him at the agent's office was part of the rouse to make the hockey world and Islanders fans believe that JT was actually evaluating his options. But he wasn't. He knew for a very, very long time that he was going to be a Maple Leaf. He was also smart enough to know that the Leafs may have given up key assets during the 2017-18 season to acquire him, and JT wanted to make sure that didn't happen.

He was supposed to be looking out for OUR franchise, but it is plain as day to me that he was looking out for Toronto the whole time.

That's why people are angry. You've said a few times now that since we're so happy he's gone, we shouldn't still be angry.. but I would suggest to you that we're not upset that we don't have Tavares, we're upset that we don't have a few picks and prospects as a direct result of JT's handing of the situation.
I don't buy into the "it was planned all along" sentiment but I too am pissed about the loss without anything in return. But as I said earlier, I put that squarely on management's shoulders. They had a big, difficult decision to make and they screwed the pooch. JT had not signed on the bottom line before the deadline and in business, that's the only metric the organization should have been looking at. It's not up to the player to do their job for them.
 
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pursuit81

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Good post SS. I get the trading thing not making sense, but he still did not want to be traded either for the reason I stated or the quality reason that you have stated. The problem with the situation is that if he didn't want to pack his stuff up for a few months that is a new definition of lazy.

If Snow/Weight getting fired and being replaced with Lamoriello and Trotz is a reason why he left then I would much rather have new management in here. Ownership seems as if they learned their lesson with this though considering they got real hockey management in here. If Hunter gets signed here I will feel much more comfortable though. Hopefully you are feeling good about this new era of Isles hockey even if it takes a couple years to get there.



Of course management is at fault. You would think that Tavares would have the courtesy to tell ownership "I'm not really sure what I am doing yet guys". That would have leaked already from the Tavares camp if he did to make him look better. He either didn't want to move for a year or few months OR just didn't want the Leafs to get him and give up assets for him.
He did tell them in the only way that matters: He didn't sign a contract.
 
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YearlyLottery

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He did tell them in the only way that matters: He didn't sign a contract.

Right but when your superstar player is basically whispering into your ear all these positive things, why wouldn't you believe him? It was a tricky situation considering that even though he wasn't signing the positive signs were there even with Lamoriello and Trotz speaking to him as well.
 

Buzzman17

Registered User
Apr 13, 2017
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As he proved with his actions, you are correct that he is not a champion caliber leader and we'll be better off finding someone who is. He clearly didn't want to be here, so that's not the guy you need leading the charge. We agree there.

But I cannot help but feel all of this was planned out a LONG time ago. All of it.

And all designed and orchestrated to protect his image.

Having 6 teams meet him at the agent's office was part of the rouse to make the hockey world and Islanders fans believe that JT was actually evaluating his options. But he wasn't. He knew for a very, very long time that he was going to be a Maple Leaf. He was also smart enough to know that the Leafs may have given up key assets during the 2017-18 season to acquire him, and JT wanted to make sure that didn't happen.

He was supposed to be looking out for OUR franchise, but it is plain as day to me that he was looking out for Toronto the whole time.

That's why people are angry. You've said a few times now that since we're so happy he's gone, we shouldn't still be angry.. but I would suggest to you that we're not upset that we don't have Tavares, we're upset that we don't have a few picks and prospects as a direct result of JT's handing of the situation.

His job was to fulfill his contractual obligations on the ice. He did. contract expired. He exercised his right to work where he wanted to work. your management failed the team, not tavares.
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
16,105
333
We don't know for certain what the conversations were between the team and JT and everyone should stop posting as though they were in the room because in the end none of us know and it was still managements job to draw the line and set the parameters. They failed to do so.

But again, aren't you glad that the "self-absorbed Judas" is gone and aren't you happy that he 'revealed his true self' before the Isles plunked down 80 million bucks on such a worthless POS?

To your second point, I'm an Isles fan first, last and always. I know it's a hard concept for the fringe wackos to get their heads around, but I live in Tampa area now and when they aren't playing the Isles, I like to see the Lightning do well. A well run, first class organization that plays good hockey is something to be admired. I hope the Isles will become that again very soon.
To your last point you have any number of posts on the Tampa board talking about Tampa as your team. I can go and copy/paste your comments here if you want. Sorry but you come off as highly fishy. Your posts here make your position even fishier.

Regarding Tavares your posts are no more than troll bait. He screwed us and he deserves every ounce of anger coming at him for his charade. The guy was the Captain and talked about what that meant and how deep his loyalty was. Then he pulls a two faced reveal and drops all of it like the mask it obviously was. But please keep defending him.

And we do know what he was thinking as he came clean about it in his text and then letter written to us. He was always a Leaf fan boy. The decision made itself. Too bad he did not give us a sign out of some loyalty he was done and should move him, that loyalty he falsely claimed to have. But you keep staring at the sun and telling us it doesn't exist, that is when you aren't staring at Lightning bolts.
 

ScaredStreit

Registered User
May 5, 2006
11,091
2,978
Tampa, FL
Good post SS. I get the trading thing not making sense,
but he still did not want to be traded either for the reason I stated or the quality reason that you have stated. The problem with the situation is that if he didn't want to pack his stuff up for a few months that is a new definition of lazy.

If Snow/Weight getting fired and being replaced with Lamoriello and Trotz is a reason why he left then I would much rather have new management in here. Ownership seems as if they learned their lesson with this though considering they got real hockey management in here. If Hunter gets signed here I will feel much more comfortable though. Hopefully you are feeling good about this new era of Isles hockey even if it takes a couple years to get there.

I agree 100% that I'd rather have Lou/Trotz without Tavares than Snow/Weight with Tavares. I think that having new coaching and management is a big reason as to why he was so open to other teams. He would have no reason to feel loyal to Lou or Barry, whereas in his letter and really we've known for a while now, that he's close to Snow and especially Weight.
 
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pursuit81

Registered User
Apr 12, 2018
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Right but when your superstar player is basically whispering into your ear all these positive things, why wouldn't you believe him? It was a tricky situation considering that even though he wasn't signing the positive signs were there even with Lamoriello and Trotz speaking to him as well.
Hey, everybody, including me, thought he was coming back and I get the anger and the frustration, but what I don't like is the notion that we can get inside JT's head or know what he was thinking or planning. I don't believe he had his mind made up but who knows. What I do know is that he had a nine year track record to go on and that means something to me. I think he is an honorable guy who had a hard decision to make. Go back to a team that I really believe he loved playing for but that is at least two or three years away from a Cup, even with him, or go to a team that can win now with him, and a team he loved growing up. Who wouldn't agonize? Having said that, I hope the Leafs lose every game and JT ends up with 40 pts next season, but that is cause I hate the Leafs, not JT.
 

pursuit81

Registered User
Apr 12, 2018
540
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To your last point you have any number of posts on the Tampa board talking about Tampa as your team. I can go and copy/paste your comments here if you want. Sorry but you come off as highly fishy. Your posts here make your position even fishier.

Regarding Tavares your posts are no more than troll bait. He screwed us and he deserves every ounce of anger coming at him for his charade. The guy was the Captain and talked about what that meant and how deep his loyalty was. Then he pulls a two faced reveal and drops all of it like the mask it obviously was. But please keep defending him.

And we do know what he was thinking as he came clean about it in his text and then letter written to us. He was always a Leaf fan boy. The decision made itself. Too bad he did not give us a sign out of some loyalty he was done and should move him, that loyalty he falsely claimed to have. But you keep staring at the sun and telling us it doesn't exist, that is when you aren't staring at Lightning bolts.
I've already explained my Tampa connection, so post away. Isles come first and always have.
 

Quicklime

Registered User
Sep 25, 2006
5,569
653
Denver, CO
Hey, everybody, including me, thought he was coming back and I get the anger and the frustration, but what I don't like is the notion that we can get inside JT's head or know what he was thinking or planning. I don't believe he had his mind made up but who knows. What I do know is that he had a nine year track record to go on and that means something to me. I think he is an honorable guy who had a hard decision to make. Go back to a team that I really believe he loved playing for but that is at least two or three years away from a Cup, even with him, or go to a team that can win now with him, and a team he loved growing up. Who wouldn't agonize? Having said that, I hope the Leafs lose every game and JT ends up with 40 pts next season, but that is cause I hate the Leafs, not JT.

One doesn't have to get into his head.

Actions speak louder than words.

Don't like opinions in the thread? Don't click.
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
16,105
333
I agree 100% that I'd rather have Lou/Trotz without Tavares than Snow/Weight with Tavares. I think that having new coaching and management is a big reason as to why he was so open to other teams. He would have no reason to feel loyal to Lou or Barry, whereas in his letter and really we've known for a while now, that he's close to Snow and especially Weight.
When he started mailing his play in after December both those guys looked fairly solid in their positions. Maybe them both going added fuel to his fire in the end but that did not start the fire. Just read his letter and text. The decision made itself and then apply it to when he went from saying he wanted to stay here to "I don't want to talk about contracts." Panarin just gave a class in how to be honest about your position. Tavares gave the opposite which for a guy who professed love for team and character shows how hollow his words really were.
 

JeffNYI

Registered User
Jun 16, 2006
2,216
405
His job was to fulfill his contractual obligations on the ice. He did. contract expired. He exercised his right to work where he wanted to work. your management failed the team, not tavares.

Your first three sentences contributed some excellent new information. Great stuff.

As for the final sentence, you're speaking as though we made a wild guess that turned out wrong,... but it's been well documented that JT signaled the entire time that he was returning. So our management was obviously misled or he would have been moved.
 

teknics

@islesblogger/@faithfulisles
Apr 7, 2007
780
176
East End
www.theislesfaithful.com
I hate self promoting, I stopped a long time ago around here...but did anyone catch my three part series on “The Departure”?

There’s a lot of people here who don’t know me, but you can find it via Twitter - I’m @islesblogger

I’ll be active writing again.
 

ScaredStreit

Registered User
May 5, 2006
11,091
2,978
Tampa, FL
When he started mailing his play in after December both those guys looked fairly solid in their positions. Maybe them both going added fuel to his fire in the end but that did not start the fire. Just read his letter and text. The decision made itself and then apply it to when he went from saying he wanted to stay here to "I don't want to talk about contracts." Panarin just gave a class in how to be honest about your position. Tavares gave the opposite which for a guy who professed love for team and character shows how hollow his words really were.

I agree but it's not Tavares's responsibility to decide whether he gets traded or not to get assets for him...that Snow's job. And let's be honest we all knew Snow's feet were close to the fire and if he traded Tavares away regardless of what he got in return he'd be sealing his end as GM. I'm just saying Tavares wasn't the only selfish one or one to blame. It's hard to say that a guy who signed arguably the best contract in the league for 6 years and gave the team an extra year to build around him is the selfish one when the team failed to use any of the save money on the team in terms of players, coaches, or manaement. Imagine signing such a team friendly deal so your team can compete...and they're trading for retired players so their salaries help them reach the floor. Just suggesting we should have some perspective and spread the blame around.
 
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