Pre-Game Talk: All Purpose Off Day Thread | Blue! My Boy!

[Peat]

ZAR and McCann (or Teddy) would work for Geno. Hornqvist with Crosby. IDK when Rust comes back but he helps somewhere.

We put Phil with Bjugs and just hope it works. Perhaps in the playoffs we let Cullen center that line.

We really should have traded Phil last offseason once Kessel-Malkin got its brains beat in during the playoffs and it was apparent that Sid didn't want to play with him.

Kessel-Malkin didn't really play together last playoffs. And I'm not sure Cullen can still jump up the lines the way he once could.

And I'm not sure about ZAR & McCann/Teddy either. That's basically a lesser version of Hagelin/Horny with a battling player forced onto his backhand on the boards. Could work but that's more pressure than I want to put on Geno. I'd feel a lot happier if one of those guys was Rust.

Also its just not realistic to expect Guentzel-Crosby-McCann to be broken up for at least another game and probably more.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Kessel-Malkin didn't really play together last playoffs. And I'm not sure Cullen can still jump up the lines the way he once could.

And I'm not sure about ZAR & McCann/Teddy either. That's basically a lesser version of Hagelin/Horny with a battling player forced onto his backhand on the boards. Could work but that's more pressure than I want to put on Geno. I'd feel a lot happier if one of those guys was Rust.

Also its just not realistic to expect Guentzel-Crosby-McCann to be broken up for at least another game and probably more.

Just separate Malkin and Kessel. Your first-order conditions should be Crosby and Jake together and Malkin and Phil apart. Once Rust is back, he should be stapled to Malkin's RW. Until then, just go with a lefty on Malkin's RW or even put Hornqvist there if you want to keep McCann up on 1L.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think we can (and should) do better than ZAR for Geno's wing moving forward. Sid and Geno aren't getting any younger, and I think the tried and true "put a fringe guy with 'em and they'll figure it out" thing isn't gonna cut it anymore.

I don't dislike ZAR, and he's been playing relatively well lately, but I'm still not convinced he's a top-6 guy. Especially on a team with aging superstar centers that will need all the help they can get in trying for one more Cup before they're over the hill.

Obviously things are a big tough right now, but by October I'd really like to see a new winger on this team for Geno (and Rust, who I think should be stapled to Geno's wing).

 

[Peat]

Just separate Malkin and Kessel. Your first-order conditions should be Crosby and Jake together and Malkin and Phil apart. Once Rust is back, he should be stapled to Malkin's RW. Until then, just go with a lefty on Malkin's RW or even put Hornqvist there if you want to keep McCann up on 1L.

I'm just not as bothered about splitting them as you. They're dominating possession together at the moment and I think there's a good chance shots start going in soon. I'll be happy whichever way Sully goes.

I think we can (and should) do better than ZAR for Geno's wing moving forward. Sid and Geno aren't getting any younger, and I think the tried and true "put a fringe guy with 'em and they'll figure it out" thing isn't gonna cut it anymore.

I don't dislike ZAR, and he's been playing relatively well lately, but I'm still not convinced he's a top-6 guy. Especially on a team with aging superstar centers that will need all the help they can get in trying for one more Cup before they're over the hill.

Obviously things are a big tough right now, but by October I'd really like to see a new winger on this team for Geno (and Rust, who I think should be stapled to Geno's wing).

This. Sid doesn't have the season he's had without Jake and Tanger. Taking nothing away from him but he can't climb Everest without the right base camp.

Geno doesn't have that base camp and that should be the chief objective this summer - give Geno more support. Maybe ZAR will be a guy who contributes there in the summer, but I'd rather let him prove it in short spells rather than being penciled in.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I have no issue with Hornqvist on the third line, but I'd prefer him on Sid's wing. I've really liked what I've seen with McCann on with Jake and Sid.

If we can get a bonafide scoring guy for Geno and Rust I think our top-9 is set.

Of course, this is all assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that Kessel will be gone in the next 3 or 4 months.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

So... what type of center does Hornqvist work with?

 

[HandshakeLine]

So... what type of center does Hornqvist work with?

A Crosby type one, if the conventional wisdom holds.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

So... what type of center does Hornqvist work with?

Sidney Crosby. But for whatever reason (it's come to my attention that apparently Sid does not like playing with Hornqvist?) the Jake-Sid-Horny line isn't chiseled in stone for all eternity.

Hornqvist has had good stretches with Geno, too, but I really like the Geno-Rust combo. Assuming they're together, I'd like to see a more creative guy, capable of creating offense on his own on the other side.

 

[Peat]

So... what type of center does Hornqvist work with?

Most of them tbh. He had really solid underlying numbers with Bonino, him and Sheahan did decent (and were very good with Sheary), and he's got good numbers with Cullen - and had amazing numbers with him in Nashville. And has been good with both Sid and Geno.

That said... I think he trends a little better with pacy centres who play a good below the hash marks game - people who can lift the pressure off him transition wise and set up the cycle that lets him get near the goaltender. So Sid. Or good Cullen.

 

[LittleSpoon]

I have no issue with Hornqvist on the third line, but I'd prefer him on Sid's wing. I've really liked what I've seen with McCann on with Jake and Sid.

If we can get a bonafide scoring guy for Geno and Rust I think our top-9 is set.

Of course, this is all assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that Kessel will be gone in the next 3 or 4 months.

Isnt Kessel a bonafide scoring guy?

 

[Gurglesons]

Isnt Kessel a bonafide scoring guy?

Look at his goal totals this year. They’re Boninoesque.

 

[LittleSpoon]

Look at his goal totals this year. They’re Boninoesque.

21 and a ppg player?
What’s his cap hit again?
And a year removed from I believe 92 points.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Isnt Kessel a bonafide scoring guy?

If he was the answer, I don't think it'd be so frequently discussed. He's the same age Sid and Geno are, and we need to get younger. The whole point of the discussion topic is that this team needs to surround Sid and Geno with younger guys that are capable of easing the pressuring on them as they get older and can't dominate games as frequently anymore. If Phil's in the same boat, isn't that an issue? I know it's been talked about ad nauseam, but Phil and Sully have butted heads, he's getting older, he seems to be having a harder time pulling his weight on any line he's put on, he doesn't really seem to have the same impact at ES as in seasons past, etc.

I don't think this is an issue of people driving Phil out of town. I think this is a situation where the team needs to futureproof as best they can in an effort to give Sid and Geno the best chance at another Cup or two before The Decline begins. There are just too many signs pointing to Phil as the guy on his way out, and I appreciate all he's done in his time here--I really do--but he's certainly not a guy you want to be left with when the wheels fall off and you have to try to move him. One day early as opposed to one too late type of situation.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Most of them tbh. He had really solid underlying numbers with Bonino, him and Sheahan did decent (and were very good with Sheary), and he's got good numbers with Cullen - and had amazing numbers with him in Nashville. And has been good with both Sid and Geno.

That said... I think he trends a little better with pacy centres who play a good below the hash marks game - people who can lift the pressure off him transition wise and set up the cycle that lets him get near the goaltender. So Sid. Or good Cullen.

This is pretty much what I would have said if I wasn't being a snarky ass.

Kessel's an interesting problem. If Kessel's getting traded, then I'd for sure try to get back a young-Cullen kind of center for Hornqvist. If Hornqvist however, is the one going out (for whatever reason), then you keep Kessel, IMO. It doesn't make sense to me to lose both, and it's not entirely certain to me which is more valuable for this team going forward.

 

[LittleSpoon]

If he was the answer, I don't think it'd be so frequently discussed. He's the same age Sid and Geno are, and we need to get younger. The whole point of the discussion topic is that this team needs to surround Sid and Geno with younger guys that are capable of easing the pressuring on them as they get older and can't dominate games as frequently anymore. If Phil's in the same boat, isn't that an issue? I know it's been talked about ad nauseam, but Phil and Sully have butted heads, he's getting older, he seems to be having a harder time pulling his weight on any line he's put on, he doesn't really seem to have the same impact at ES as in seasons past, etc.

I don't think this is an issue of people driving Phil out of town. I think this is a situation where the team needs to futureproof as best they can in an effort to give Sid and Geno the best chance at another Cup or two before The Decline begins. There are just too many signs pointing to Phil as the guy on his way out, and I appreciate all he's done in his time here--I really do--but he's certainly not a guy you want to be left with when the wheels fall off and you have to try to move him. One day early as opposed to one too late type of situation.

I think its just a down year, but I am not opposed to replacing him. Not the biggest fan of it but not opposed. The only thing is you need to replicate his production at least, and to do so for cheaper and younger is a tough thing to accomplish. Thats why I feel that if you trade him it has to be for a stud Dman, and not a scoring winger. I would rather take the chance that a great OD or PMD would improve our scoring chances via transition and point shots, versus looking for that diamond in the rough winger. There are options out there at forward I think would work, but I dont think at a equal price.

 

[Gurglesons]

21 and a ppg player?
What’s his cap hit again?
And a year removed from I believe 92 points.

Kessel’s last ES goal was 1/30. He has 5 ES goals since 12/17.

If that is bonafide scoring cool.

 

[The Old Master]

Isnt Kessel a bonafide scoring guy?

yes he is but the styles don't mesh. he forces geno to cover for him (geno rarely wants to cover for himself) and to let phil carry the puck.

 

[LittleSpoon]

Kessel’s last ES goal was 1/30. He has 5 ES goals since 12/17.

If that is bonafide scoring cool.

Slumps never happen eh? Guy still has over 20 goals even with a month + drought, and could potentially pot 30 still. Talk about recency bias to negate a players actual worth.

 

[The Old Master]

So... what type of center does Hornqvist work with?

a center that can do it all by himself so horny can go sit in front if the net. (sid) but sid wants more out of his winger.

 

[Peat]

If he was the answer, I don't think it'd be so frequently discussed.

Sums it up. Phil does a lot of good things, but he's not the dream partner for Geno like Jake is for Sid or Dumo is for Tanger. Maybe we can't improve on Geno's support using Kessel as a trade chip but the question is at least live.

This is pretty much what I would have said if I wasn't being a snarky ass.

Snark on Brother Lin.

Kessel's an interesting problem. If Kessel's getting traded, then I'd for sure try to get back a young-Cullen kind of center for Hornqvist. If Hornqvist however, is the one going out (for whatever reason), then you keep Kessel, IMO. It doesn't make sense to me to lose both, and it's not entirely certain to me which is more valuable for this team going forward.

Hmm. I wonder if Vegas would be interested in moving on from Haula now that he's about to get paid and that they've spread some major cap around.

 

[LittleSpoon]

yes he is but the styles don't mesh. he forces geno to cover for him (geno rarely wants to cover for himself) and to let phil carry the puck.

Pretty sure there styles mesh just fine in my opinion. I think its more critical to get that two way forward on the opposite wing. aka Hagelin or such a type of player. If people want to say they want a two way forward with Geno, then say that...but to say you want a scoring winger; he is already there.

 

[Gurglesons]

Slumps never happen eh? Guy still has over 20 goals even with a month + drought, and could potentially pot 30 still. Talk about recency bias to negate a players actual worth.

Like I said, Boninoesque streaky scoring. If we were going to fault Bonino who didn’t have the luxury of feeding passes to Geno for not scoring not sure why Kessel gets a pass for scoring 10ish goals in three months.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think its just a down year, but I am not opposed to replacing him. Not the biggest fan of it but not opposed. The only thing is you need to replicate his production at least, and to do so for cheaper and younger is a tough thing to accomplish. Thats why I feel that if you trade him it has to be for a stud Dman, and not a scoring winger. I would rather take the chance that a great OD or PMD would improve our scoring chances via transition and point shots, versus looking for that diamond in the rough winger. There are options out there at forward I think would work, but I dont think at a equal price.

Yeah, I don't have anything against Phil, I just don't think he's the right choice anymore moving forward.

In any event, he's a guy you look to move because of numerous reasons, none of which are personal. He's a high (relative) value asset, he's another in an aging core and you're certainly not moving Sid or Geno, he's had some serious struggles this season, and his cap hit frees up a lot of room to go another direction; be it at forward or on defense (though I think we need to jettison JJ, Gudbranson and Maatta as well if you're serious about reshaping the blueline).

 

[Peat]

Pretty sure there styles mesh just fine in my opinion. I think its more critical to get that two way forward on the opposite wing. aka Hagelin or such a type of player. If people want to say they want a two way forward with Geno, then say that...but to say you want a scoring winger; he is already there.

I want a two way forward that scores with Geno.

 

[LittleSpoon]

Like I said, Boninoesque streaky scoring. If we were going to fault Bonino who didn’t have the luxury of feeding passes to Geno for not scoring not sure why Kessel gets a pass for scoring 10ish goals in three months.

Bonino has never reached near the average of Kessel. And Bones had kessel to dish to. Again he is a ppg player. Yea he hasnt been potting the goals lately, but if you think that wont change at all then I dont know how we can continue this conversation. Agree to disagree.
And just to add Malkin has the same amount of goals and one more total point. Guess he is bonioesque too eh?
And after looking Bones has only hit 20 one time his whole career. Kessel averages between 20-30ish