All Purpose Coronavirus Discussion Part XV: The Positive One

Which is greatest and best?


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Cody Webster

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
25,218
23,339
This sums up my word day

tenor (1).gif


My hair pretty much matches so to not getting it cut since January
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
128,054
165,925
Armored Train
And the things that Germany was good at making, they either used very poorly or focused on the completely wrong thing. Looking at you, Types VII and IX U-Boot.

The navy they wanted to build but never did would have been a waste of resources that would've been gutted by the Royal Navy too. Lots of bizarre destroyer and cruiser in-between designs meant for incredibly precise situations that rarely ever occurred, which would get ripped apart in the situations that did actually occur. Plus their steam propulsion systems were nightmarish to the extent that most of them might put in a year of action before waiting 2-3 years for facility space to be overhauled.
 
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Captain Dave Poulin

Imaginary Cat
Apr 30, 2015
68,258
200,339
Tokyo, JP
I just want to be clear that you know how many cats live in bodegas before you commit to this.

I'm kind of shocked Influencer didn't make the initial list too.

If you mean the number of cats who live in shops in New York, that's awesome. Unfortunately, the dipshits who name the shops and call them "bodegas" are doing so only to make noise, to be loud and obnoxious, to say "NOTICE ME! NOTICE ME!" and nothing that anyone can say can ever change that, because they all suck.

"Influencer" and "hater" are totally gagworthy, but I totally dismiss them as digital social media vomit.
 

Captain Dave Poulin

Imaginary Cat
Apr 30, 2015
68,258
200,339
Tokyo, JP
No, they could not have taken the UK. For the same reason Napoleon couldn't. No navy fit to do so. You can't drive a tank across the Channel. And paratroops need support, otherwise they'd have been slaughtered. Successful evacuation at Dunkirk and the existence of the Royal Navy made that enterprise impossible.

Germany was also very slow to get on a war footing economically, as well. Which is baffling, but for being an autocracy Nazi Germany was stunningly decentralized and prone to bitter internal disputes which the social Darwinist in Hitler loved, he believed that infighting was good as it would produce the best results. In fact, it produced massive inefficiency. That inefficiency made it impossible for Germany to build an aircraft carrier, for instance. But, the economic revival of Germany was a major selling point for keeping popular support, and stripping that all away to feed war was almost certainly seen as something to be avoided for as long as possible.

Hitler also lost his mind the second the Brits bombed a German target. At that point he switched from pummeling the RAF and focused on cities instead. He let the RAF up off the mat and they defeated Germany. On top of all that, Germany flat out didn't have the engineering culture for the kind of mass production required as well as the lack of central focus to direct efforts to external fights rather than bitter and deeply counterproductive infighting. Plus, Germany had to dive into Soviet territory to gain access to resources (particularly oil supplies and refineries) that Stalin otherwise wasn't going to be handing over, so presuming they don't attack Russia that means their fuel issues would have been present sooner. All the men in the world mean nothing if you can't drive, fly, or ship them around.

I like to believe that the RAF won the War in Europe in the Battle of Britain.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
128,054
165,925
Armored Train
I like to believe that the RAF won the War in Europe in the Battle of Britain.

Even if Hitler somehow changes his mind on invading Russia (which is quite a humongous change, attacking Russia was almost integral to his being) and invading Normandy was impossible, establishing supremacy in the air makes delivering the inevitable nukes a whole lot easier. Which is where things were originally heading either way.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
128,054
165,925
Armored Train
Some more digging on Germany's war economy and production: They only managed to build 20,000 of the "next gen" FW-190 which was meant to be a match for the likes of Hurricanes and Spitfires. The UK alone produced 35,000 Hurricanes and Spitfires. This is with it being found that through most of the building period, attempts to destroy vital aircraft supplies (and machine components in general) like ball bearing factories hadn't had any appreciable impact on German production.

They simply did not have the economic capacity to match the UK alone, much less the UK with full US support to boot.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
No, they could not have taken the UK. For the same reason Napoleon couldn't. No navy fit to do so. You can't drive a tank across the Channel. And paratroops need support, otherwise they'd have been slaughtered. Successful evacuation at Dunkirk and the existence of the Royal Navy made that enterprise impossible.

Germany was also very slow to get on a war footing economically, as well. Which is baffling, but for being an autocracy Nazi Germany was stunningly decentralized and prone to bitter internal disputes which the social Darwinist in Hitler loved, he believed that infighting was good as it would produce the best results. In fact, it produced massive inefficiency. That inefficiency made it impossible for Germany to build an aircraft carrier, for instance. But, the economic revival of Germany was a major selling point for keeping popular support, and stripping that all away to feed war was almost certainly seen as something to be avoided for as long as possible.

Hitler also lost his mind the second the Brits bombed a German target. At that point he switched from pummeling the RAF and focused on cities instead. He let the RAF up off the mat and they defeated Germany. On top of all that, Germany flat out didn't have the engineering culture for the kind of mass production required as well as the lack of central focus to direct efforts to external fights rather than bitter and deeply counterproductive infighting. Plus, Germany had to dive into Soviet territory to gain access to resources (particularly oil supplies and refineries) that Stalin otherwise wasn't going to be handing over, so presuming they don't attack Russia that means their fuel issues would have been present sooner. All the men in the world mean nothing if you can't drive, fly, or ship them around.

Hitler was also nuts.

The Germans could have easily driven southeast from Greece through Turkey and down the coast, while providing far more support for the North Afrika corps - that would have allowed them to seize the Persian Gulf and made the Mediterranean a Nazi lake. If he was worried about the Russians on the North flank, seize the Crimea, and what is now Georgia, using the Caucasus Mountains as a natural barrier. This would have presented Stalin with a fait accompli, and made it difficult for the Russians to respond, since they would have lost their major naval base on the Black Sea, and logistically would have found it difficult to mount attacks on German positions on the South shore of the Black sea or south of the Caucasus.

The British could not have withstood the Germans if they had focused on North Africa and the Middle East. They were spread far too thin, and their naval power would have been of limited utility.

Instead, he goes East, which had little strategic value but fit his megalomania - why bother to conquer Russia, blockade the North Sea, control the Dardanelles Straits and Stalin will have to accept your terms, especially with the Japanese sealing off their Pacific ports.
 

Asnito

Blood Rival to a Briere Simp
Mar 2, 2017
6,965
15,604
And the things that Germany was good at making, they either used very poorly or focused on the completely wrong thing. Looking at you, Types VII and IX U-Boot.

The navy they wanted to build but never did would have been a waste of resources that would've been gutted by the Royal Navy too. Lots of bizarre destroyer and cruiser in-between designs meant for incredibly precise situations that rarely ever occurred, which would get ripped apart in the situations that did actually occur. Plus their steam propulsion systems were nightmarish to the extent that most of them might put in a year of action before waiting 2-3 years for facility space to be overhauled.
Don't forget the fact they over engineered many weapons most notably the 105mm howitzer. The German and American versions where similar but the German version used almost twice as many parts and thus reliability suffered. In fact a lot of their equipment suffered from reliability issues especially the Mark V and Mark VI.
 

Asnito

Blood Rival to a Briere Simp
Mar 2, 2017
6,965
15,604
If you mean the number of cats who live in shops in New York, that's awesome. Unfortunately, the dipshits who name the shops and call them "bodegas" are doing so only to make noise, to be loud and obnoxious, to say "NOTICE ME! NOTICE ME!" and nothing that anyone can say can ever change that, because they all suck.

"Influencer" and "hater" are totally gagworthy, but I totally dismiss them as digital social media vomit.
Before your blood pressure gets too high
EJMfxA5.gif
 

Asnito

Blood Rival to a Briere Simp
Mar 2, 2017
6,965
15,604
Hitler also fell for the dummy invasion. Where the US had all the Hollywood props set up further down the coast. Hitler took the bait and took some of his forces away from Normandy to get ready for the “invasion ”
Patton played a role in that as he wasn't a part of the invasion when the Germans were sure he would be.
 

Embiid

Off IR for now
May 27, 2010
32,685
21,006
Philadelphia
Don't forget the fact they over engineered many weapons most notably the 105mm howitzer. The German and American versions where similar but the German version used almost twice as many parts and thus reliability suffered. In fact a lot of their equipment suffered from reliability issues especially the Mark V and Mark VI.
Remember the Hindenburg and that little bit about using hydrogen over helium....although the US had hoarded helium at the time and Germans had been using hydrogen for their Zeppelins for 20 years so they thought they had a good handle on potential leaks. Oh the humanity.....
 
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