Player Discussion All Encompassing Goaltending Megathread: Part II

[Chimpradamus]

I can't believe I continue to see this silly argument season after season. Do you really think the strategy was to turtle in the third? Or maybe, just maybe, a massive push from a beyond desperate team was the reason Montreal carried play. Sometimes it's the other teams oerformance ya know.

But to push a narrative that the Rangers are being told not to play offense is really really dumb. And it gets pushed every time the Rangers get out played. Hockey, especially playoff hockey, is a game of momentum and more often times than not the momentum swings to the more desperate team. I cannot believe there's people who have watched hockey for years and still believe some half-baked thought that the Rangers are willingly shooting themselves in the foot

"Silly argument season after season." Yeah, maybe you can see that as a coincidence, game after game. It's pretty obvious the team is given orders by the coach to get the puck deep, keep 30 second shifts and... yeah, that's what gets you in turtle mode for periods of time, because whenever you get the puck back, it's time for a line change, ordered by the coach.

How about pushing back once and then? How about even trying to score once and then? How about even trying to counterattack on the rush, which has been the main implement of scoring as a strategy since AV entered as a coach? Nope. Nope! So yes, maybe I'm a little to hard on the guy considering his team threw a ton of hits and were gassed. Just maybe they should've paced themselves so they could manage to play at least 60 minutes of hockey then and not 40.

How can it be a mystery NYR sees it as an achievement to lift the puck out in the offensive zone for a line change, instead of an icing whenever the team has a lead coming into the last period? It isn't and it's ****ing idiotic coaching. How were you winning the game in the first place? Let's stop doing that, yeah, what a great strategy! Let the team strategy BASED ON COUNTERATTACK turtle for 20 minutes and hope one goal is enough. It makes me barf watching that idiot behind the bench.

What happened after MTL drew the game? NYR was pushed back, because AV allowed the momentum to be 100% MTL and that's how this guy has coached every game of his career. How much success does this strategy have? But you can keep defending the "I don't want to lose more than I want to win" strategy how much you want.

Like that would stop AV from his convictions how to win a hockey game, even though he has zero proof it works. Especially considering how ****ing awful he is at picking his personel for the job.

If AV is considered one of the best coaches, it's pretty clear it's the management side that is decades behind every other aspect of NHL and hockey today, because they get the job based on reputation, not on competence. It's a closed circle of incompetence trying to coach an elite hockey team. It's exactly like the CEO circus. Once you're in, you're in. So who's the next clown who is going to coach NYR after AV? Some idiot with obsolete coaching strategies and irrelevant ideas of what signifies a good hockey player? I cannot wait to see what clown that'll be.

How about getting an actual coach with actual intelligence, actual adaptation and who knows what he's doing in the present? Unheard of, except for a very select few that the business barely even know who they are. Why? Because they're a business establishment and not actual sports fanatics and hence, they have no idea what they're looking for.

So the NHL gets a rotation of clowns who coach the teams and manage the teams and it sickens me.

TL;DR: AV has one advantage to his opponents, his forward depth. And he effectively neuters them with his strategy whenever the team has a lead. **** him, he's useless as a coach. AV as a coach could be exchanged with a script bot and it would be way cheaper.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I gotta say, I was not liking Hank's play earlier in the season, and he has definitely declined a lot, but I do think he's still a starting goalie. Earlier in the season, I was questioning if he still is a starting caliber NHL goalie. I think he's probably now somewhere around middle of the pack in the NHL, but thats fine. We only need him to hold down the fort another two years.

And Raanta has to go in the offseason for picks/prospects, if he's not picked in the expansion draft. He's not going to overtake Hank, regardless of if he's better than Hank, so just trade him. The difference between Raanta and the average back up is not the difference between us making the playoffs or not making it. He won't play in the playoffs because of Hank's contract. Find a back up for Hank for two years in the offseason when Raanta goes, and then Hank will become the back up in two years.

 

[Siddi]

I gotta say, I was not liking Hank's play earlier in the season, and he has definitely declined a lot, but I do think he's still a starting goalie. Earlier in the season, I was questioning if he still is a starting caliber NHL goalie. I think he's probably now somewhere around middle of the pack in the NHL, but thats fine. We only need him to hold down the fort another two years.

And Raanta has to go in the offseason for picks/prospects, if he's not picked in the expansion draft. He's not going to overtake Hank, regardless of if he's better than Hank, so just trade him. The difference between Raanta and the average back up is not the difference between us making the playoffs or not making it. He won't play in the playoffs because of Hank's contract. Find a back up for Hank for two years in the offseason when Raanta goes, and then Hank will become the back up in two years.

To say this after what we have just witnessed so far in this series is nothing short of stupid. He is outplaying the so called best goalie in the world and you have him pegged as a average starter?!

I know that you have right to your opinion but this is borderline trolling IMO!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

To say this after what we have just witnessed so far in this series is nothing short of stupid. He is outplaying the so called best goalie in the world and you have him pegged as a average starter?!

I know that you have right to your opinion but this is borderline trolling IMO!

Absolutely not trolling. Hank is at the point in his career where he can put in some very good performances, but also has some lackluster performances. He had a very up and down season. Going into the season, I said he was maybe around 5th best and declining, but after this season where he played as a below-average starting goalie, I would have to say its only fair to drop him some from 5th. This was the worst season of his career.

But as you said, we have witnessed so far that Hank still has the capability to put in some really good performances. Its just not consistent anymore. I don't think anyone prefers that, but its fine. He's being paid on past performance like many of our players, but if his good play can come during these few months where he elevates his game, that would be fine. He was playing so poorly early in the season where I think it had to be questioned whether he was even up and down as opposed to consistently not good.

 

[Siddi]

Absolutely not trolling. Hank is at the point in his career where he can put in some very good performances, but also has some lackluster performances. He had a very up and down season. Going into the season, I said he was maybe around 5th best and declining, but after this season where he played as a below-average starting goalie, I would have to say its only fair to drop him some from 5th. This was the worst season of his career.

But as you said, we have witnessed so far that Hank still has the capability to put in some really good performances. Its just not consistent anymore. I don't think anyone prefers that, but its fine. He's being paid on past performance like many of our players, but if his good play can come during these few months where he elevates his game, that would be fine. He was playing so poorly early in the season where I think it had to be questioned whether he was even up and down as opposed to consistently not good.

Natural decline due to age is expected but I for one am very hesitant to declare him an average goaltender based on 1 bad season out of 12.

 

[haohmaru]

Can Shesty get here by game time from Russia?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Natural decline due to age is expected but I for one am very hesitant to declare him an average goaltender based on 1 bad season out of 12.

I think the placement of the "1 bad season" is very telling. We just don't agree on this. I think he even started to decline the season before, despite people trying to say it was all the defense. I thought it was both.

I'm actually complimenting him that he's rebounded from midseason. You shouldn't take this as a negative post about Hank. He's been more inconsistent than bad, which is fine at his age. I had actually thought at one point that he was flat out just not good anymore, instead of inconsistent, but I am complimenting him that he's put in performances like the last two against Montreal, and was doing very well prior to his injury at the end of the season.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I couldn't give less of a **** how average (and that's what he was this season, at best) he was if he keeps playing like this in the playoffs.

 

[Siddi]

I think the placement of the "1 bad season" is very telling. We just don't agree on this. I think he even started to decline the season before, despite people trying to say it was all the defense. I thought it was both.

I'm actually complimenting him that he's rebounded from midseason. You shouldn't take this as a negative post about Hank. He's been more inconsistent than bad, which is fine at his age. I had actually thought at one point that he was flat out just not good anymore, instead of inconsistent, but I am complimenting him that he's put in performances like the last two against Montreal, and was doing very well prior to his injury at the end of the season.

Tonight is not the night we should argue over this. Let us just agree to disagree and focus on beating the ****ing Habs

 

[danisonfire]

Henrik Lundqvist has played out of his mind during the first three playoff games. Makes you laugh at some of the disrespect he gets in "Best Goalie" threads.

 

[Inferno]

Henrik Lundqvist has flat out outplayed Carey Price....and he's down 1-2. going into this series how many people would have said that?

Thats how well Julien has these Habs coached..they take away the ice so well.

 

[haohmaru]

And our clueless coach has no answer for it after 5 periods of being out coached.

 

[Luger]

Season over. When game 2 was tied with 17 seconds to go, the Rangers collapsed. That goal will eventually be viewed as the end of the Rangers window.

 

[nevesis]

Season over. When game 2 was tied with 17 seconds to go, the Rangers collapsed. That goal will eventually be viewed as the end of the Rangers window.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Once Hank retires is the end of the window

 

[Zil]

Once Hank retires is the end of the window

Igor has other plans.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Igor has other plans.

We don't know what we have with Igor. But I don't think a goalie is the difference between an open and closed window for a good team. If that's the case for us, it's because the rest of the team sucks.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Igor has other plans.

Unknown NHL commodity yet. Hank is a generational goaletending talent that has and still masks a lot wrong.

We don't know what we have with Igor. But I don't think a goalie is the difference between an open and closed window for a good team. If that's the case for us, it's because the rest of the team sucks.

The rest of the team has been pretty lackluster for a few seasons now

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

We don't know what we have with Igor. But I don't think a goalie is the difference between an open and closed window for a good team. If that's the case for us, it's because the rest of the team sucks.

The way this organization has built around Hank, a good goalie is the difference between an open and closed window.

They're going to have to start building differently, frankly, starting this offseason, with Hank coming off his worst season and getting up there in age, they can't count on him being .920+ guaranteed anymore. Try and build as we're only going to have a league average goalie, that way so if Hank is better than that (or whatever goalie it is in the future post Hank) it will be gravy on top of an already solid team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't think the window exists with Hank or without him, unless we are getting a Hasek-esque performance where he wins us the cup by himself. That rarely happens in the playoffs anymore though from any goalies.

Usually a team with a top 1C and 1D that gets some contributions from their secondary players wins. We still are missing a 1C or any type of impact offensive player.

So I don't really think the window has anything to do with the goalie position. I think thats part of what got us in this whole mess, thinking we needed to build our team around a goalie. Thats not the mold in the NHL. Having Hank has fooled our management into thinking you could build your team from the goalie out. Not Hank's fault, ofc, but its the situation we are in.

And I don't personally expect more than a marginal drop off with our next goalie, maybe not even that. Goalie prospects are volatile at like 17, 18 years old, not 21 and NHL ready. When you prove yourself at literally every level besides the NHL like he has, it just seems a matter of time before he does the same in the NHL.

 

[CHGoalie27]

To say this after what we have just witnessed so far in this series is nothing short of stupid. He is outplaying the so called best goalie in the world and you have him pegged as a average starter?!

I know that you have right to your opinion but this is borderline trolling IMO!

Bump.

I wouldn't take anyone else, especially not anyone else.

 

[Siddi]

I know this series is far from over and that he was insane until Tampa in the 2015 playoffs but is this the best we have ever seen him?

He sure as **** seems to have turned the clock 5 years!

 

[CHGoalie27]

I know this series is far from over and that he was insane until Tampa in the 2015 playoffs but is this the best we have ever seen him?

He sure as **** seems to have turned the clock 5 years!

Tampa 2015...is that when the team was shutout twice in a row at home? He was no different then either.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I know this series is far from over and that he was insane until Tampa in the 2015 playoffs but is this the best we have ever seen him?

He sure as **** seems to have turned the clock 5 years!

He looks great, idk about his best though. All of 2014 he was amazing. Also, 2013 and 2015 vs the Caps he was amazing both of those series.

Even Tampa he wasn't overall bad, just had a couple bad games. Truth is that Hank has been reliably elite in the playoffs, having to steal a bunch of series for us over the years.


Overall, I think it's pretty clear the people putting him out the pasture this season were a little ahead of themselves.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I know this series is far from over and that he was insane until Tampa in the 2015 playoffs but is this the best we have ever seen him?

He sure as **** seems to have turned the clock 5 years!

I hate to be downer about Hank when he's playing like this but he has a knack for having absolutely lights out games or series and then looking mediocre for the next series. I remember how he had back to back shutouts against the Caps and had a nightmare series out of nowhere against Boston. Boston was the better team, but I remember him giving up soft goals galore in that series. So we have to wait and see. He's had one playoff where he didn't have one mediocre series, in 2014. Event then he had a few really bad games, game 6 against Philly and game 5 against Montreal.