It wasn't that long ago when it was usual for defense prospects to spend 3-4 (or more) years in the AHL before cracking an NHL roster. Just because teams in a cap era prefer to get them up sooner doesn't mean the development curve has changed dramatically. Zboril and Lauzon are going to be 2d year pros, Urho, first year in Providence. It shouldn't be surprising to us that they might not be ready yet, and it doesn't make the busts or misses either. We were fortunate with Carlo and McAvoy, but that shouldn't be the standard.
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I guess I wouldn't be either, but I feel like I'd still be in the same situation wondering why we are packing our pressbox with NHL dmen haha.
Would love to see him make a jump too. Gryz has me all kinds of believing in the potential of some of these kids with the way he improved from one season to the next.
But I still feel like regardless we are bloated with having both McQuaid and Miller. Also now adding Moore in when we have mobile offensive dmen already in Krug and Gryz. It's not like we grabbed Moore for his defensive play, so that is why I bring it up.
Two things:
1. The only way the John Moore signing makes sense to me is if the plan is to either trade Krug for a top 6 forward, or make Gryz the #7 and trade prospects for the top 6 forward they need. But they’ve tipped their hand they want that forward (Nash trade, Kovalchuk/Tavares pursuits) and it’s a clear need. So if no other moves are made, I’d say the Moore signing baffles me.
2. To EverettMikes point, I think the Moore signing tells me they aren’t that high on the bevy of LHD in the system. Yes they are still young, but when you draft 3 LD in the top 2 rounds over the last 3 years, it’s reasonable to think 1-2 could be knocking on the door. Having just signed Gryz and with Krug/Chara here, the Moore signing means someone is leaving, OR they don’t love the chances of those prospects earning jobs in the next 1-2 years.
1. The only way the John Moore signing makes sense to me is if the plan is to either trade Krug for a top 6 forward, or make Gryz the #7 and trade prospects for the top 6 forward they need. But they’ve tipped their hand they want that forward (Nash trade, Kovalchuk/Tavares pursuits) and it’s a clear need. So if no other moves are made, I’d say the Moore signing baffles me.
2. To EverettMikes point, I think the Moore signing tells me they aren’t that high on the bevy of LHD in the system. Yes they are still young, but when you draft 3 LD in the top 2 rounds over the last 3 years, it’s reasonable to think 1-2 could be knocking on the door. Having just signed Gryz and with Krug/Chara here, the Moore signing means someone is leaving, OR they don’t love the chances of those prospects earning jobs in the next 1-2 years.
Mainehockey33
Powerplay Specialist
I don’t know why they’d trade Zboril at this point, he’s only going to get better.
The problem is too many NHL D right now, not prospects. Maybe they keep the left side loaded and trade Mcquaid to free up some cap space? Maybe they move Krug for help elsewhere? I don’t know what the plan is but Sweeney isn’t done yet.
The problem is too many NHL D right now, not prospects. Maybe they keep the left side loaded and trade Mcquaid to free up some cap space? Maybe they move Krug for help elsewhere? I don’t know what the plan is but Sweeney isn’t done yet.
I was starting to lean this way too which made me think...why would they not just wait until next year to sign someone? Chara and McQuaid will both fall off the books and they can fill the need and have another year of a read in Prov for some of these kids. Now a reason why I see them not waiting until next year is if they feel like they have their guy and they'd rather have him for a year longer than to miss the opportunity entirely. But it goes back to this player still being John Moore and I really can't see it being that strong of a feeling for the latter.
I mentioned this in another thread, but injuries. Both of them tend to get banged up and need time off. Then your freak things (Krug and Carlo both breaking ankles in that short of a space time???) and it doesn't seem bloated but smart. Better to have and not need, then to need and not have.
Oates2Neely
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Maybe this Moore signing is somewhat tied into L.A.C (life after Chara)? Remove Chara from the equation on that left side and Sweeney had Gryz Krug.... At least Moore is an NHL dman, who can eat minutes. More importantly, a Chara replacement needed soon. Chara ideally plays on the 2nd pairing on a playoff contender
Well I think they just like him or they wouldn’t have gone 5 years. So to some extent I think that is true. But I don’t think Chara comes off the books next year unless they win a Cup, so they still have the glut of LD. Furthermore, isn’t it reasonable to think 1 of the 3 LD kids they drafted in the top 2 rounds since 2015 makes the lineup or did they whiff on all of them? Vaak, Lauzon, Zboril...not one of those guys makes our roster next year??? That’d be pretty sad, no?
No matter how we slice it I don’t see where the Moore signing is logical unless they’ve totally given up on Gryz for some unknown reason, they really don’t like the prospects, or they have another move coming. If none of those are true then I again have no clue what they’re doing.
PlayMakers
Moderator
I think folks focus a little too much on term with these deals. It's as if, because Moore signed a 5 year deal, no rookie can make the team for the next 5 years. If one of the young D really look like they're ready to contribute, they will make room. Even with 8D on the roster, there will be injuries and opportunities. Heck, if they show really well in camp that could be all the opportunity they need. When Blake Wheeler first got here, he had such a strong camp that they stuck a few million dollars in Providence to make room for him on the roster.
LouJersey
Registered User
The John Moore signing I think makes sense after watching two 5'9 guys get physically manhandled in the playoffs. You can't have two left side D at that size anymore. I honestly think they either are happy going in with 8 defenseman, or are expecting calls. I could see a Gryz for young nhl ready right shot RW.
I think they love Vaak, but he was just here in camp, so maybe they thought he'd be ready next year but pushed him back a season after seeing him? Zboril, I don't know, he seemed to improve but he's a year away. Jeremy Lauzon can't seem to stay healthy. Dealt Lindgren last season.
PlayMakers
Moderator
I can't speak for others, but I didn't expect any of those guys to make the team next year. Not sure why that's sad, they weren't top5 picks, and the Bruins had two teenagers in their top4 last year.
Different players develop differently. Johnny Boychuk didn't pop until his late 20's. I don't think that will be the case with those three but I consider "normal" development for players to be 1 full year in the AHL to get your feet wet, a second year in the AHL to dominate and some call-ups/time in the NHL. It's not until that third year of pro hockey that I start to have "expectations" on guys cracking the roster and contributing. You get guys who pop early but that was Marchand's path and he's doing okay. Krejci too. I think the path can be a little different for college players who turn pro when they're older/more physically developed, but to me, that's your "typical" development path from juniors. All three of those defensemen are just entering their second year as pro's so for them to be "on schedule" I would like to see them have dominant seasons this year in Providence, and get a few calls up to Boston.
With the way this team has handled Beleskey, Hayes, and even Backes to a point. The amount of salary doesn't dictate where you play in this roster. Moore might be making 3/4 money, but he can still play bottom pairing if the kids move him down in the coming years. The other two guys aren't making anything significant by NHL standards to force themselves in the lineup either.
I think Oates2Neely is right in thinking that the term on the Moore deal is about Chara being gone next year & having more depth at the position going forward.
I think Depth is really important to a good playoff team. It also puts no pressure to have kids come to camp penciled into a spot.
I think Oates2Neely is right in thinking that the term on the Moore deal is about Chara being gone next year & having more depth at the position going forward.
I think Depth is really important to a good playoff team. It also puts no pressure to have kids come to camp penciled into a spot.
For every Johnny Boychuk, how many defensemen never make a contribution in the NHL and their delayed development schedule is more of a reflection of their ability than anything else.
Boychuk is such a rarity he's probably counter productive to use as an example.
Drift
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- Jan 9, 2012
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Someone mentioned the Bruins being interested in Panarin yesterday (can't find the tweet), that is all I have heard. Sounds far fetched to me.
Bruinfanatic
Registered User
Bearclaw
Registered User
Well, difficult to say because the answer is partly rooted in the theoretical. Sure they both produced 36 goals, but Tavares will arguably be with higher end talent so we don't know what his new ceiling is.
If you look at things from a purely mathematical AND point-in-time perspective, Toronto ends up a net deficit, yeah. So maybe you're right, maybe they didn't get significantly better (or maybe they did, but we need the future to tell us that) - however point remains that the B's management has made themselves vulnerable by publicly declaring a need. Yesterday did not speak to that need. And yes, there's more than one way to skin a cat - maybe it comes from within, sure, but you can only go to the youth well so many times and strike gold.
Drift
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- Jan 9, 2012
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Yes it was Reed
Also heard about the Skinner rumor as far back as the draft.
Its crazy how fast hockey twitter goes almost dark after July 1st.
Bruinfanatic
Registered User
I think it’s pretty obvious Bruins are still after a top six forward,I really don’t think they go into the season just hoping one of their prospects steps up.
CellyHard
Registered User
Really disappointed with this off-season so far. I like Wagner and think Halak can be serviceable. It’s frustrating seeing other teams pass us, allocating money to players who have been notoriously average and still leaving some positions of need open.
Hate to be negative and was hoping for more. Jury is still out, hope these acquisitions can prove me wrong.
Hate to be negative and was hoping for more. Jury is still out, hope these acquisitions can prove me wrong.
World of Wardlow
Unscripted Violence
Only if there is an agreement that he is signed to an extension. I would assume it would cost Krug + Heinen and maybe a draft pick.
RussellmaniaKW
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the fact that they didn't pick up a 2nd line wing or 3rd line C tells me they are really high on at least a few of them (and certainly the ones who played in the NHL last year)
DrJustice
Registered User
Donato especially I think they are really high on going into this season. He's going to have a spot in the top-9 based on skill alone, but whether it'll be in the top-6 will be mostly between him, Bjork and Heinen.
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