Proposal: All Bruins Rumours/Proposals 2020 III

[compan]

What a weird situation. I can’t imagine Peg would have traded Trouba knowing this. Seems like the type of situation the Bruins should avoid.

Yeah Buff has a questionable enough history that I think its best the Bruins avoid. We don't need whatever he would offer that badly.

 

[shoulders7]

Ok, so Heinen stays. Kuhlman needs a spot, you think Senyshyn should be up, where is kase playing exactly? Marchand, debrusk, Bjork, Nordstrom. There’s lw. Pastrnak, Heinen, Kuhlman, wagner. There’s rw. Do you think the team should just stand pat at the deadline then? They can’t keep everybody. Just want to see what you are thinking here, good problem to have but something has to give.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Because a lot of people want to see a trade for the sake of there being a trade. That and the disdain for Heinen has grown to the point where trading him is also a good decision regardless of who’s coming back.

Kase makes sense for Boston, but not at the expense of Heinen, IMO.

this reply is, frankly, insulting. Debate the trade suggestion on its merits if you want, but don't accuse me of having it in for Heinen or suggesting a trade for the sake of it. If you think I proposed a Heinen/Kase trade because I hate Danton Heinen then feel free to quote the litany of posts I've made bashing him (or don't waste your time because they don't exist).

I think a legitimate case can be made for a Heinen/Kase swap as a good bottom 6 hockey trade for two guys who could potentially be better fits elsewhere. Kase has more high end offensive skill, even if it hasn't translated consistently at the NHL level yet. I think that he'd give the Bruins an infusion of skill and goal scoring ability in the bottom 6. He also shoots the puck a lot more than Heinen, something that would be an asset to a team that is often accused of overpassing. He also obviously gives the Bruins another righty in the mix, but the idea isn't purely about that.

 

[sarge88]

Yeah Buff has a questionable enough history that I think its best the Bruins avoid. We don't need whatever he would offer that badly.

I agree, if it’s the damaged, unfocused version of Buff, but if he were focused and engaged, he’d be an absolute monster on line 2.

Admittedly, I have absolutely no idea where he’s at physically or mentally.

I’m just fantasizing about what he could bring, if he’s even 85% of his best.

And to put the cart miles and miles ahead of the horse.....if he is coming back from an ankle injury, wouldn’t offering him the chance to play RW instead of defense on a cup contender be a sweetener?

 

[BruinsNetwork]

this reply is, frankly, insulting. Debate the trade suggestion on its merits if you want, but don't accuse me of having it in for Heinen or suggesting a trade for the sake of it. If you think I proposed a Heinen/Kase trade because I hate Danton Heinen then feel free to quote the litany of posts I've made bashing him (or don't waste your time because they don't exist).

I think a legitimate case can be made for a Heinen/Kase swap as a good bottom 6 hockey trade for two guys who could potentially be better fits elsewhere. Kase has more high end offensive skill, even if it hasn't translated consistently at the NHL level yet. I think that he'd give the Bruins an infusion of skill and goal scoring ability in the bottom 6. He also shoots the puck a lot more than Heinen, something that would be an asset to a team that is often accused of overpassing. He also obviously gives the Bruins another righty in the mix, but the idea isn't purely about that.

This reply is, frankly, emotional. I didn’t accuse you of anything, nor did I quote or respond to your post. If I wanted to accuse you of something, I would have done so.

 

[SPV]

I'm all for Ondrej Kase, especially if we can move Backes in the same move. Retain 2 million and make it Steen & a 2nd round pick for Kase. Anaheim is only paying 2 million cash for Backes next year & with Kase and the 2 million, we're still saving 1.4 in cap space.

All that said, I'd prefer Palmieri.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

If I’m the GM of Anaheim, then I’m not moving Kase for Steen and a third-round pick. That’ll open the door, but not get it done.

Something like Steen, second-round pick and either another idling-prospect or a third-round puck gets it done for me.

Kase is on a good deal, is young and clearly has the ability to score goals, despite being down this year. Why would Anaheim move him for a guy who needs a little time and just a third?

so Kase is worth a 2nd, and 2 additional assets, but Heinen would be giving up too much for him?

Following this logic, you would keep Heinen and give up Steen, a 2nd and a 3rd for Kase to play him....where? Part of the logic of trading Heinen for him is that it's a wash in terms of cap hit and roster spot. I also think with how well this team has drafted in the 2nd round you're severely undervaluing those picks.

 

[BruinsNetwork]

Ok, so Heinen stays. Kuhlman needs a spot, you think Senyshyn should be up, where is kase playing exactly? Marchand, debrusk, Bjork, Nordstrom. There’s lw. Pastrnak, Heinen, Kuhlman, wagner. There’s rw. Do you think the team should just stand pat at the deadline then? They can’t keep everybody. Just looking for your opinion, you have a better read on things than I do.

You’re right, they can’t keep everybody, but they shouldn’t trade players for the sake of trading players. Heinen is a nice player to have and makes this team better.

It isn’t up to me, but if the team acquired another winger I’d sit Wagner and play Kuhlman at 4RW. He’s not only better, but it would allow him to play in that event.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

This reply is, frankly, emotional. I didn’t accuse you of anything, nor did I quote or respond to your post. If I wanted to accuse you of something, I would have done so.

I am the one that suggested Heinen for Kase. You were literally replying to a post quoting my proposal and said:

Because a lot of people want to see a trade for the sake of there being a trade. That and the disdain for Heinen has grown to the point where trading him is also a good decision regardless of who’s coming back.

Kase makes sense for Boston, but not at the expense of Heinen, IMO.

Sounds an awful lot like you're lumping me in with that "a lot of people" comment given that I was the one advocating for said trade and you were replying to a question directed at me.

 

[shoulders7]

You’re right, they can’t keep everybody, but they shouldn’t trade players for the sake of trading players. Heinen is a nice player to have and makes this team better.

It isn’t up to me, but if the team acquired another winger I’d sit Wagner and play Kuhlman at 4RW. He’s not only better, but it would allow him to play in that event.

Agreed, no need to make a trade just for the sake of doing so. Just seems like they need an upgrade in the forward group.
I think sitting wagner for Kuhlman would be good as well, just don’t see them doing it. Either way, going to be an interesting couple of weeks.

 

[JCRO]

What a weird situation. I can’t imagine Peg would have traded Trouba knowing this. Seems like the type of situation the Bruins should avoid.

Agree.

And yeah- It was quite a log jam there for a bit with Buff/Trouba/Myers all fighting for minutes and staying on their dominant side.

And now look.... All three of them are gone.

 

[TCB]

so Kase is worth a 2nd, and 2 additional assets, but Heinen would be giving up too much for him?

Following this logic, you would keep Heinen and give up Steen, a 2nd and a 3rd for Kase to play him....where? Part of the logic of trading Heinen for him is that it's a wash in terms of cap hit and roster spot. I also think with how well this team has drafted in the 2nd round you're severely undervaluing those picks.

This years draft is suppose to be a real deep draft, so I wouldn't want to move any of the top two picks neither, but Kase has high end skill and his upside is much greater than Heinens. The numbers aren't there, but the talent certainly is and I think he could be the answer to the Bruins 2nd line scoring woes.

I would deal Heinen in a heartbeat for him, but Im with you on not throwing in a second but Heinen and a conditional pick I do without hesitation.

 

[maxl7]

Winnipeg traded Trouba because they knew he wasn't going to re-sign with them. They let Myers walk in FA because he's awful. The Byfuglien situation is a tough break for them, though.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

It's a mutual termination. He's agreeing to forgo the remaining money on his contract.

Backes doesn't want to give up the money, so he wouldn't agree to terminate.

but it has also been reported that Backes intends to play in the NHL again, and that's part of why he's not dressing for Providence.

At this point I kind of wish the Bruins would play a little hardball and tell him if he wants to play in the NHL this season then his best bet is to terminate his deal and sign a "show me" deal elsewhere, because a trade isn't likely and he's not getting called up again.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

This years draft is suppose to be a real deep draft, so I wouldn't want to move any of the top two picks neither, but Kase has high end skill and his upside is much greater than Heinens. The numbers aren't there, but the talent certainly is and I think he could be the answer to the Bruins 2nd line scoring woes.

I would deal Heinen in a heartbeat for him, but Im with you on not throwing in a second but Heinen and a conditional pick I do without hesitation.

the big thing for me is that Kase can rip the puck and shoots a lot more often than Heinen. Kase had 11 goals in 30 games last year. Heinen had the same number in 77 games. Kase had almost as many shots in those 30 games (94) as Heinen did in his 77 games (114). If you watch highlights of his goals, he also goes to the top of the crease willingly, as a lot of his goals are from that area. I like the idea of adding another guy who shoots first. This team has too many guys who make one too many passes.

 

[TCB]

the big thing for me is that Kase can rip the puck and shoots a lot more often than Heinen. Kase had 11 goals in 30 games last year. Heinen had the same number in 77 games. Kase had almost as many shots in those 30 games (94) as Heinen did in his 77 games (114). If you watch highlights of his goals, he also goes to the top of the crease willingly, as a lot of his goals are from that area. I like the idea of adding another guy who shoots first. This team has too many guys who make one too many passes.

Kase also has very good one on one skills. Too me he's an ideal buy low candidate.

 

[BruinsNetwork]

so Kase is worth a 2nd, and 2 additional assets, but Heinen would be giving up too much for him?

Following this logic, you would keep Heinen and give up Steen, a 2nd and a 3rd for Kase to play him....where? Part of the logic of trading Heinen for him is that it's a wash in terms of cap hit and roster spot. I also think with how well this team has drafted in the 2nd round you're severely undervaluing those picks.

Did I say that giving up Heinen would be “too much” for Kase? Nope, I didn’t. I also never even said if I would make these deals or not. The value is probably there, but I just don’t think it makes sense from Boston’s standpoint. Why would they move a player who’s a high-end defensive guy, can make plays and is on a good contract, for a guy who doesn’t replace the player going out? Kase is good, but he’s not a similar player to Heinen.

Heinen is clearly best suited at LW and since Kase is right-shot, you have my answer on where he’d play— right-wing. Preferably next to Krejci, otherwise I still don’t see the reason to acquire him? Kuhlman has shown more than enough skill to be a third-line player, as did Senyshyn. Why pay assets for Kase if not to be 2RW? Kuhlman is a better player than Wagner, IMO. If it were up to me and Kase were acquired, I’d have Kuhlman playing in place of Wagner anyways, but it isn’t up to me.

I’m not undervaluing the picks, I’m just trying to offer a fair proposal for both sides and I don’t think what LeBrun offered or anyone else agreeing with him is enough. Kase is a young, controlled right-shot who can score at a 20G+ pace and put the puck in the net. They don’t have to move him and he isn’t unrestricted. That type of player will cost you.

Is a third-round pick and a prospect who’s had one very good season to date enough to move the needle? I don’t think so. I like Steen and think he’s got NHL potential for the middle-six, but he’s been struggling to adjust this season and clearly needs more time. I think something like Steen, a second-round pick and maybe a third-rounder or something else would be more fair.

As far as the value thing goes for Boston’s R2 success, you’re right, they draft well in R2. I don’t see how that’s relevant to this scenario, though? I didn’t say otherwise.

I said that Kase is worth more than a third-round pick in that package. Do you think Anaheim cares that Boston drafts well in the second-round? No, they don’t, because that’s circumstantial.

Anyways, I’m not out to get you and frankly haven’t taken exception to anything you’ve posted. I didn’t even see the post that UncleRico quoted was yours until now because I only cared about his— it’s what I was answering.

 

[22Brad Park]

but it has also been reported that Backes intends to play in the NHL again, and that's part of why he's not dressing for Providence.

At this point I kind of wish the Bruins would play a little hardball and tell him if he wants to play in the NHL this season then his best bet is to terminate his deal and sign a "show me" deal elsewhere, because a trade isn't likely and he's not getting called up again.

More likely Bruins eat some salary in any deal for him.Cannot see him giving up guarenteed cash for a maybe he gets a show me deal elsewhere.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Ok, so Heinen stays. Kuhlman needs a spot, you think Senyshyn should be up, where is kase playing exactly? Marchand, debrusk, Bjork, Nordstrom. There’s lw. Pastrnak, Heinen, Kuhlman, wagner. There’s rw. Do you think the team should just stand pat at the deadline then? They can’t keep everybody. Just looking for your opinion, you have a better read on things than I do.

it really is a problem fitting guys into this lineup... i see

marchand,Bergeron,pastrnak,and coyle… 4 total no brainers for various reasons
krejci is signed and productive and probably not easy to trade... seems to make 5 rock solid guys

then debrusk wont be going anywhere unless his contract becomes a total disaster

jumping down to the bottom line we got kuraly/wagner who have been called the best 4th line in nhl when things are going well... so how much sense does it make moving them? we are up to 8 of 12 starting jobs all filled

Heinen will play if hes here... hes good... but is he right? we could make a case that he could be moved I suppose...

Nordstrom is good enough to play too... but he is actually a pending ufa. it becomes easy to start building a case it wouldnt make much sense to bring him back. he could go now since we got replacements

Lindholm is signed next year... and it makes sense to have a guy like this in the pressbox for flexibility... wont count him in the starting 12 but hes around...

so if Heinen/Nordstrom around around we got 10 of 12 spots filled... and we havent even gotten to the 'kids' yet

Bjork/blidh dont have waiver options... kuhlman is playing some strong hockey... senshyn's waiver options expire at the end of this season... federic has shown a lot of positives that suggest he could be a huge asset for our bottom 6

2 open jobs and 5 kids we can make a case deserve a chance...

now personally... I would move norstrom which does open a spot for blidh/federic to potentially join the team... takes away some of the preasure

and... id definitely pursue talks about flipping Heinen and his caphit for a right shot scorer who is making around the same caphit...

but at some point... people who are discussing bringing in 2-3 guys and not sending any away... there is a numbers problem

after the deadline we can load up with depth people when the roster rules change... but if we are trying to talk trade right now we need to keep in mind how to manage the roster

the smart move... is to not do any panicking right now. if we did decide to make a move for a rw now, we really should be moving Heinen. Bjork's salary/caphit makes more sense on the 3rd line than heinens cap hit does.

not saying Heinen sucks... just saying that we got lots of guys that can slot in on the 3rd line and most make around 1/3 the cap hit that Heinen does

so... if im king of the world... im probably shopping Nordstrom now... im trying to get blidh/Bjork/senshyn/and maybe federic some game action... and im not really too panicked

we are second overall... we went to the finals last year... its not a situation where anyone needs to panic

 

[Jim]

I agree, if it’s the damaged, unfocused version of Buff, but if he were focused and engaged, he’d be an absolute monster on line 2.

Admittedly, I have absolutely no idea where he’s at physically or mentally.

I’m just fantasizing about what he could bring, if he’s even 85% of his best.

And to put the cart miles and miles ahead of the horse.....if he is coming back from an ankle injury, wouldn’t offering him the chance to play RW instead of defense on a cup contender be a sweetener?

All depends on the if he is fit to play and the money he is looking for in my opinion. Buff isn’t going to be a Kovalchuk situation. He isn’t signing for 1 - 2 years at $700k, so there is risk involved.

That said, an even somewhat motivated Byfuglien is an upgrade and an impact player for the Bruins. Big body that we need with proven talent. He has the ability to effectively play swing, which is an outstanding asset for any team.

A clean bill of health and a $4/season 2-year contract, pro-rated....I’d take a chance and make room for him.

 

[yazmybaby]

this reply is, frankly, insulting. Debate the trade suggestion on its merits if you want, but don't accuse me of having it in for Heinen or suggesting a trade for the sake of it. If you think I proposed a Heinen/Kase trade because I hate Danton Heinen then feel free to quote the litany of posts I've made bashing him (or don't waste your time because they don't exist).

I think a legitimate case can be made for a Heinen/Kase swap as a good bottom 6 hockey trade for two guys who could potentially be better fits elsewhere. Kase has more high end offensive skill, even if it hasn't translated consistently at the NHL level yet. I think that he'd give the Bruins an infusion of skill and goal scoring ability in the bottom 6. He also shoots the puck a lot more than Heinen, something that would be an asset to a team that is often accused of overpassing. He also obviously gives the Bruins another righty in the mix, but the idea isn't purely about that.

I agree with you. This would be a good trade for both teams and both players can do with a change of scenery.

 

[BBB24]

but it has also been reported that Backes intends to play in the NHL again, and that's part of why he's not dressing for Providence.

At this point I kind of wish the Bruins would play a little hardball and tell him if he wants to play in the NHL this season then his best bet is to terminate his deal and sign a "show me" deal elsewhere, because a trade isn't likely and he's not getting called up again.

I believe you see the Bs playing hardball with Backes if they don’t get him moved on or before the trade deadline. I think they are comfortable with the situation as it stands at the moment and they are coming across as professional and sympathetic, both good points to have. Come the deadline date and they have no deal in place he will be in Providence or suspended.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Did I say that giving up Heinen would be “too much” for Kase? Nope, I didn’t.

huh? you said this:

Kase makes sense for Boston, but not at the expense of Heinen, IMO.

how is that semantically different from how I paraphrased you?

As for the rest, I've already said my piece about why I think a Kase/Heinen trade makes sense, but I'll sum it up one last time: Kase attacks the net and shoots more. He also has more natural offensive gifts including a really good shot and skating. You could consider him a bit of a project because he still hasn't quite put it all together, but he has shown flashes of being a much better offensive player than Heinen. As for Heinen, I think he is what he is. He doesn't have impressive physical gifts and relies on his hockey IQ. I think his offensive upside is limited by his lack of speed & mediocre shot. He's also another pass first guy on a team with too many pass first guys. I respect his defensive game a lot, but I think it's overblown. He doesn't play in key defensive situations and if he did regularly his defensive metrics would probably take a dip. He's the definition of a safe 3rd line guy, but I think his skillset is redundant on this team, including his handedness and natural position. Kase is more of a gamble but with the higher risk comes higher potential reward. Kase would simply replace Heinen in the lineup on the 3rd line and I think he'd immediately be a better fit. He's not the solution for the 2nd line right now and that's not at all what I'm proposing. The offensive numbers and money right now are a wash, part of why I even considered the deal in the first place.

As for whether you were "attacking me" with your initial reply to UncleRico, either way it comes off as arrogance when you shit on a trade proposal and write it off as people wanting a trade for the sake of a trade or having it out for a certain player without even taking the time to read the original proposal or see who wrote it. So whether or not you knew where the conversation started is irrelevant. I've given my reasoning for the idea and spent way too much time on this as it is. Maybe I'm wrong and it's a bad idea, but I'm not some 'don the godfather' type who sits here all day and posts every thought that pops into his head so all I ask for is a reasonable response.

 

[yazmybaby]

Here is another trade offer to think about.
We give the Sharks Backes, Clifton and Heinen for Burns.
Sharks eat 25% of Burns contract this year and next year, that makes the Backes money a wash.
Remaining years thereafter on his contract Sharks eat 50%.
We get Burns for the rest of this year and next year.
If his play declines, we leave him exposed in the Seattle draft.
This trade then allows us to move Gryz along with someone else to improve at RW.

 

[UncleRico]

because some guys don't stop developing at 23 and the Bruins have too many LWs

Heinen is the same age as kase and heinen has been playing his off wing the majority of his career and has put up the same production as kase at his normal position.

Heinen is 126 days older. I’m all for upgrading at positions but Kase for heinen is a backwards move.