Player Discussion Alexander Ovechkin (Vol. 3)

[filinski77]

REAL goals is the only story that ultimately matters. I appreciate the additional data, but don’t value it much.

I agree that raw goals are what matters in a game to game scenario, but when comparing players from vastly different era's, some type of adjusting needs to be done.

If you don't adjust, then you may as well say that from a goal production standpoint, these below 5 seasons are better than anything Ovechkin has done (not including the 65 goal year). The reality is that 57 goals in 1983 <<< 56 goals in 2009.

Player	Year	Goals
Yzerman	1990	62
Maruk	1982	60
Shutt	1977	60
Kerr	1986	60
Goulet	1983	57

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The whole point is that Ovechkin's 734 is already more impressive than Wayne's 894. The reason for this is due to the adjustments that would be made to make it a more fair comparison.

 

[kicksavedave]

Wayne Gretzky is the most impressive hockey player ever, in any era. But I would personally rank Ovi 2nd overall, in any era, Bobby Orr* 3rd. And I agree if you changed their careers to be in different era's their respective totals would be different but its not whats relevant to me. When compared to their peers in their own era's, Gretzky dominated his peers like no one else except for Ovi who also dominates his peers, over an entire career, not just a few years.


* and I did see Orr play before his injuries slowed him down.

 

[filinski77]

Wayne Gretzky is the most impressive hockey player ever, in any era. But I would personally rank Ovi 2nd overall, in any era, Bobby Orr* 3rd. And I agree if you changed their careers to be in different era's their respective totals would be different but its not whats relevant to me. When compared to their peers in their own era's, Gretzky dominated his peers like no one else except for Ovi who also dominates his peers, over an entire career, not just a few years.


* and I did see Orr play before his injuries slowed him down.

Completely agree that Wayne is the most impressive overall. Goalscoring only though, Ovi is #1. I don't at all agree with Ovi being #2 all-time overall (the best he'll ever be able to get to is #5 imo).

 

[kicksavedave]

Completely agree that Wayne is the most impressive overall. Goalscoring only though, Ovi is #1. I don't at all agree with Ovi being #2 all-time overall (the best he'll ever be able to get to is #5 imo).

Is your top 4 above Ovi 99, Howe, Orr, Mario?

 

[filinski77]

Is your top 4 above Ovi 99, Howe, Orr, Mario?

Yup, my personal order would be Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe.

5th spot is Ovi's if he breaks the goal record or wins a 10th rocket. The 5th spot is very competitive, and doing either of those two would be enough to give him the edge imo.

 

[txpd]

Wayne Gretzky is the most impressive hockey player ever, in any era. But I would personally rank Ovi 2nd overall, in any era, Bobby Orr* 3rd. And I agree if you changed their careers to be in different era's their respective totals would be different but its not whats relevant to me. When compared to their peers in their own era's, Gretzky dominated his peers like no one else except for Ovi who also dominates his peers, over an entire career, not just a few years.


* and I did see Orr play before his injuries slowed him down.

In today's NHL Bobby Orr would be totally off the hook.

 

[txpd]

Is your top 4 above Ovi 99, Howe, Orr, Mario?

I have a hard time listing any player in the 6 team league/NA/Canadians only era that high. Just like I struggle with pre Jackie Robinson players in MLB.

Mario Lemieux is more like Mickey Mantle or Gale Sayers. Great player that didnt reach his potential because of health, but never the less he didnt reach his potential. This is the same argument about Crosby and Ovechkin. They have the same number of points right now but Crosby has missed many games with injuries. Those lost games work against Crosby. Not for him. Ov's durability works for him. Not against him.

 

[BallardEra]

Ovechkin opens up about the chase for Gretzky's goal record

 

[kicksavedave]

Ovechkin opens up about the chase for Gretzky's goal record

"We're sorry, this content is only available for viewing in Canada. 72"

Dafuq?

 

[TJHKY]

 

[Varan]

Some good reads to go back on:

Ovechkin after 30, what can he do?

Will Ovechkin dethrone Lucky Luc as the highest-scoring left winger in NHL history.

Ovechkin is now halfway to Gretzky!

Is Laine going to surpass Ovechkin?

Does Ovechkin still have a chance at being the GOAT goalscorer?

Hey! That's my thread! Glad it is famous

 

[BallardEra]

Some stats for everyone:

Ovie had 475 career goals in 760 games after his age 29 season for a .625 goals per game rate. (51.25 goals over 82 game season)

From his age 30 season until today he has 264 goals in 445 games for a .593 goals per game rate. (48.65 goals over 82 game season)

 

[Calicaps]

Some stats for everyone:

Ovie had 475 career goals in 760 games after his age 29 season for a .625 goals per game rate. (51.25 goals over 82 game season)

From his age 30 season until today he has 264 goals in 445 games for a .593 goals per game rate. (48.65 goals over 82 game season)

Clearly in decline.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[TJHKY]

 

[YippieKaey]

That´s a very cool stat actually. He´s been the best Capital for 7 years and he´s still the best Capital. Those things don´t happen too often. Granted, the Caps aren´t the Oilers or anything but still a lot of good players have been here.

 

[Calicaps]

That´s a very cool stat actually. He´s been the best Capital for 7 years and he´s still the best Capital. Those things don´t happen too often. Granted, the Caps aren´t the Oilers or anything but still a lot of good players have been here.

He’s been the best Capital a lot longer than 7 years. And he will very likely be the best Capital forever.

 

[tycoonheart]

I don't think we will ever see a talent like him in DC ever again. Dude is one of a kind. Not just a hall of famer, but he will be known as the best in the game for years to come.

 

[maacoshark]

Wayne Gretzky is the most impressive hockey player ever, in any era. But I would personally rank Ovi 2nd overall, in any era, Bobby Orr* 3rd. And I agree if you changed their careers to be in different era's their respective totals would be different but its not whats relevant to me. When compared to their peers in their own era's, Gretzky dominated his peers like no one else except for Ovi who also dominates his peers, over an entire career, not just a few years.


* and I did see Orr play before his injuries slowed him down.

Why do you think Gretzky was the most impressive player ever?
He had great vision and patience with the puck. Other than that I didn't like the rest of his game at all.
You should also remember that he played at a time when teams weren't defensively responsible. That was before teams really began using a trapping system. Now every team plays some kind of trap system in the neutral zone.
And goaltending was terrible at that time. Remember our goalie tandem of Pat Riggen and Al Jensen winning the William Jennings trophy. Both of those goalies were bad.

 

[Calicaps]

I don't think we will ever see a talent like him in DC ever again. Dude is one of a kind. Not just a hall of famer, but he will be known as the best in the game for years to come.

I recently stumbled upon an old interview with Orpik that I'd somehow missed. It was from the Cup run and was about how he was always asked to compare Sid and Ovie and how he thought the whole juxtaposition was stupid and forced. But when pressed he said precisely this. That Ovie is unique. He said that there are other players like Sid (he didn't say "as good" just "similar to") but that there's no one like Ovie. He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent, and we are so fortunate that he has been our captain.

 

[Calicaps]

Why do you think Gretzky was the most impressive player ever?
He had great vision and patience with the puck. Other than that I didn't like the rest of his game at all.
You should also remember that he played at a time when teams weren't defensively responsible. That was before teams really began using a trapping system. Now every team plays some kind of trap system in the neutral zone.
And goaltending was terrible at that time. Remember our goalie tandem of Pat Riggen and Al Jensen winning the William Jennings trophy. Both of those goalies were bad.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

All an athlete can do is be measured against his peers…..and Gretzky lapped his (and everyone else).

 

[Team SWOLEvechkin]

Is this Ovie's Final Form?!

- He's on an 82-goal pace for the year (totally sustainable /s)
- Opponents are respecting his shot so he can set up the backdoor slap-pass
- He's making quicker decisions and playing the puck harder on the PP when he's out at the point. Much better than years past when he would just dump it to the corner predictably if his shooting lane was blocked and it would get cleared.
- He is playing arguably the best defense of his career
- He seems to really be embracing fatherhood, and seems quite loose and happy.
- He gave us a hometown deal to finish out his career as the best Capital and the captain of a Stanley Cup winning team
- His passing and vision have improved

TL;DR Can OV really be playing any better?

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I think Ovechkin really missed having fans and feeds off them. Didn’t he lead the league in goals last time we had fans

 

[BallardEra]

Interesting topic and article from 2015.

That one guy on last page predicting Ovechkin will become a "compiler" and citing 50 in 50 as a reason to hate :

Statistical model predicts Ovechkin could hit 836 by age 39.