Rumor: Alex Pietrangelo discussion #2- Will it happen?

[Big Muddy]

You understand that our three “kids” tried to break the bank coming out of ELC’s right? They deserve the flak, they’ve proven nothing in order to earn 29.4M between them.

The typical formula was a “Show Me” deal coming off of an ELC, followed by the big 3rd contract. These kids cut out the show-me part and went straight for the money. And even though they weren’t the only ones to do it league wide, kids like Rantanen took a more reasonable 9.5M, while Mackinnon came out and publicly stated that when his time comes to re-sign he will be cutting a team friendly deal so the Av’s can stay competitive.

Tavares signed for market value after already playing through a show-me contract and giving a team friendly deal to the Isles ... he’s earned his money.

JT was well within his rights to negotiate for any amount he wanted.
However, and I say however, did you want the money or did you want to win. Stamkos just signed the year before at 8.
Knowing that Matthews/Marner/Nylander were all next contract ready, he did have the ability to accept a less than double digit salary, say at 9.1 to foster and promote the ability to surround a team with quality and keep the rest.

I mean certainly
Matthews around 10
JT at 9.1
Marner at Aho comparable 8.5
Nylander at 7

Is a 34.6 total with a 6 + million cap savings. Big difference. But everyone wanted everything they could get, take up half the cap, currently questioning them as a sum of the parts core, lack of success to date and missing quite a bit in terms of depth and D with a UFA goalie. So you want to get paid. You got paid. All of these guys with just a little concession in it together is a bigger savings for team.

I agree that is was certainly within JT's rights to get paid what he wanted. However, everything has an impact. I'm not sure how they didn't figure that JT's $11 m signing wouldn't influence the mindset of our big three in their contract negotiations. That's just human nature at work despite what anybody says and rationalizations they come up with.

Toronto has always tried to buy a team versus build it. The patience, there will be pain, and it will take time mantras were pushed to the wayside fairly quickly. It didn't take too long before we knew it was any different this time either.

 

[seanlinden]

Throwing a trade idea out there... let the Blues keep AP... pursue Parayko (who IMO is a better fit with this team and our window to compete)....

To St. Louis:
Andreas Johnsson, Travis Dermott, Timothy Liljegren, Toronto's 2nd Rounder, Some other team's 2nd Rounder

Travis Dermott signs a 3 year deal at $2m.

To Toronto:
Colton Parayko

To Some Other Team:
Carl Gunnarsson


Blues do a bit of a "reset" -- acquiring 2 players (aged 25 and 23) that are locked up to very reasonable medium-term deals; plus a very high potential right shot Dman who would theoretically slot in as a #7 this year. Gives them a group on the blueline of Dunn-AP, Scandella-Faulk, Dermott-Bortuzzo, Liljegren.

They find a taker for Steen, and that opens the cap space to sign AP.

 

[hyduK]

You understand that our three “kids” tried to break the bank coming out of ELC’s right? They deserve the flak, they’ve proven nothing in order to earn 29.4M between them.

The typical formula was a “Show Me” deal coming off of an ELC, followed by the big 3rd contract. These kids cut out the show-me part and went straight for the money. And even though they weren’t the only ones to do it league wide, kids like Rantanen took a more reasonable 9.5M, while Mackinnon came out and publicly stated that when his time comes to re-sign he will be cutting a team friendly deal so the Av’s can stay competitive.

Tavares signed for market value after already playing through a show-me contract and giving a team friendly deal to the Isles ... he’s earned his money.

I guess I don’t get this logic. Yeah, JT played through the “show me” deal already...but he didn’t show anyone anything during that deal. Certainly nothing that Matthews didn’t show during his ELC (good regular season statistics followed by lack of playoff success, I mean Tavares missed the playoffs on the last couple years of his “show me deal”). I get it’s a team game, but the Isles have been doing just fine since he left, having better playoff results than any season he was with them.

Tavares being overpaid was the first domino. He got paid like he was just coming off a Conn Smythe season.

 

[hotpaws]

Throwing a trade idea out there... let the Blues keep AP... pursue Parayko (who IMO is a better fit with this team and our window to compete)....

To St. Louis:
Andreas Johnsson, Travis Dermott, Timothy Liljegren, Toronto's 2nd Rounder, Some other team's 2nd Rounder

Travis Dermott signs a 3 year deal at $2m.

To Toronto:
Colton Parayko

To Some Other Team:
Carl Gunnarsson


Blues do a bit of a "reset" -- acquiring 2 players (aged 25 and 23) that are locked up to very reasonable medium-term deals; plus a very high potential right shot Dman who would theoretically slot in as a #7 this year. Gives them a group on the blueline of Dunn-AP, Scandella-Faulk, Dermott-Bortuzzo, Liljegren.

They find a taker for Steen, and that opens the cap space to sign AP.

so a pkg of nickel and dimes for your Loonie trade , where have i seen that before , lol

 

[Trapper]

I agree that is was certainly within JT's rights to get paid what he wanted. However, everything has an impact. I'm not sure how they didn't figure that JT's $11 m signing wouldn't influence the mindset of our big three in their contract negotiations. That's just human nature at work despite what anybody says and rationalizations they come up with.

Toronto has always tried to buy a team versus build it. The patience, there will be pain, and it will take time mantras were pushed to the wayside fairly quickly. It didn't take too long before we knew it was any different this time either.

The moment they wanted all they could get, my patience went with it.

Again, as athletes I know the time to earn is short but so is the time to win. Some never do. Tavares was on a team that only won a round once in his Islanders career. 9 years, 1 1st round win.

Solidarity in salaries for the overall welfare of the team would have endeared this core to more people in the end despite even the lack of success.

Stamkos took 8 and Point bridges at 6. Don’t think that isn’t huge whatever you tell yourself.

Another year of failure and the heat on these guys (if they think it’s hot now) is going to go off the charts.

 

[Bluelines]

Now you can. Up until yesterday you couldn't.

It's kinda amazing how I just pulled a prediction out of the ether before anyone else did. I wonder how such a random prediction is going to come true. Of all the predictions I could make, that specific one comes true 3 days later... huh.. odd..

I'm feeling lucky ... another random prediction ... the Leafs have more interest in Brodie than they do Pietro.

 

[kb]

As evidenced by the Evan Rodrigues negotiations, lol.

What about them?

 

[Stephen]

Throwing a trade idea out there... let the Blues keep AP... pursue Parayko (who IMO is a better fit with this team and our window to compete)....

To St. Louis:
Andreas Johnsson, Travis Dermott, Timothy Liljegren, Toronto's 2nd Rounder, Some other team's 2nd Rounder

Travis Dermott signs a 3 year deal at $2m.

To Toronto:
Colton Parayko

To Some Other Team:
Carl Gunnarsson


Blues do a bit of a "reset" -- acquiring 2 players (aged 25 and 23) that are locked up to very reasonable medium-term deals; plus a very high potential right shot Dman who would theoretically slot in as a #7 this year. Gives them a group on the blueline of Dunn-AP, Scandella-Faulk, Dermott-Bortuzzo, Liljegren.

They find a taker for Steen, and that opens the cap space to sign AP.

If we ever made this Pietrangelo thing work, it would be premised on only spending money on him and then trading guys like Dermott, Johnsson and company elsewhere to make cap room, would bring back an additional return, that could help the team address other needs. We would be killing two birds with one stone.

The scenario you described is like killing one bird with one stone, and also based on the Blues choosing Petro over Parakyo, which doesn’t appear to be their preference. And we get the worse defenseman in the end.

Like I said, Pietrangelo is the best option for us.

 

[Stephen]

What about them?

If Dubas spends any more than $700-900K on a Rodrigues pet project - which is already a sign that he isn’t ready to make a Brisebois style edit to his skill team - it kind of raises some alarms about how he’s spending what little cap space he has to work with.

 

[kb]

If Dubas spends any more than $700-900K on a Rodrigues pet project - which is already a sign that he isn’t ready to make a Brisebois style edit to his skill team - it kind of raises some alarms about how he’s spending what little cap space he has to work with.

But I don't understand why a strawman type argument is required. If Dubas was willing to give him anything rich or secure, he'd be signed now. So I am missing the point of this. Rodrigues knows if he wants to play here, he will have to do it on the Leafs terms, not his....or he will be looking for a job come UFA. These are the players you squeeze hard.

 

[Trapper]

It's kinda amazing how I just pulled a prediction out of the ether before anyone else did. I wonder how such a random prediction is going to come true. Of all the predictions I could make, that specific one comes true 3 days later... huh.. odd..

I'm feeling lucky ... another random prediction ... the Leafs have more interest in Brodie than they do Pietro.

Going back to the Kadri trade, I think we all knew that Brodie was high on his radar.
If we do, I just hope Brodie wasn't more a product of team like Barrie. Good on one team, not so good on a team that has certain deficiencies.
Hard to say until that happens. But I wouldn't be shocked in the least if we sign him.

 

[kb]

Going back to the Kadri trade, I think we all knew that Brodie was high on his radar.
If we do, I just hope Brodie wasn't more a product of team like Barrie. Good on one team, not so good on a team that has certain deficiencies.
Hard to say until that happens. But I wouldn't be shocked in the least if we sign him.

I do not want him. Giordano has made his career for him.

 

[Big Muddy]

Throwing a trade idea out there... let the Blues keep AP... pursue Parayko (who IMO is a better fit with this team and our window to compete)....

To St. Louis:
Andreas Johnsson, Travis Dermott, Timothy Liljegren, Toronto's 2nd Rounder, Some other team's 2nd Rounder

Travis Dermott signs a 3 year deal at $2m.

To Toronto:
Colton Parayko

To Some Other Team:
Carl Gunnarsson


Blues do a bit of a "reset" -- acquiring 2 players (aged 25 and 23) that are locked up to very reasonable medium-term deals; plus a very high potential right shot Dman who would theoretically slot in as a #7 this year. Gives them a group on the blueline of Dunn-AP, Scandella-Faulk, Dermott-Bortuzzo, Liljegren.

They find a taker for Steen, and that opens the cap space to sign AP.

so a pkg of nickel and dimes for your Loonie trade , where have i seen that before , lol

That's a good deal for us, but its a quantity versus quality type deal for the Blues. There isn't that one significant piece in what we are offering that's commensurate for a defender of the ilk of Parayko. Not sure how motivated Blues would be and would wonder if they wouldn't get better offers.

 

[Trapper]

I do not want him. Giordano has made his career for him.

We will have to wait and see.
Dubas going after Brodie is much more feasible for him than going after AP.

 

[Stephen]

But I don't understand why a strawman type argument is required. If Dubas was willing to give him anything rich or secure, he'd be signed now. So I am missing the point of this. Rodrigues knows if he wants to play here, he will have to do it on the Leafs terms, not his....or he will be looking for a job come UFA. These are the players you squeeze hard.

Well, it’s hyperbole and ultimately will be a low impact move on the ice but possibly an inefficient use of cap however little they spend on him. Big picture, the Leafs choosing to extend Rodrigues doesn’t feel like a good example of “lessons learned” in terms of following the Tampa road map.

 

[kb]

We will have to wait and see.
Dubas going after Brodie is much more feasible for him than going after AP.

One iron clad rule of signing defenders.....do not sign the passenger of any pairing. I don't think Brodie has any desire to come here as he added Toronto to his no trade list after Kadri squelched the deal using his NTC.

 

[kb]

Well, it’s hyperbole and ultimately will be a low impact move on the ice but possibly an inefficient use of cap however little they spend on him. Big picture, the Leafs choosing to extend Rodrigues doesn’t feel like a good example of “lessons learned” in terms of following the Tampa road map.

Well, there is no issue with having him as a 13th forward. Not sure why this would be an inefficient signing, he could play anywhere in the bottom 6 in a pinch.

 

[Trapper]

Well, there is no issue with having him as a 13th forward. Not sure why this would be an inefficient signing, he could play anywhere in the bottom 6 in a pinch.

Again we will have to see. We are just speculating at present. Even then I'd have to judge it on what I see when they play.
It's not high on my list either.
There could even be another option (in terms of trade) in the works. Neither AP or Brodie.

 

[Cams]

Going back to the Kadri trade, I think we all knew that Brodie was high on his radar.
If we do, I just hope Brodie wasn't more a product of team like Barrie. Good on one team, not so good on a team that has certain deficiencies.
Hard to say until that happens. But I wouldn't be shocked in the least if we sign him.

That's a risk you have to take sometimes, and hope it works out. Barrie didn't gel with Babcock, and really had a disappointing season. Nobody could have predicted it would that bad. It made me miss Gardiner, and I am not a fan of his gaffs at all.

I'm fine with the team going after 2 less FA D (or maybe a trade(s)), like adding a Tanev and Gudas for the some price as 1 AP. These are just examples. You don't always have to swing for the homerun, yet I know the opportunity is there.

Plus, it's not just a Leafs thing - every time will land a coveted player that does not work out at all, and hindsight being 20/20, it looks like a terrible deal. Remember.......and I know this is hard for some posters on here, it's not just the GM making the deal/negotiation/etc. going on their own, doing as they please. That is why it's called a game or a sport - you win some, you lose some.

 

[kb]

Again we will have to see. We are just speculating at present. Even then I'd have to judge it on what I see when they play.
It's not high on my list either.
There could even be another option (in terms of trade) in the works. Neither AP or Brodie.

Sign me up for Savard if that is the case.

 

[Stephen]

Well, there is no issue with having him as a 13th forward. Not sure why this would be an inefficient signing, he could play anywhere in the bottom 6 in a pinch.

I don’t care for the player but like I said if it’s coming in at league minimum to $900K, so be it. Anything above a million and that’s a head scratcher.

 

[egd27]

For guys like Matthews, they like money, he has that winning the Dubas lottery, next comes his legacy.

He's a specific type player, he is s a shooter that needs to play with a set up winger, (Marner). When he palyed with Hyman he reportedly sulked because Hyman was not a 1st line type guy. When he played with Kappy, he sulked (reportedly) because Kappy is a shooter too and was taking away good shots from Matthews. All rumors and speculation in the Toronto media. So if at any point Marner is moved back to play with JT, Matthews has who for a linemate? Nylander? He's a shooter too.

Although we have 4 really good top end forwards, the pieces don't fit well together, for both lines, it's almost like we need another Marner type for JT. With Robertson coming up, he's a shooter, do we want JT/ Matthews taking the shot or do we want Robertson taking the shot? We have a lot of good parts up front but they look like pieces from different puzzles that don't fit well together

Interesting perspective. Would suggest that, if necessary, WN would be the odd man out.

 

[egd27]

all these overpayments are on our weak GM and they started with overpaying JT ,

Unfortunately, it seems that Kid Kyle subscribes to the same philosophy as many fans. When a big name UFA is available for "just cash", then you must sign him.

He got caught up in being the guy that brought JT home. My guess is he's about to do the same thing with AP.

Then we can all marvel at all the elite talent he has acquired, and brag to our friends that are fans of other teams about them while they watch their teams win playoff rounds.

 

[The CyNick]

You have valid point. Not sure Tavares will have many buyers.

In regards to Matthews, I think he 100% bolts after his 5 years is up. He will yield the best return as he has the most value. Really don’t like the thought of trading him, but he is pretty much gone in a few years anyway

I agree on him bolting. There are a lot of young stars in Canadian markets. Auston being American would be huge in a big market like LA for example. I could see a lot of pressure on him to sign in a market like that.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Unfortunately, it seems that Kid Kyle subscribes to the same philosophy as many fans. When a big name UFA is available for "just cash", then you must sign him.

He got caught up in being the guy that brought JT home. My guess is he's about to do the same thing with AP.

Then we can all marvel at all the elite talent he has acquired, and brag to our friends that are fans of other teams about them while they watch their teams win playoff rounds.

.. Except AP fills the team's biggest need that's been a need for a long time.