Prospect Info: Alex Nylander (2016, 8th) – '17-18: Rochester #92 (AHL)

[sabrebuild]

His age and skill set gives cause to have hope.

His lack of intensity and pace is concerning. Particularly with his background, he should be the type that knows how to compete and is more pro ready, because he has the family example in front of him.

On the other hand, maybe he just needed to gain confidence, fill in his weight and take off next year with maturation. It would be nice to have an elc top six winger to support 15, 23, 90 or 37.

It would certainly be a nice piece luck for this sad sack franchise.

 

[DJN21]

I’m not sure if one, as a hockey fan, should be boasting they were hitting the panic button 1 year after a prospect was drafted.

I for one am not as worried as I probably should be. Nylander had his preseason cut short after showing some chemistry with Jack and Reinhart. He didn’t play for 25 games to start the season because of a serious injury which limited his training and continued conditioning then couple that with a brand new system from what he was taught his first professional season. The kid by the time playoffs came around probably was just feeling physically good, he needed to then work on his mental side of the game.

People complain about Murray’s Asset management and his trading of guys in their development(in the case of Armia, years into it), yet want to trade a developing prospect...

I've stated on numerous occasions that through work I get free home tickets to amerks games. I have watched alex live more times than most around here.

My comments aren't off the cuff or boasting. They are a matter of fact that he is very lackluster. When he scores it' because the puck came to him. He doesn't create a solid fart on his own let alone a scoring chance.

He has taken physical strides in growing his frame. Maybe he continues and find even second gear...I'm doubtful and unwilling to gamble. I' rather sell high and find a player I'm more comfortable with.

 

[valet]

I've stated on numerous occasions that through work I get free home tickets to amerks games. I have watched alex live more times than most around here.

My comments aren't off the cuff or boasting. They are a matter of fact that he is very lackluster. When he scores it' because the puck came to him. He doesn't create a solid fart on his own let alone a scoring chance.

He has taken physical strides in growing his frame. Maybe he continues and find even second gear...I'm doubtful and unwilling to gamble. I' rather sell high and find a player I'm more comfortable with.

just because you've watched a handful of amerks game doesn't mean you have an eye for evaluating talent or knowing how players will develop... let's not confuse the two. you could be wrong just like any of us.

 

[dire wolf]

I'm not giving up on Nylander yet, although my expectations are extremely modest at this point. However, that pick just burns me up. It's not just that Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, et al. were still on the board. It's that: (a) those guys were on the board and virtually everybody on here and all of the analysts were saying we should pick one of those guys; and (b) Murray had just decimated our defense by trading away Myers, McNabb, Zadorov & Pysyk. (yeah, I know he brought Bogo and Kulikov back, but my point still stands) And, while you can try to defend any of those moves individually, the inescapable conclusion is that he stripped our already thin D pool and then went off the board to pick a forward in Nylander instead of one of several fairly obvious blue chip D prospects. I have never gotten over this pick.

 

[Aladyyn]

I'm not giving up on Nylander yet, although my expectations are extremely modest at this point. However, that pick just burns me up. It's not just that Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, et al. were still on the board. It's that: (a) those guys were on the board and virtually everybody on here and all of the analysts were saying we should pick one of those guys; and (b) Murray had just decimated our defense by trading away Myers, McNabb, Zadorov & Pysyk. (yeah, I know he brought Bogo and Kulikov back, but my point still stands) And, while you can try to defend any of those moves individually, the inescapable conclusion is that he stripped our already thin D pool and then went off the board to pick a forward in Nylander instead of one of several fairly obvious blue chip D prospects. I have never gotten over this pick.

I haven't been as down on Alex as most but yeah, this pick is by far the biggest blunder of Murray's tenure. Nothing compares.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I'm not giving up on Nylander yet, although my expectations are extremely modest at this point. However, that pick just burns me up. It's not just that Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, et al. were still on the board. It's that: (a) those guys were on the board and virtually everybody on here and all of the analysts were saying we should pick one of those guys; and (b) Murray had just decimated our defense by trading away Myers, McNabb, Zadorov & Pysyk. (yeah, I know he brought Bogo and Kulikov back, but my point still stands) And, while you can try to defend any of those moves individually, the inescapable conclusion is that he stripped our already thin D pool and then went off the board to pick a forward in Nylander instead of one of several fairly obvious blue chip D prospects. I have never gotten over this pick.

Nylander wasnt an off the board pick. Consensus had him higher than we picked him if I remember corrsctly. Nkt defending it but certainly not off the board.

 

[HaNotsri]

Nylander wasnt an off the board pick. Consensus had him higher than we picked him if I remember corrsctly. Nkt defending it but certainly not off the board.

It just seems like very single Murray move backfired, even the ones that looked good at the time starts to sour. He's the anti-Midas. Probably sitting in the corner of his parents basement listening to Nine Inch Nails right now.

My guess is that Nylander will become Tyler Ennis 2.0.
If you look at the top ten of past drafts there's some bad picks in almost all of them.

 

[OkimLom]

I've stated on numerous occasions that through work I get free home tickets to amerks games. I have watched alex live more times than most around here.

My comments aren't off the cuff or boasting. They are a matter of fact that he is very lackluster. When he scores it' because the puck came to him. He doesn't create a solid fart on his own let alone a scoring chance.

He has taken physical strides in growing his frame. Maybe he continues and find even second gear...I'm doubtful and unwilling to gamble. I' rather sell high and find a player I'm more comfortable with.

So you’re saying to sell high. And you said you hit the panic button last year. So you’re pretty much saying he’s going to regress from this point. A 20 year old player is going to go backwards in his development. Gotcha.

Shouldnt that say something about the confidence in the inability of the coaching staff to get something out of Nylander though?

How do you feel about Botts “theory” of drafting and developing players slowly? Curious how you feel about that.

 

[Dreakon13]

My guess is that Nylander will become Tyler Ennis 2.0.

If by that you mean, a talented player that never quite reaches his potential for some reason. Because Ennis was never a player you would question the effort of... his decision making though.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

It just seems like very single Murray move backfired, even the ones that looked good at the time starts to sour. He's the anti-Midas. Probably sitting in the corner of his parents basement listening to Nine Inch Nails right now.

My guess is that Nylander will become Tyler Ennis 2.0.
If you look at the top ten of past drafts there's some bad picks in almost all of them.

Not daying it didn't backfire but consensus had him at 6 (google it). It wasnt an off the board pick, it was just a bad pick. And there was nothing wrong with picking a winger either as we need them now as badly as defenders...we just chose a bad one it seems. His reported lack of any desire to compete by those that watch him regularly is extremely concerning despite some not being ready to give up on him.

 

[Zip15]

I was encouraged by his final 30 games or so. He certainly needs another (full) season in Rochester, as much as he and his handlers may disagree. He's probably just a 40-45 point middle-6 wing who needs defensive protection, so in that sense an Ennis comparison isn't terrible.

 

[pigpen65]

I feel bad for him personally. Lot of talent and tons of potential, just rushed to the pros way way too early. If he was still in juniors where he should have been he would be riding some crazy ppg average right now probably competing for a memorial cup and nobody would be using the word bust.

 

[Jim Bob]

I feel bad for him personally. Lot of talent and tons of potential, just rushed to the pros way way too early. If he was still in juniors where he should have been he would be riding some crazy ppg average right now probably competing for a memorial cup and nobody would be using the word bust.

It is too bad that Alex and his representatives wanted it this way.

 

[pigpen65]

It is too bad that Alex and his representatives wanted it this way.

Was it the dad? I forget who it was but i remember hearing a story about a GM who along with interviewing the player, always made sure to interview the parents. If the dad was too involved / too big of a pain in the ass, it added a big negative to the player's value because of situations just like this. Maybe that's why William also fell from consensus top 3 the entire year prior to his draft to 8th overall. Interestingly, i remember hearing recently that Lehner also had an overly involved dad. If TM ever gets another chance i bet he'll take it more serious.

 

[Jim Bob]

Was it the dad? I forget who it was but i remember hearing a story about a GM who along with interviewing the player, always made sure to interview the parents. If the dad was too involved / too big of a pain in the ass, it added a big negative to the player's value because of situations just like this. Maybe that's why William also fell from consensus top 3 the entire year prior to his draft to 8th overall. Interestingl, i also remember hearing recently that Lehner also had an overly involved dad. If TM ever gets another chance i bet he'll take it more serious.

Who knows.

But, this is similar to the Zadorov situation where the player and his side didn't want the player going back to Jrs when that is what probably would have been the best thing for them.

 

[old kummelweck]

This would be comical if people weren't so passionate about throwing away this asset.

 

[pigpen65]

Who knows.

But, this is similar to the Zadorov situation where the player and his side didn't want the player going back to Jrs when that is what probably would have been the best thing for them.

I guess Grigorenko too.

 

[Dreakon13]

This would be comical if people weren't so passionate about throwing away this asset.

It's just that the absolute last thing this team needs is a talented kid with drive/motivation issues. The way the organization has trended the last few years, he'll never see his potential. Even the passionate guys are getting beaten/worn down from it all... Nylander doesn't stand a chance.

He'd probably do much better in an organization where they already have the groundwork for success laid out and doesn't need him to be much more than what he is... and we'd probably do much better even with slightly lower grade assets that bring it every night.

 

[ZZamboni]

Want vs. need.

Can the Sabres afford to be patient for another season with Alex?

I think they can. So because of that, keep him in Rochester and see how he does. Worst case, he doesn’t move his own needle and we trade him next February for whatever we can return and chalk it up to a wasted pick. Like so many GM’s experience. Even picks that weren’t his to begin with.

 

[OkimLom]

I'm not giving up on Nylander yet, although my expectations are extremely modest at this point. However, that pick just burns me up. It's not just that Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, et al. were still on the board. It's that: (a) those guys were on the board and virtually everybody on here and all of the analysts were saying we should pick one of those guys; and (b) Murray had just decimated our defense by trading away Myers, McNabb, Zadorov & Pysyk. (yeah, I know he brought Bogo and Kulikov back, but my point still stands) And, while you can try to defend any of those moves individually, the inescapable conclusion is that he stripped our already thin D pool and then went off the board to pick a forward in Nylander instead of one of several fairly obvious blue chip D prospects. I have never gotten over this pick.

Traded McNabb at a time we had the depth to withstand that trade. Plenty of depth (McCabe, Ehrhoff, Zadorov, Ristolainen, Pysyk) still capable of withstanding that move. Also not really developing that good in Rochester. -1 on depth.

Traded Myers received Bogo. Say what you want about the the move, but it was a 1 for 1. Didn't impact our depth. Bogo actually had a good rest of the season under Nolan. Even on the depth in pipeline/roster.

Traded Zadorov at the draft. In said same draft, drafted Guhle, Borgen, Stephens. Essentially 1 out 3 in the pipeline +2 on depth. Guhle, IMO has the potential to be better than Zadorov. Borgen is a solid prospect and has a nice resume to look at. Stephens TBD.

Traded Pysyk. Brought in Kulikov in return and received a solid player in Asplund as well. One in One out. If Kulikov didn't get injured and Bylsma wasn't here, I would guess Kulikov could've been back, unfortunately it was a one and done. Even at the time of the trade, -1 long term as Pysyk was a RFA.

Didn't strip our depth, he pushed back the timeline of development of the defense. It's still there. If you want to be pissed about something, maybe be a little angry that his answer of making up for the buyout of Ehrhoff was to bring in Gorges who aged pretty damn quickly here.

As for the Nylander pick, I was fully on board for drafting Chychrun. Probably the biggest fanboy on this board. But I also didn't have a problem with choosing Nylander at the #8 position. He was selected where he was ranked. We didn't have any high end talent in our pipeline for forwards. We needed the type of forward Nylander was scouted as. We needed high end talent at the forward position, and we needed high end at the defense. We weren't going to address ONE of those issues at #8. I leaned towards drafting a Defenseman, trading for defenseman, and signing a defenseman during the offseason. It wasn't because we were thin in our pipeline, but the importance of solidifying and constantly improving the D-Corp when the opportunity arises. There were 3 defenseman at our spot.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Traded McNabb at a time we had the depth to withstand that trade. Plenty of depth (McCabe, Ehrhoff, Zadorov, Ristolainen, Pysyk) still capable of withstanding that move. Also not really developing that good in Rochester. -1 on depth.

Traded Myers received Bogo. Say what you want about the the move, but it was a 1 for 1. Didn't impact our depth. Bogo actually had a good rest of the season under Nolan. Even on the depth in pipeline/roster.

Traded Zadorov at the draft. In said same draft, drafted Guhle, Borgen, Stephens. Essentially 1 out 3 in the pipeline +2 on depth. Guhle, IMO has the potential to be better than Zadorov. Borgen is a solid prospect and has a nice resume to look at. Stephens TBD.

Traded Pysyk. Brought in Kulikov in return and received a solid player in Asplund as well. One in One out. If Kulikov didn't get injured and Bylsma wasn't here, I would guess Kulikov could've been back, unfortunately it was a one and done. Even at the time of the trade, -1 long term as Pysyk was a RFA.

Didn't strip our depth, he pushed back the timeline of development of the defense. It's still there. If you want to be pissed about something, maybe be a little angry that his answer of making up for the buyout of Ehrhoff was to bring in Gorges who aged pretty damn quickly here.

As for the Nylander pick, I was fully on board for drafting Chychrun. Probably the biggest fanboy on this board. But I also didn't have a problem with choosing Nylander at the #8 position. He was selected where he was ranked. We didn't have any high end talent in our pipeline for forwards. We needed the type of forward Nylander was scouted as. We needed high end talent at the forward position, and we needed high end at the defense. We weren't going to address ONE of those issues at #8. I leaned towards drafting a Defenseman, trading for defenseman, and signing a defenseman during the offseason. It wasn't because we were thin in our pipeline, but the importance of solidifying and constantly improving the D-Corp when the opportunity arises. There were 3 defenseman at our spot.

Was it Des for McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching or was it 2 2nds for Des and McNabb for Fasching? No way around that trash trade.

Trading Pysyk for Kulikov and now Kulikov is gone and Pysyk is still on Florida is terrible. We traded getting Apslund but also traded away a second which you left out of your post. We could have moved down the 6 spots for a 3rd. It was a disaster of a trade.

Myers for Bogo was a disaster of a trade. Myers had huge value and was sought after. Bogo was already gaining a reputation for being made of glass and sporadic so its not really one for one when the guy is never in the line up for Winnipeg either. He missed like 150 games in has last 4 years in Winnipeg. Hello RED FLAG.

Claiming that trading Zadarov is ok because we have Borgen, Guhle and Stephens is just nonsense. The logic in your post is just crazy. Zadarov is worth more than those three combined and it is not even close. Trading a sure thing prospect because maybe you got something in the pipeline is why we are at where we are now.

You seem to think 1 for 1 is good trades regardless of contract standing or skill. We all learned our lesson with Rory Fitzpatrick and the mess we had back there in the playoffs The old saying goes you can never have too many good defenceman and here is this clown Murray trading them away like candy on Halloween.

 

[OkimLom]

Was it Des for McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching or was it 2 2nds for Des and McNabb for Fasching? No way around that trash trade.

Trading Pysyk for Kulikov and now Kulikov is gone and Pysyk is still on Florida is terrible. We traded getting Apslund but also traded away a second which you left out of your post. We could have moved down the 6 spots for a 3rd. It was a disaster of a trade.

Myers for Bogo was a disaster of a trade. Myers had huge value and was sought after. Bogo was already gaining a reputation for being made of glass and sporadic so its not really one for one when the guy is never in the line up for Winnipeg either. He missed like 150 games in has last 4 years in Winnipeg. Hello RED FLAG.

Claiming that trading Zadarov is ok because we have Borgen, Guhle and Stephens is just nonsense. The logic in your post is just crazy. Zadarov is worth more than those three combined and it is not even close. Trading a sure think prospect because maybe you got something in the pipeline is why we are at where we are now.

You seem to think 1 for 1 is good trades regardless of contract standing or skill. We all learned our lesson with Rory Fitzpatrick and the mess we had back there in the playoffs The old saying goes you can never have too many good defenceman and here is this clown Murray trading them away like candy on Halloween.

You seem to be missing the point of the post. My point was that they didn't STRIP the depth of the pipeline and left it thin. That's all I was addressing. It wasn't about the value of the trades, it was about Murray filling the holes he created, which is not what most people address.

If someone new came in, and they were told, Murray got rid of our defense depth and thinned our pipeline, He traded Myers, he traded McNabb, He traded Zadorov, he traded Pysyk, then those are factual statements, but that's just half the story. But to a new person that would seem like he was just gutting out the pipeline. Of course, people like to leave out that bit that he replenished the pipeline with the drafts and most times, he was bringing back a defenseman in his trades.

It's fun watching the guys he traded away succeed on other teams, where they are fit on the roster better, where they are coached better, where they received better developing. If he keeps them here, do you think they have the same trajectory? Ristolainen was considered our future #1 defenseman by most on here. See what happens to a guy that stays in this atmosphere? He's kind of regressing. If you think you were going to get the McNabb we see in Vegas or last year's Kings, you're wrong. If you think you were going to get the Zadorov from Colorado, you're wrong. Pysyk is for sure playing better in Florida, but he's only slightly better than what he showed here. If you think you were going to get the Myers in Winnipeg, you're wrong. If Myers was such an important piece he let go, why exactly was he in many trade proposals?

Once again, Murray's biggest crime isn't the trades he did, it's the crappy coaching he hired that ruined this team.

 

[Jim Bob]

I guess Grigorenko too.

Grigorenko at least played 56 more games in JRs after being drafted.

The problem with Grigorenko was that he spent time in teh Q, AHL, and NHL in each of his first two post-draft seasons.

That was a Sabres mishandling of his development thing.

Zadorov and his reps fought and fought to keep him in Buffalo in his post-draft season even when it was obvious that he should go back to London. At least he did finish the season in London.

 

[Icicle]

Was it Des for McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching or was it 2 2nds for Des and McNabb for Fasching? No way around that trash trade.

Trading Pysyk for Kulikov and now Kulikov is gone and Pysyk is still on Florida is terrible. We traded getting Apslund but also traded away a second which you left out of your post. We could have moved down the 6 spots for a 3rd. It was a disaster of a trade.

Myers for Bogo was a disaster of a trade. Myers had huge value and was sought after. Bogo was already gaining a reputation for being made of glass and sporadic so its not really one for one when the guy is never in the line up for Winnipeg either. He missed like 150 games in has last 4 years in Winnipeg. Hello RED FLAG.

Claiming that trading Zadarov is ok because we have Borgen, Guhle and Stephens is just nonsense. The logic in your post is just crazy. Zadarov is worth more than those three combined and it is not even close. Trading a sure thing prospect because maybe you got something in the pipeline is why we are at where we are now.

You seem to think 1 for 1 is good trades regardless of contract standing or skill. We all learned our lesson with Rory Fitzpatrick and the mess we had back there in the playoffs The old saying goes you can never have too many good defenceman and here is this clown Murray trading them away like candy on Halloween.

Myers missed more time than Bogo did over the years since the trade. Only difference is he is healthy today.

 

[Chainshot]

So coming back to Nylander... we can hope this season has an impact on his drive - make sure this sort of crap never happens ever again and all that. They still have time. It is really all they have here.