Alex Anthopolous not returning as Blue Jays GM

[spintheblackcircle]

Dude, Rogers gave Shapiro final say on baseball decisions during the summer.

It was essentially over for AA the minute that happened by all accounts. That's what people are mad at. That they trusted Shapiro over AA.

Meanwhile...

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb-new...-blue-jays-sporting-news?eadid=SOC/Twi/SNMain

Shapiro has 2 of those Exec of the Year awards

 

[Pwnasaurus]

Shapiro has 2 of those Exec of the Year awards

So does Bill Veeck

 

[JS19]

Shapiro has 2 of those Exec of the Year awards

From years ago. He has done nothing noteworthy after 2007 (apparently, his drafting was terrible so there's nothing to make up for frugal ownership's stringent constraints. Only good thing being trades where he got prospects that are now making an impact on the organization).

 

[cutchemist42]

IIRC no one expected Gomes to be anywhere as good as he's become.

TBH, Im surprised when people say this because I know there was talk of Gomes being a great catching prospect, and people did question the Jays letting go. I honestly thought this too just based off watching his limited Jays appearances. It wasnt a universally held opinion by everyone about his ceiling, but I definitely did hear and agreed with it.

 

[Muston Atthews]

From years ago. He has done nothing noteworthy after 2007 (apparently, his drafting was terrible so there's nothing to make up for frugal ownership's stringent constraints. Only good thing being trades where he got prospects that are now making an impact on the organization).

More money = more & better scouts = more likelihood for better draft picks. A day later and you still can't wrap your head around this concept.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

PETITION!!!

RE-HIRE ANTHOPOULOS. FIRE SHAPIRO.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/20...x-anthopoulos-fire-new-president-mark-shapiro

 

[Fish on The Sand]

TBH, Im surprised when people say this because I know there was talk of Gomes being a great catching prospect, and people did question the Jays letting go. I honestly thought this too just based off watching his limited Jays appearances. It wasnt a universally held opinion by everyone about his ceiling, but I definitely did hear and agreed with it.

I can say that as an Indians fan that Aviles was the centerpiece in the trade. The need to have somebody spell Cabrera at the time was considered both important and fixable. This was technically an Antonetti trade though, and likely one that Shapiro had minimal input on other than perhaps rubber stamping it, but it still is an example of AA's weakness, which is overpaying for short term fixes. The Indians sold high on a middle reliever who had only had one good season and now have a great catcher because of it.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

From years ago. He has done nothing noteworthy after 2007 (apparently, his drafting was terrible so there's nothing to make up for frugal ownership's stringent constraints. Only good thing being trades where he got prospects that are now making an impact on the organization).

A frugal ownership absolutely has a huge impact on a team's drafting ability...especially before the current system was put in place. Teams used to be able to draft guys later than they were projected to go (because they weren't "signable") and then throw a boatload of money at them to try and get them to change their mind. Obviously this was a huge advantage to big market teams, but it helped smaller market teams as well if they were willing to spend big in the draft (I believe Pittsburgh took this approach for awhile).

 

[Fish on The Sand]

A frugal ownership absolutely has a huge impact on a team's drafting ability...especially before the current system was put in place. Teams used to be able to draft guys later than they were projected to go (because they weren't "signable") and then throw a boatload of money at them to try and get them to change their mind. Obviously this was a huge advantage to big market teams, but it helped smaller market teams as well if they were willing to spend big in the draft (I believe Pittsburgh took this approach for awhile).

The big example was the Twins passing on Mark Prior with the first overall pick because they couldn't afford him and instead taking Maurer. Granted in this case it worked out for them as Maurer himself was a very good prospect and Prior's career ended just after it started, but it goes to show how big of an impact signability had

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

PETITION!!!



http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/20...x-anthopoulos-fire-new-president-mark-shapiro

Seems like an expensive solution.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

I just see it as AA betting on himself. Why would he wait a year to decide his future, when his market value is at an all time high right now? A lot can happen in a year, especially under a new regime.

 

[Virtanen18]

PETITION!!!



http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/20...x-anthopoulos-fire-new-president-mark-shapiro

Like, what's gonna happen if that hits 1k?

 

[JS19]

I just see it as AA betting on himself. Why would he wait a year to decide his future, when his market value is at an all time high right now? A lot can happen in a year, especially under a new regime.

This is probably a long ****ing shot. But maybe he waits for Shapiro to **** bricks and then prays that Rogers come back to him? Then again, he may wait for Montreal's MLB team if they ever get the approval and TBR fail to get a new stadium. Being a hometown guy and a shrewd baseball mind works in his favour too.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

This is probably a long ****ing shot. But maybe he waits for Shapiro to **** bricks and then prays that Rogers come back to him? Then again, he may wait for Montreal's MLB team if they ever get the approval and TBR fail to get a new stadium. Being a hometown guy and a shrewd baseball mind works in his favour too.

That would be career suicide. There's no way AA is planning on Montreal expansion or Rogers turning on Shapiro in less than a year. If he goes a full year without a job he'll mostly be forgotten. He's got to be betting on a job opening somewhere in the next year. Its not like he has much in the way of connections in the league. He was Ricciardi's man before taking over and he's nowhere to be seen. If Montreal was to get a team in the next 3 years (which is not going to happen) he probably wouldn't even be the first choice most likely. You are more likely to see Dan Duquette or Chris Antonetti take the take before AA.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I would imagine he would be candidate number 1 for GM of the Expos 2.0 if it ever came to be and he was still looking for a GM gig. Local, young, speaks both languages, great with the media, makes bold moves, etc.

Anthopoulos only said it wasn't the right "fit," leaving much to the imagination. But the reality is, he didn't feel he'd be able to work comfortably with Shapiro, according to people familiar with the situation.

No, this was about the match. The pair is said to have had only a couple big meetings and a few more phone calls while Shapiro was finishing out his stay in Cleveland and giving Beeston his space. But word is, while Shapiro thought the confabs went well, Anthopoulos saw them negatively. While Shapiro thought he was being effusive in his praise, Anthopoulos heard only criticisms.

Shapiro apparently thought he was providing sufficient support. But after working 24-hour days for months, Anthopoulos, undoubtedly fried, probably needed some pats on the back. A friend of his outside the organization suggested he felt was being constantly told he's no good.

Shapiro, a brilliant man who normally chooses his words precisely, at one point was said to have discussed the lack of top prospects at the upper levels and the need to replenish the coffers following the big, season-altering trades, and Anthopoulos apparently took that as a slap

However, his remarks were received as unnecessary criticism. Another person with Blue Jays connections suggested that the erudite, Princeton-educated Shapiro, perhaps unintentionally, came off as smug, especially considering the Indians have had very solid, though not always spectacular, results in a very small market, and a less-than-stellar overall farm record (they made their hay with some very good trades). One other Jays person remarked, regarding Shapiro, "I didn't see his rings. Maybe they didn't get past the border."

 

[JS19]

That would be career suicide. There's no way AA is planning on Montreal expansion or Rogers turning on Shapiro in less than a year. If he goes a full year without a job he'll mostly be forgotten. He's got to be betting on a job opening somewhere in the next year. Its not like he has much in the way of connections in the league. He was Ricciardi's man before taking over and he's nowhere to be seen. If Montreal was to get a team in the next 3 years (which is not going to happen) he probably wouldn't even be the first choice most likely. You are more likely to see Dan Duquette or Chris Antonetti take the take before AA.

That's why I said it's a long shot, though I view the Montreal expansion (if it ever goes through) as more of a possibility than Rogers turning on Shapiro. Expos 2.0 can use Anthopoulos being the hometown guy to their advantage, and not to mention, he's a good GM too with some of the moves he made with the Jays. That being said, I find it hard to believe he'd be forgotten so easily, he has an impressive resume even if he goes a year without a job. Being Ricciardi's man is irrelevant, AA actually knows baseball as opposed to Ricciardi's "if the **** sticks on the wall, then let's go with it" approach. There's a reason why he doesn't have a GM job after 6 years. If Dan Duquette can find a job after so many years away from MLB, then there's no way Anthopoulos gets forgotten so easily.

I'm not sure Duquette makes a lot of sense for Expos 2.0, the Jays tried to hire him as President IIRC but was unable to due to lack of compensation and the fact that he's signed until 2019, I believe. I also can't see the Indians letting go of Antonetti since he seems to be a huge part of the Indians front office (even if he had previous experience for the Expos).

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Shapiro's drafting ability has always been a huge weakness. Only recently has that improved, and that may be because Antonetti gained more control over the draft, or once he relinquished the day to day operations of the club was able to put together better drafting strategies.

However he was arguably the best in baseball at stealing prospects from other teams.

He turned Bartolo Colon into Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips.

He turned Ryan Drese into Travis Hafner.

He turned Jake Westbrook into Corey Kluber.

The returns for Victor Martinez, C.C. Sabathia, and Cliff Lee were definitely underwhelming, but he still got an all star back in two of those trades as well as a solid number 2/3 starter in the other (Brantley, Masterson, and Carrasco) as well as some of the top prospects in baseball at the time in Matt LaPorta (who was a giant bust) and Jason Knapp (career derailed by injury).

Its easy to say the team wasn't very good after winning the 2007 division title, but you have to remember that he was squeezed by ownership into trading away the reigning Cy Young award winner two years in a row, and even in spite of that, the team was still poised to contend for the next 5 seasons however their top two players had their careers ruined by injury.

Think of how good the Jays would be if they were forced to trade away their top two pitchers and Bautista/Donaldson just woke up one day and couldn't play baseball properly anymore because of injury? That's what happened after 2007 to Cleveland.

he oversaw a team for 15 years, and it was terrible the vast majority of the time. shapiro has not earned this type of autonomy

 

[Fish on The Sand]

he oversaw a team for 15 years, and it was terrible the vast majority of the time. shapiro has not earned this type of autonomy

You are in the minority on this one as he's one of the most respected baseball minds in the business and his proteges are all also around the league in the form of such luminaries as Neal Huntington, John Farrell, and of course his Cleveland successor Chris Antonetti. He of course in his own right is a 2 time executive of the year, so its absolutely ridiculous to say he hasn't earned full autonomy.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

http://m.torontosun.com/2015/10/31/with-anthopoulos-gone-shapiros-takeover-of-blue-jays-complete

The offer came from Edward Rogers. Five years and almost $10 million to be general manager of the Toronto Blue Jays.

The offer didn’t come from Mark Shapiro, a distinction that needs to be made in trying to understand why Alex Anthopoulos walked away from the team.

An earlier offer from Shapiro, who today becomes president of the Jays, was for two years and there is some doubt whether the second year in that proposed deal was guaranteed. The two-year offer in a climate in which untested first-year general managers sign on for five years was indication enough that Shapiro didn’t really want Anthopoulos as his GM, and the offer was thought by some to be an insult.

The offer from Shapiro came at a time when the loud buzz around baseball was that he couldn’t wait to leave the Cleveland Indians presidency job to get back into the baseball side of the game.

The five-year, extensive and expensive offer made from Rogers to Anthopoulos was apparently made after the company was convinced he would say no.
It’s the kind of offer they could trumpet — See? We did our part — while ignoring the subtext.

 

[JS19]

I'd really have to wonder if that's true.

Why would there be a lack of harmony in offers between a president and owner, let alone an owner submitting his own offer to AA irrespective to Shapiro's? Is this Rogers's way of cleaning up their PR mess on their side while making Shapiro look like the bad guy?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

You are in the minority on this one as he's one of the most respected baseball minds in the business and his proteges are all also around the league in the form of such luminaries as Neal Huntington, John Farrell, and of course his Cleveland successor Chris Antonetti. He of course in his own right is a 2 time executive of the year, so its absolutely ridiculous to say he hasn't earned full autonomy.

"respected"
it's a results business, he had 15 years in cleveland and consistently fielded terrible teams. this isn't a guy who oversaw a team that has been regularly competitive, and he walks into toronto with a huge ego when he's never won ****

 

[Fish on The Sand]

"respected"
it's a results business, he had 15 years in cleveland and consistently fielded terrible teams. this isn't a guy who oversaw a team that has been regularly competitive, and he walks into toronto with a huge ego when he's never won ****

How's he showing that he has a huge ego? The only ego being shown is by AA in this.

 

[Timeless Winter]

"respected"
it's a results business, he had 15 years in cleveland and consistently fielded terrible teams. this isn't a guy who oversaw a team that has been regularly competitive, and he walks into toronto with a huge ego when he's never won ****

Sounds like a bitter Jays fan who knows nothing about the Indians, or baseball in general. I don't think you have an idea of how the game works.

 

[Edo]

"respected"
it's a results business, he had 15 years in cleveland and consistently fielded terrible teams. this isn't a guy who oversaw a team that has been regularly competitive, and he walks into toronto with a huge ego when he's never won ****

How many people are there available in baseball who have overseen teams that have been regularly competitive and won? Hell, how many people period?

 

[Virtanen18]

How's he showing that he has a huge ego? The only ego being shown is by AA in this.

How has AA shown a big ego?