AHL Affiliate Thread - Send them the Wolves

[AD Skinner]

People are always saying "as long as the team is winning these types of moves will be forgiven" or something along those lines, and I'm inclined to agree. That winning part though is the real crux of the biscuit... if they can sustain success at the expense of some goodwill, so be it. Success breeds its own goodwill. But once the success starts fading, will it have built up enough goodwill to sustain the inevitable doldrums? I guess we'll find out.

 

[GoldiFox]

You mean the days of a remote minor league team for call ups that had to bus the team from game to game? What was wrong with that?

Don't get me wrong, Chicago is a step up from the River Rat days. But it's a step back from Charlotte, and even purchasing a different AHL team to put in Greensboro long term would be a lateral move at best.

For me putting a 2nd AHL team in Greensboro would be a good deal better than lateral. For one Greensboro is 45 minutes from Raleigh vs 3 hours to Charlotte. Attending an AHL game would go from an overnight one-every-few-years event to a day trip.

Additionally, what would be better for increasing interest in hockey in NC than having two AHL teams? An immediate rivalry would be present with Charlotte. Most of the state could go see a pro hockey game in their backyard. More rinks would be built. Interest in the sport would increase across the board.

 

[Svechhammer]

The AHL affiliation with Charlotte is quite literally in the bottom quartile of things I care about going into the 2020-21 season and beyond. I really just don't care that they aren't our partner anymore. It was nice while it lasted, but there's no regional ties between Raleigh and Charlotte and outside of the state border including both, the cities really do operate independently of each other. If we do lose a chunk of the Charlotte base for the Canes, its highly unlikely it is going to move the needle as a part of the whole. For the people in Charlotte, it sucks, but it is what it is.

I am not going to melt down over this. This is a nothingburger.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

For me putting a 2nd AHL team in Greensboro would be a good deal better than lateral. For one Greensboro is 45 minutes from Raleigh vs 3 hours to Charlotte. Attending an AHL game would go from an overnight one-every-few-years event to a day trip.

Additionally, what would be better for increasing interest in hockey in NC than having two AHL teams? An immediate rivalry would be present with Charlotte. Most of the state could go see a pro hockey game in their backyard. More rinks would be built. Interest in the sport would increase across the board.

I will say this: the Canes have gone Super All In on local rinks in the Triangle, including bankrolling the new WCC facility. It's difficult to make the "doesn't care about investing in the local hockey market" case, so let's put that particular discussion to bed.

Whatever deal they have with the Swamp Rabbits indicates that they haven't simply given up on the Carolinas as a market. It's crystal clear that this organization believes in investing money where they expect that money to bring them some kind of return. For whatever reason, they've decided that the current incarnation of the Charlotte Checkers was not providing that return. Sara says there's more of a story there, so I think we just see how it plays out.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Related: you think David Tepper gives a shit about the Triangle? Let's not pretend that Charlotte and the Triangle are always great friends in all matters sporting related.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I find it funny as an outsider (born in NC, but raised and live in VA) that there was so much shade it felt like around the Soccer situation and Charlotte vs Raleigh, but it's so devastating to lose our AHL affiliate there.

 

[Svechhammer]

Related: you think David Tepper gives a shit about the Triangle? Let's not pretend that Charlotte and the Triangle are always great friends in all matters sporting related.

He literally shit all over Raleigh in the process of getting a MLS team in Charlotte.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I find it funny as an outsider (born in NC, but raised and live in VA) that there was so much shade it felt like around the Soccer situation and Charlotte vs Raleigh, but it's so devastating to lose our AHL affiliate there.

I mean, we do have a lot of Charlotte fans, and there's no doubt it really really sucks for them. If there's no long-term resolution for in-state AHL hockey, I think it's a step backward.

I don't think that's the long-term story, though.

 

[HisIceness]

I will be shocked if Greensboro gets a 2nd AHL franchise, let alone another ECHL franchise at this point. The Monarchs two-year stint didn't go well and pissed a lot of people off. I get that was 1995 but Hockey in the Triad in general hasn't gone over well since the Hurricanes left 20 years ago. It's too bad because they were a great ECHL town but the ECHL isn't even what it was in 1995.

Plus, I'm not sure the Greensboro Coliseum can host a Hockey team nowadays anyway, not with UNC-G hosting the mens and womens hoops teams and the G-League Swarm playing at the facility, what dates would even be available?

I was an advocate for Greensboro getting a team again, preferably the Canes ECHL team, but Greenville does a better job supporting the Swamp Rabbits than Greensboro did w/ the Generals and whatever other teams they and Winston-Salem have had since the Canes left. And, if there's no facility for them to play in, forget it. That Annex or whatever it is in Winston-Salem right next to the Joel Coliseum, isn't going to cut it.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Related: you think David Tepper gives a shit about the Triangle? Let's not pretend that Charlotte and the Triangle are always great friends in all matters sporting related.

Would not be surprised if a Tepper Dundon feud is behind this somehow.

 

[HisIceness]

I find it funny as an outsider (born in NC, but raised and live in VA) that there was so much shade it felt like around the Soccer situation and Charlotte vs Raleigh, but it's so devastating to lose our AHL affiliate there.

The whole 'shade' thing goes back years. I don't remember a lot of enthusiasum for the Hornets/Panthers in Raleigh in the days before the Hurricanes were even a thing. Granted I was young then but I wore my Hornets jersey all the time and no one in Raleigh seemed to give a damn. The basketball camp I went to that was hosted by Chris Corchiani and Rodney Monroe (two NC State players from the Jimmy V days) the other campers were mostly Bulls or Lakers fans NBA-wise. College Hoops and all being king is what it is, but even the Panthers never really caught on until very recently, and even then it's still kind of sparse.

Likewise, it's hard most years being a Canes fan here. Rednecks in this town like to use the "hurr-durr Hockey ain't Southern!" card while the others use the "Hurr-durr that's Raleighs team they suck Hockey ain't a major sport lol!" card, so it's not easy making Hockey friends here unless that friend is from Boston or something. 1 preseason game in 20+ years all while playing in bullshit towns like Quebec City and Saskatoon as the 'home team' doesn't do anything for me. The Checkers were that lifeline, and in fact during the dark years they provided a glimmer of hope. They actually made the playoffs somewhat regularly and technically are still the defending Calder Cup Champs.

I never in a million years expected this, but here we are. Maybe if the Checkers weren't such an outlier this wouldn't happen, I was kind of hoping this would open a door for Atlanta or even Florida but alas no dice. Or maybe not, I'm sure this f***ing Covid-19 plays a role too but ultimately I bet this is a dick-measuring contest between Dundon and Khan, and for people like me, no one wins that contest.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I mean, the Utica Comets arena holds 3860. It's not a high bar to clear. There are plenty of teams that play in front of 5k or less in the AHL, and I'm sure there will be plenty of struggling teams.

As for Greensboro, the Swarm doesn't play in the arena; they play in the adjacent Fieldhouse that holds 2118. I'm sure the UNC-G women could move to the Fieldhouse as well, and the UNC-G men configure the arena for 7500. If a hockey team shows up, I'm sure they could figure it out.

 

[tarheelhockey]

there's no regional ties between Raleigh and Charlotte and outside of the state border including both, the cities really do operate independently of each other

That's way, way oversimplifying things. Tons of people move back and forth between Charlotte and Raleigh. Tons of businesses (with advertising budgets) have offices in both locations. FSN covers both markets and actively co-brands their sports properties. Broadcast signals overlap in the middle. There's the Triad in between them which effectively shares both markets.

Are there petty rivalries between the two cities, sure, but there's a reason a whole bunch of pro teams have gone out of their way to cultivate cross-state connections. When you've got a city of nearly 3 million people a day-trip away, it would be foolish not to treat that as part of your market. And yes, the stuff with Tepper going in the other direction was stupid (even though I think some folks perceived anti-Raleigh vibes in what was actually an anti-Atlanta shot).

I'm looking forward to Sara revealing whatever this big secret is, because it has to be something to make this make sense. Currently, and possibly out of full context, the direction we're taking does not make sense for this market.

 

[DaveG]

I will be shocked if Greensboro gets a 2nd AHL franchise, let alone another ECHL franchise at this point. The Monarchs two-year stint didn't go well and pissed a lot of people off. I get that was 1995 but Hockey in the Triad in general hasn't gone over well since the Hurricanes left 20 years ago. It's too bad because they were a great ECHL town but the ECHL isn't even what it was in 1995.

Plus, I'm not sure the Greensboro Coliseum can host a Hockey team nowadays anyway, not with UNC-G hosting the mens and womens hoops teams and the G-League Swarm playing at the facility, what dates would even be available?

I was an advocate for Greensboro getting a team again, preferably the Canes ECHL team, but Greenville does a better job supporting the Swamp Rabbits than Greensboro did w/ the Generals and whatever other teams they and Winston-Salem have had since the Canes left. And, if there's no facility for them to play in, forget it. That Annex or whatever it is in Winston-Salem right next to the Joel Coliseum, isn't going to cut it.

I mean you're not wrong about the Joel annex, it's definitely tiny and entirely lacking in amenities to be more than it currently is level wise. But the support that the Thunderbirds get is quite solid. About 3k per game in a league that's not even on par with the SPHL. The market's there for minor league hockey in the triad, it's in Winston-Salem, the question is if the market would be there in Greensboro for the Canes top affiliate since the Joel would never work for the AHL.

 

[HisIceness]

As for Greensboro, the Swarm doesn't play in the arena; they play in the adjacent Fieldhouse that holds 2118. I'm sure the UNC-G women could move to the Fieldhouse as well, and the UNC-G men configure the arena for 7500. If a hockey team shows up, I'm sure they could figure it out.

I know they don't, but since it's on the same land how difficult do the logistics become between hosting a Hockey team in the big building and having the Swarm/UNC-G play in the smaller fieldhouse on the same night?

The city also built their gigantic aquatic center on the same land, which I believe plays host to several NCAA events.

I haven't been to the complex in years, but I did go to a concert that drew about 10k right before the Aquatic center and fieldhouse were built, and traffic/parking was pretty difficult that night, it may have been my own fault for not being prepared ahead of time but I wasn't expecting it to be as difficult as it was.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I know they don't, but since it's on the same land how difficult do the logistics become between hosting a Hockey team in the big building and having the Swarm/UNC-G play in the smaller fieldhouse on the same night?

The city also built their gigantic aquatic center on the same land, which I believe plays host to several NCAA events.

I haven't been to the complex in years, but I did go to a concert that drew about 10k right before the Aquatic center and fieldhouse were built, and traffic/parking was pretty difficult that night.

The Bo is a damned mess for parking every game I've been there. These are regular arena issues anywhere, and Greensboro has held 20k+ events regularly for years. I'm sure they could figure it out if that's the direction they choose to go.

Again, all pure speculation.

 

[HisIceness]

The Bo is a damned mess for parking every game I've been there

I don't disagree with that. It's even worse for High School graduations.

I mean you're not wrong about the Joel annex, it's definitely tiny and entirely lacking in amenities to be more than it currently is level wise. But the support that the Thunderbirds get is quite solid. About 3k per game in a league that's not even on par with the SPHL. The market's there for minor league hockey in the triad, it's in Winston-Salem, the question is if the market would be there in Greensboro for the Canes top affiliate since the Joel would never work for the AHL.

Hard to say but even 10 years ago when the Checkers upgraded, Charlotte was less of a question mark then, than Greensboro would be now.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Of course, in our hearts we know it's gonna be Chicago for a decade.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

I saw Norfolk play Hershey the last year they playing in the A. It was a nice experience. I never got an answer as to why the AHL abandoned Norfolk.
And I know the Cali teams moved their farm clubs to the west coast. Maybe it was just a musical chairs thing.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

He literally shit all over Raleigh in the process of getting a MLS team in Charlotte.

If by this you mean "he visited Raleigh many times during this process, and during that process he was forced to vacate his bowels in several different establishments" then perhaps he did literally shit all over Raleigh. But then, by the same token, I myself have been shitting all over the Triangle for nearly 40 years.

 

[AeroFishOne]

The Bo is a damned mess for parking every game I've been there. These are regular arena issues anywhere, and Greensboro has held 20k+ events regularly for years. I'm sure they could figure it out if that's the direction they choose to go.

Again, all pure speculation.

Yeah having grown up in Greensboro, I’d saw that the center is probably the most prepared facility in the area for a large number of people. Especially now since they tore down the old auditorium. Don’t know what the plans are but possibly even more parking if needed.

Greensboro would be interesting. I would be hopeful that the hockey fan has evolved since the last team played there. ECHL monarchs were fun to watch but the draw for a lot of locals was the fighting. The AHL monarchs was too big of a change at the time for a city that didn’t have a lot of experience with higher levels of hockey. Generals were a joke and I never cared much for that itteration of Greensboro hockey. The Hurricanes would have done better if they had priced the tickets more competitively and actively tried to start building a fan base there instead of focusing solely on the immediate return.

I would like to think that after 16 years maybe the fans in Greensboro have come to appreciate more skilled hockey and the arena is dying for a legit permanent tenant.

 

[MinJaBen]

If I were Dundon and looking to put an AHL team somewhere in the Carolinas, I'd pick Fayetteville. The arena they have is not a bad size and you have a bunch of kids there looking to spend their money on stupid excess stuff. Add to that that a lot of them are transplants from more traditional hockey locations and I think that would be a good market.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

If I were Dundon and looking to put an AHL team somewhere in the Carolinas, I'd pick Fayetteville. The arena they have is not a bad size and you have a bunch of kids there looking to spend their money on stupid excess stuff. Add to that that a lot of them are transplants from more traditional hockey locations and I think that would be a good market.

Crown is supposedly closing down in 2022 and I don't think there's a replacement venue on the books yet.

Plans to close Fayetteville's Crown Arena and Crown Theater in 2022 :: WRAL.com

Thought I don't necessarily disagree that it could be a good hockey town if they sort out the arena issue.

 

[HisIceness]

Geez, the Crown Coliseum isn't even that old. It was built in 1997 although I guess looking at that article, the entire complex goes back years.

Wonder what that means for the Marksmen? Hate to see them fold but that's what will likely happen, that is if Covid doesn't shut them down for good first. Too bad Myrtle Beach never built their coliseum for the-then Pee Dee Pride, that would be an interesting market to tap into.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I will say this: the Canes have gone Super All In on local rinks in the Triangle, including bankrolling the new WCC facility.

how much bankrolling did the Canes do? My understanding is that the project was in the works long before Dundon came on the scene (I spoke to a guy 4 years ago that that told me what was in the works). It’s unclear to me if the Canes funded any of the facility or just agreed to be a tenant.

It doesn’t change your overall point, I was just curious how much investment the Canes have in the place, m no it that it matters.