Agent: Leafs, Clifford mutually interested in extension

[Fogelhund]

Good analysis well done. Looks like Dubie needs to get a little better deals from Mik Dermy and Clifford. Not a lot but a little from each. Hopefully he has this skill set in him. If we keep having to pay everyone market or better we are dead. Also Marty and Malgin have to go and we need to add a tougher bottom pair type defender too. Go with a 21 man roster of we have too.

When I added Malgin in... it was just a guy with a minimum cap hit... It doesn't matter who they are IMO, when doing an analysis... This is more about the challenges with the math... I mean, exchange all of these minimum cap hit guys you want, and it doesn't change that our cap is tight, and our D isn't good enough.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When I added Malgin in... it was just a guy with a minimum cap hit... It doesn't matter who they are IMO, when doing an analysis... This is more about the challenges with the math... I mean, exchange all of these minimum cap hit guys you want, and it doesn't change that our cap is tight, and our D isn't good enough.

It was always going to be tough every year on CAP for next 2 seasons until US TV $$$ rolls in after da big 4 got signed ... save a MIL from Dermy Mik and Clifford, cut Marty outright we are at 1.7M per savings. Go with 21 man roster and use 1.7M to sign a vet defensive defender who can protect da house. Use 750K on Malgin for Martin for 1 year. There are ways to do it but again Dubie can't be MR NICE GUY with everyone.

 

[cannucky]

Thats a whole lot of math to avoid the only real questions : Would you give a second for Clifford ? would you take a second for Clifford ?
I bet everyone answers NFW to question 1 and Heck yes to question 2 so knowing that resigning him costs us a second why are we even considering signing this plug at any price ? I'm totally in favour of manning up our lineup but you need to do that with skilled guys who are tough as nails, let the free cast off be free again for someone else .

 

[Wafflewhipper]

AJ is replaceable. Yes he can score. But defensively he is weak. and he can't stay on his feet when hit. If we didn't have Mik Willy Mitch then I would keep him but he does not serve a team need except scoring. Also yes he can fit here and there in a top 6 but he is not a top 6 player. I'd rather have Sissons.

Same with Kappy TBH. I like Kappy because his speed changes games for us. It is always good to have one of top 5 fastest guys in league on your team and when he starts to hit and fight well that's it for me he is on my team all day and all night. His real issue is his hockey IQ as he has trouble fitting into lines. But on 3rd line he can create on his own. Which is a great skill to have.

I would keep Kappy over lots of different options on the team and off the team. Certainly there aren’t many players available that bring the mix he does for his cap hit. He’s cap efficiency in that regard.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Thats a whole lot of math to avoid the only real questions : Would you give a second for Clifford ? would you take a second for Clifford ?
I bet everyone answers NFW to question 1 and Heck yes to question 2 so knowing that resigning him costs us a second why are we even considering signing this plug at any price ? I'm totally in favour of manning up our lineup but you need to do that with skilled guys who are tough as nails, let the free cast off be free again for someone else .

I hope you realize Clifford is a top end 2nd rounder himself. And he can skate. And he can play on anyone's 4th line. At a MIL per he is very good value. On top of that he brings intangibles. No one f*cked with us after he came here. Between 3 amigos with Muzzy, Clifford and Drew. Who knows maybe we get Doughty too.

 

[Jozay]

They cant afford him.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

They cant afford him.

They couldn’t afford Tavares,Willy,Matthews and Marner either.

 

[Jozay]

They couldn’t afford Tavares,Willy,Matthews and Marner either.

Thats different because they always could afford all of them, people just wished they couldnt.

But theres no way it makes sense for the Leafs to pay a 4th liner over a million dollars..

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Thats different because they always could afford all of them, people just wished they couldnt.

But theres no way it makes sense for the Leafs to pay a 4th liner over a million dollars..

So Engvall should go too then

 

[Jozay]

So Engvall should go too then

Engvall will probably be in the top 9 next year

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Thats different because they always could afford all of them, people just wished they couldnt.

But theres no way it makes sense for the Leafs to pay a 4th liner over a million dollars..

Book it. Clifford is staying. The only reason it in't announced is because no one knows what CAP is yet. Listen to Shanny. It is fete accompli.

 

[Fogelhund]

I hope you realize Clifford is a top end 2nd rounder himself. And he can skate. And he can play on anyone's 4th line. At a MIL per he is very good value. On top of that he brings intangibles. No one f*cked with us after he came here. Between 3 amigos with Muzzy, Clifford and Drew. Who knows maybe we get Doughty too.

Kind of ugly on the forwards side now... Marner/Dermott for Doughty/Akil Thomas.

Ok, your guy Sissons got stuck on a line with Bracco and Robertson, so he better be able to man up with the smurfs on his line, and play D. Meanwhile, we throw two rookies out there, one who can pass like no tomorrow, and one who can shoot like no tomorrow.

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$81,500,000	$81,081,842	$0	$132,500	$418,158

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 1	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 4	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, LW UFA - 4
Mikheyev, Ilya $2,500,000 LW, RW RFA	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 5	Kapanen, Kasperi $3,200,000 RW RFA - 2
Robertson, Nicholas $850,000 LW RFA - 2	Sissons, Colton $2,857,143 RW, C UFA - 6	Bracco, Jeremy $900,000 RW RFA
Clifford, Kyle $1,500,000 LW UFA	Spezza, Jason $800,000 C, RW UFA	Thomas, Akil $809,166 C RFA - 2
Engvall, Pierre $1,250,000 LW, RW RFA - 2	Gauthier, Frédérik $750,000 C RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 2	Doughty, Drew $11,000,000 D NMC UFA - 7	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Muzzin, Jake $5,625,000 D NMC UFA - 4	Holl, Justin $2,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 3	Campbell, Jack $1,650,000 G UFA - 2
Sandin, Rasmus $894,167 D RFA - 2	Marincin, Martin $700,000 D UFA - 1
Rosén, Calle $750,000 D UFA - 1

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[JT AM da real deal]

Kind of ugly on the forwards side now... Marner/Dermott for Doughty/Akil Thomas.

Ok, your guy Sissons got stuck on a line with Bracco and Robertson, so he better be able to man up with the smurfs on his line, and play D. Meanwhile, we throw two rookies out there, one who can pass like no tomorrow, and one who can shoot like no tomorrow.

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$81,500,000	$81,081,842	$0	$132,500	$418,158

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 1	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 4	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, LW UFA - 4
Mikheyev, Ilya $2,500,000 LW, RW RFA	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 5	Kapanen, Kasperi $3,200,000 RW RFA - 2
Robertson, Nicholas $850,000 LW RFA - 2	Sissons, Colton $2,857,143 RW, C UFA - 6	Bracco, Jeremy $900,000 RW RFA
Clifford, Kyle $1,500,000 LW UFA	Spezza, Jason $800,000 C, RW UFA	Thomas, Akil $809,166 C RFA - 2
Engvall, Pierre $1,250,000 LW, RW RFA - 2	Gauthier, Frédérik $750,000 C RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 2	Doughty, Drew $11,000,000 D NMC UFA - 7	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Muzzin, Jake $5,625,000 D NMC UFA - 4	Holl, Justin $2,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 3	Campbell, Jack $1,650,000 G UFA - 2
Sandin, Rasmus $894,167 D RFA - 2	Marincin, Martin $700,000 D UFA - 1
Rosén, Calle $750,000 D UFA - 1

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To me that is a better lineup less Marincin please. At least we will have a top end defense for next 2 years. Then of course we better win 2 Cups because next few years we are old.

 

[Fogelhund]

To me that is a better lineup less Marincin please. At least we will have a top end defense for next 2 years. Then of course we better win 2 Cups because next few years we are old.

You are stuck with Marincin, he is cheap... and you hope that Liljegren is ready before the season ends... not the bone crushing guy you want, but he ends up being a good player for us LT.

 

[ULF_55]

He is as expected.

Probably won't be room for him anyway within their 9 forwards they can fit under the Cap.

 

[Stephen]

Clifford's ok. Definitely the kind of player we a couple more of, but I would also assume there's a good supply of these tough role players with size from Ontario we can convince to come home at a cheap price.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Even trading Johnsson for draft picks, and Kerfoot for Sissons... keeping Clifford at $1.5 mil... still over the cap, and still no improvement on D. It's going to be tricky, if the cap goes down, or stays the same... without some sort of concessions, or overage allowance.

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$81,500,000	$81,665,676	$0	$0	-$165,676

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 1	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 4	Marner, Mitchell $10,893,000 RW UFA - 5
Mikheyev, Ilya $2,500,000 LW, RW RFA	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 5	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, LW UFA - 4
Clifford, Kyle $1,500,000 LW UFA	Sissons, Colton $2,857,143 RW, C UFA - 6	Kapanen, Kasperi $3,200,000 RW RFA - 2
Engvall, Pierre $1,250,000 LW, RW RFA - 2	Spezza, Jason $800,000 C, RW UFA	Gauthier, Frédérik $750,000 C RFA
Malgin, Denis $750,000 RW, C RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 2	Dermott, Travis $2,500,000 D RFA	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Muzzin, Jake $5,625,000 D NMC UFA - 4	Holl, Justin $2,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 3	Campbell, Jack $1,650,000 G UFA - 2
Sandin, Rasmus $894,167 D RFA - 2	Marincin, Martin $700,000 D UFA - 1
Rosén, Calle $750,000 D UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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That would be the day i keep Malgin over Clifford. Bye malgin,by Marincin

 

[cannucky]

I h

I hope you realize Clifford is a top end 2nd rounder himself. And he can skate. And he can play on anyone's 4th line. At a MIL per he is very good value. On top of that he brings intangibles. No one f*cked with us after he came here. Between 3 amigos with Muzzy, Clifford and Drew. Who knows maybe we get Doughty too.

I Hope you realize the league is spitting out mid career players at a record pace , more and more draft picks are moving straight into the league and younger players are getting bigger deals forcing the middle and lower paid players down hard . Clifford was a great throw in but signing him ups the ante on the draft pick when we can get 3 more of him at league minimum or even off the waiver wire without changing the pick .

 

[cannucky]

I h

I hope you realize Clifford is a top end 2nd rounder himself. And he can skate. And he can play on anyone's 4th line. At a MIL per he is very good value. On top of that he brings intangibles. No one f*cked with us after he came here. Between 3 amigos with Muzzy, Clifford and Drew. Who knows maybe we get Doughty too.

I Hope you realize the league is flushing out mid career players at a record pace , more and more draft picks are moving straight into the league and younger players are getting bigger deals forcing the middle and lower paid players down hard . Clifford was a great throw in but re-signing him ups the ante on the draft pick when we can get 3 more of him at league minimum or even off the waiver wire without changing the pick .

 

[cannucky]

I h

I hope you realize Clifford is a top end 2nd rounder himself. And he can skate. And he can play on anyone's 4th line. At a MIL per he is very good value. On top of that he brings intangibles. No one f*cked with us after he came here. Between 3 amigos with Muzzy, Clifford and Drew. Who knows maybe we get Doughty too.

I Hope you realize the league is flushing out mid career players at a record pace , more and more draft picks are moving straight into the league and younger players are getting bigger deals forcing the middle and lower paid players down hard . Clifford was a great throw in but re-signing him ups the ante on the draft pick when we can get 3 more of him at league minimum or even off the waiver wire without changing the pick .

 

[Rogue Leader]

The only thing I saw in his game is passion ... really wonder how much Dubas is willing to pay for passion according to his Excel sheets. So far he doesn't really value grit, heart and passion.

 

[al secord]

intangibles

 

[Fogelhund]

That would be the day i keep Malgin over Clifford. Bye malgin,by Marincin

If you'd read what I had written previously, Malgin is just a name... and it's not relevant what name you put there. It's some minimum salary guy. It's not a choice of Marincin or Malgin... if they are gone, they get replaced with guys who are either minimum salary, or more. Not having Clifford is not about choosing other people over him, it's about whether we can afford Clifford at what is likely $1.6 plus, for a fourth liner...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

If you'd read what I had written previously, Malgin is just a name... and it's not relevant what name you put there. It's some minimum salary guy. It's not a choice of Marincin or Malgin... if they are gone, they get replaced with guys who are either minimum salary, or more. Not having Clifford is not about choosing other people over him, it's about whether we can afford Clifford at what is likely $1.6 plus, for a fourth liner...

Thats a 23 man roster too with no mention of emergency callup rules etc. If the cap goes down there will be allowances initiated to prevent hardship to all teams. Floor or budget teams are few and far between. Most are right up against it.

 

[Fogelhund]

The only thing I saw in his game is passion ... really wonder how much Dubas is willing to pay for passion according to his Excel sheets. So far he doesn't really value grit, heart and passion.

A blatant false and tired narrative.... this is the guy who has traded for Hyman, Muzzin and Clifford... he wants guys who can play hockey first.