Agent: Leafs, Clifford mutually interested in extension

[Tall Morty]

So let me get this straight. You harp on Dubas for all reasons related to toughness, and now you say pass?

Perhaps him resigning would blow your narrative, so you would rather keep that false narrative going?

Pathetic.

So let me get this straight. You harp on Dubas for all reasons related to toughness, and now you say pass?

Perhaps him resigning would blow your narrative, so you would rather keep that false narrative going?

Pathetic.

The burn so nice, he said it twice .

I liked having Clifford on the team, but it has to be for the right price. Are there other UFAs with a similar play-style available that wouldn’t cost us a 2nd round pick?

 

[ShaneFalco]

The burn so nice, he said it twice .

I liked having Clifford on the team, but it has to be for the right price. Are there other UFAs with a similar play-style available that wouldn’t cost us a 2nd round pick?

Not manu guys who are tough, can hit and take a regular shift effectively

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Not manu guys who are tough, can hit and take a regular shift effectively

Yep.
We need more 3rd and 4th liners like Clifford. One more minimum. All you have to do is watch Matty and Kappy play after Clifford and that is all that needs to be said. Done deal. Get er done Dubie.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Not manu guys who are tough, can hit and take a regular shift effectively

Yep.
We need more 3rd and 4th liners like Clifford. One more minimum. All you have to do is watch Matty and Kappy play after Clifford and that is all that needs to be said. Done deal. Get er done Dubie.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

A million or less ideally.

The guy's going to be walking a fine line between being useful and replaceable the rest of his career.

You expect him to come back for basically the high end of a entry level contract do you. Yeah not likely

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Deleteouble posted on me but i will say i expect him back for a couple years or 3. The guy plays a solid game and and is involved in smart hockey while he is on the ice. He’s not a sideshow either, there are certain things he’s not going to let go but adds that warrior tone for our skill players. I would definitely like to see him back

Definitely worth $5,000,000 for three years.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You expect him to come back for basically the high end of a entry level contract do you. Yeah not likely

We are fine really. Dermy and Mik first on bridges. then Clifford. then Spezza.
We don't need AJ he is completely dead weight and easily replaced cheaper by Kork or Robertsen.
We don't need Kerfoot either if push comes to shove on CAP but I'm sure Dubie will keep him due to ego on trade. I really don't know what he provides on da ice except wheels. I would rather have another defender who can defend. If Kerfoot gets moved as well as AJ then you will know that Dubie fully gets it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Agent: Leafs, Clifford mutually interested in extension

While we need this type of player(s) and he should come relatively cheap. Not sure hes really impressed me.
Thoughts?

Finally some good news!

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I'm a pass. He hasnt been impressive enough to give up a 2nd. We could just sign another gritty tough guy that won't cost us a valuable pick.

 

[lottster14]

Good. So far he hasn't played here like he did in LA. He's always been a tough guy (even throwing is something he's done only occasionally here) but he also is a grinding, pesty player who can control the puck along the boards. He hasn't had his game back so far in Toronto. I witnessed a kings fan maybe a month ago surprised at how bad he's been with us.

So Good news all around

 

[Spargon]

Meh, long as it is cheap I'm fine with it. For how pumped up his style of game was outside of a couple scuffles dude has been pretty much invisible.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I'm a pass. He hasnt been impressive enough to give up a 2nd. We could just sign another gritty tough guy that won't cost us a valuable pick.

 

[ACC1224]

I'd take the player back but not at the cost of a 2nd.
That clause in the trade wasn't great.

 

[Hogan86]

Obviously I'd love to have his grit back on our 4th line wing, but with the cap situation being so questionable, and Clifford probably looking for a multi year deal not below 1 mil AAV, I dont see how it make much sense.

 

[Mess]

I'd take the player back but not at the cost of a 2nd.
That clause in the trade wasn't great.

Considering Buffalo gave up a 5th round pick for Wayne Simmonds (a better player), then giving up a 3rd for Clifford is already an overpayment, and resigning him and that pick becoming a 2nd rounder instead makes it even worse.

Leafs need more toughness that is certain, however it has to come at a price that makes sense both financially and in asset cost.

Considering Leafs already gave away their 1st last year, and already made a bad trade to deal away their 1st this year, then investing a 2nd in Clifford for a 4th liner is really starting to mortgage Leafs future at a high cost.

 

[ACC1224]

Considering Buffalo gave up a 5th round pick for Wayne Simmonds (a better player), then giving up a 3rd for Clifford is already an overpayment, and resigning him and that pick becoming a 2nd rounder instead makes it even worse.

Leafs need more toughness that is certain, however it has to come at a price that makes sense both financially and in asset cost.

Considering Leafs already gave away their 1st last year, and already made a bad trade to deal away their 1st this year, then investing a 2nd in Clifford for a 4th liner is really starting to mortgage Leafs future at a high cost.

Yeah it seemed a little shortsighted considering the 1st given away.
The trade did include Campbell though which was great but the backup should have been addressed much sooner.
Dubas didn't put himself in a good spot to make this trade.

 

[hotpaws]

I'd have no problem with re signing him to a 2yr contract for something around 1.25m per if he'd accept it but he isn't worth bringing back since he'd cost us 30 spots in the draft .

 

[Hogan86]

Even at league minimum, we still lose our pick if he resigns, and hes going to want a multi year deal. I like the edge Clifford brings, but that is literally it. He has brought 0 offense, and a lot of nights he hasn't even beem noticeable. With the cap situation so uncertain, there is no way we can afford a 4th line grinder making more than 1mil AAV, and lose our 2nd rounder in the process.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Considering Buffalo gave up a 5th round pick for Wayne Simmonds (a better player)

No it shows you how much Simmonds has declined. He is far from the better player

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Considering Buffalo gave up a 5th round pick for Wayne Simmonds (a better player), then giving up a 3rd for Clifford is already an overpayment, and resigning him and that pick becoming a 2nd rounder instead makes it even worse.

Leafs need more toughness that is certain, however it has to come at a price that makes sense both financially and in asset cost.

Considering Leafs already gave away their 1st last year, and already made a bad trade to deal away their 1st this year, then investing a 2nd in Clifford for a 4th liner is really starting to mortgage Leafs future at a high cost.

You can't put a price on a guy who is bedrock. A guy who knows how to win Cups. A guy who just by being there influences other guys on our team like Matty and Kappy.
The silver lining here is the 2021 draft based on what I'm hearing really sucks. So losing a 2nd rounder like losing a 4th rounder most years.
Losing our 2020 1st rounder now that hurt real bad. The 2020 draft is likely to go minimum 2 rounds deep with NHLers and even quite a few 3rd rounders. Not a lot of TOP elite level guys but really deep with 2nd 3rd and 4th liners.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I'm a pass. He hasnt been impressive enough to give up a 2nd. We could just sign another gritty tough guy that won't cost us a valuable pick.

They are valuable for sure. Looking far out is still the way management will be looking. There are so many ways to recoup picks that is fluid over the course of years.

That said, they do have decisions to make effecting present team balance. I think he is a needed player now for balance. I’m pretty sure he looks at his age and opportunity with a solid group and signs a fair deal that works for everyone.

I said in a earlier post above that he is not a sideshow but knows when to lay in to somebody if they are running around at our stars. Do we really believe that the liberties teams took with us over a period predating Clifford is something we can accept again for the sake of 31 positions in a draft. There are many solid players still available in round three too.

I definitely see a important function for him with us and actually would like a couple more physical players that are players that don’t take crap and keep teams honest that play us.

He is a solid player also. Takes good ice and forechecks well. He’d be the right signing i believe.

 

[Mess]

Yeah it seemed a little shortsighted considering the 1st given away.
The trade did include Campbell though which was great but the backup should have been addressed much sooner.
Dubas didn't put himself in a good spot to make this trade.

Had Campbell won 1 more regular season game his 3rd round pick would have triggered a 2nd rounder as that was also a condition, with Leafs making the playoffs. Had that happened then Clifford could have been resigned and his cost remained at a 3rd which was his acquisition cost.

** 2021 conditional round round pick (second round if Clifford re-signs with Maple Leafs, or if Maple Leafs qualify for 2020 playoffs and Campbell wins 6 regular season games) (?-?) on 2020-02-05.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I'd have no problem with re signing him to a 2yr contract for something around 1.25m per if he'd accept it but he isn't worth bringing back since he'd cost us 30 spots in the draft .

That would be a great signing at that price. Who knows what the cap looks like later. I’d make it three or 4 years if he would take that kind of money.

I was thinking right off top of my head when i seen the post 3 years at $5,000,000 total.

 

[deletethis]

3 thoughts:

1. Re-signing Clifford may also be Dubas maintaining the "spirit" of the deal in that a 2nd was going back to Los Angeles if the deal for Campbell AND Clifford was measurably beneficial (making the playoffs with Campbell winning 6 games). The aborted season makes the measures invalid when it's obvious that Campbell had been making a big difference.
2. The cost of re-signing the player isn't a 2nd for Clifford. It's a 2nd for Clifford and 3rd.
3. Instead of using 2 or 3 draft picks per draft (like Burke did) trying to hit the jackpot on drafting a Clifford, Dubas is spending a single draft pick acquiring this type of player.

All of the above said, the Leafs need a few players like Clifford: rugged, committed, low maintenance personality, not a defensive liability. These type of rugged players where you can send them out on the ice and not worry about them aren't as common as some think they are. There would be a cost to acquiring that type of player during this season anyways.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Kings
Traded • Jack Campbell • Kyle Clifford to Maple Leafs for • Trevor Moore • 2020 third round pick (?-?) • 2021 conditional round round pick (second round if Clifford re-signs with Maple Leafs or if Maple Leafs qualify for 2020 playoffs and Campbell wins 6 regular season games

So the pick transfers out a year also to the 2021 draft if we sign him. We still have our second round pick this year

 

[Deebo]

No it shows you how much Simmonds has declined. He is far from the better player

Also, Jack Campbell exists and was in the deal, and is signed for 2 additional seasons.

Campbell was the reason the trade was made and to not consider that as part of the return is deliberately trying to make the deal sound worse.