Agent: Leafs, Clifford mutually interested in extension

[Legion34]

Close to home and family and his buddy Muzzy and their wives ... the gig is up in LA they are breaking it up ... wait to see if the third amigo comes from LA but he will likely be too expensive on our CAP ... but you never know AJ, Rielly and a Bracco who knows it is not beyond realm of possibility but I still don't think it is wise ... then we have to win Cup in 2-3 years

who were the big friends in LA?

muzzin, Clifford, doughty?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

who were the big friends in LA?

muzzin, Clifford, doughty?

Yep but that would require a major trade for a guy who is 30 with 6 years left on a monster 11M contract ... to me I think it is too risky a move to give up Rielly ... i would personally not do it. It forces us into a WIN now scenario for next 2-3 years.

 

[Merrrlin]

Seriously? Clifford brings a certain skill-set to this team that is hard to find in today's NHL. Toughness, grit, he can hit, skate and contribute positively. He's versatile too. Those aren't dime a dozen players

Agreed. Dime a dozen better fits the Timashov/Moore types. Clifford brings more than they did.

 

[Rogue Leader]

There is a VERY VERY large difference in playing with heart and playing with grit.
Can't say Tavares or Marner lack heart. Sorry. This is totally incorrect.

You are right! I stand corrected!!!

 

[Al14]

You are right! I stand corrected!!!

I'm just thankful that you can stand, never mind being correct.

 

[Rogue Leader]

I'm just thankful that you can stand, never mind being correct.

You rule!!!

 

[Menzinger]

While id rather not lose the pick, by all media accounts you read he seems incredibly well liked in the room.

He + Muzzin could help lay the foundation of the type of attitudes Leafs players are supposed to have.

His underlying numbers historically have beeb good too. As long as the aav isnt too high, theres nothing to complain about him being in the bottom 6

 

[Menzinger]

Today I read that Brenden wanted Clifford re-signed. My question
is does Dubass want him back. And if not re-signed does that put
a wrench between Brenden and Kyle?

I doubt it.

He wouldnt be a Leaf if Dubas hadnt traded for him to begin with. And seemingly Shanny and Dubas have been on the same page (from an outsider POV anyways) on most issues

 

[Menzinger]

Except he's not that great a skater and his hands are terrible , he's 29 years old and played all 11 years of his pro career on the 4th line , he's never cracked a top 9 let alone a top 6 slot and thers zero chance of him ever getting any better . Better guys than him are a dime a dozen , we could have had Kovalchuk twice this year for nothing signed at league minimum but passed , just because our mangement team and your expert eyes don't see these guys doesn't mean they aren't out there and if you think Clifford is fit to even carry Kovi's jock strap then theres really no point discussing anything with you , you'll just drag me down to your level and beat me with experience . We unfortunatley will probably re-sign this pylon not because of any perceived ability on his part but rather because he was Dumbas's first client as an agent . 61 goals 132 points in the NHL over an 11 year career ! yeah thats the guy we should piss away picks and cap to re-sign riiiiiiight .

His puck control underlying numbers are actually pretty decent.

Hes not a guy thats going to put up points, but "skills" go beyond shooting and playmaking

 

[Kiwi]

While id rather not lose the pick, by all media accounts you read he seems incredibly well liked in the room.

He + Muzzin could help lay the foundation of the type of attitudes Leafs players are supposed to have.

His underlying numbers historically have beeb good too. As long as the aav isnt too high, theres nothing to compalon about him being in the bottom 6

If the cap is flat, goes down or even slightly increases there's plenty to complain about if we end up paying a 4th liner 1M+ with our cap structure

That's not even getting into giving up a 2nd for the privilege of signing him instead of just losing a 3rd

I know he's a good Room guy and he is willing to fight but we don't have any leeway to spend on "intangibles" because of how Managment decided to structure our cap resources

 

[kb]

If the cap is flat, goes down or even slightly increases there's plenty to complain about if we end up paying a 4th liner 1M+ with our cap structure

That's not even getting into giving up a 2nd for the privilege of signing him instead of just losing a 3rd

I know he's a good Room guy and he is willing to fight but we don't have any leeway to spend on "intangibles" because of how Managment decided to structure our cap resources

I'm not overly concerned with the difference between drafting 50th vs 80th if you get him signed om the dotted line for a reasonable number.

Johnsson at $3.4 million, or Engvall and Clifford for $2.8 million?

 

[Menzinger]

If the cap is flat, goes down or even slightly increases there's plenty to complain about if we end up paying a 4th liner 1M+ with our cap structure

That's not even getting into giving up a 2nd for the privilege of signing him instead of just losing a 3rd

I know he's a good Room guy and he is willing to fight but we don't have any leeway to spend on "intangibles" because of how Managment decided to structure our cap resources

Im expecting the team to shed salary even if Clifford isnt signed.

 

[Kiwi]

I'm not overly concerned with the difference between drafting 50th vs 80th if you get him signed om the dotted line for a reasonable number.

Johnsson at $3.4 million, or Engvall and Clifford for $2.8 million?

I've been on Cap Friendly, even if you move Johnsson without taking back any salary and don't improve the defensive unit you still can't afford to give a 4th liner a 1.5M AAV

It just doesn't work without a sizable cap jump, I still think a defensive improvement should be the first cab off the rank with any available cap resources as well rather than a 4th liner

Im expecting the team to shed salary even if Clifford isnt signed.

They will, that still doesn't mean you can fit Clifford or that he's what we should be putting limited cap resources towards

 

[Leaf Fans]

Close to home and family and his buddy Muzzy and their wives ... the gig is up in LA they are breaking it up ... wait to see if the third amigo comes from LA but he will likely be too expensive on our CAP ... but you never know AJ, Rielly and a Bracco who knows it is not beyond realm of possibility but I still don't think it is wise ... then we have to win Cup in 2-3 years

He can sign a good deal with Toronto.

 

[grapes55]

I ~like~ Clifford, but I really don't think he's worth the extra second we'd have to give up. The SDP mentioned a rumor that Clifford was looking at 3 years at 2 million per, if true he would be way too pricey to play 4th line for this team.

 

[Halla]

as others have said it would have to be cheap. 1-1.2 tops. at that # the leafs may be ok with the 3rd to 2nd pick downgrade

If he is looking for anything close to the awful deal Lou gave matt martin (10mil/4 years) not a chance. Leafs can be happy they stole Campbell for a pair of 3rds essentially

 

[Halla]

I ~like~ Clifford, but I really don't think he's worth the extra second we'd have to give up. The SDP mentioned a rumor that Clifford was looking at 3 years at 2 million per, if true he would be way too pricey to play 4th line for this team.

its not an extra 2nd. its a 3rd that turns into a 2nd. essentially pick 50 instead of pick 80

 

[member 300185]

Its Dubas. Cliffords agent is all smiles right now.

Clifford- 5 years at 9 million per.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Agreed. Dime a dozen better fits the Timashov/Moore types. Clifford brings more than they did.

He also brings the experience that comes with winning cups...

 

[Iapyi]

We are fine really. Dermy and Mik first on bridges. then Clifford. then Spezza.
We don't need AJ he is completely dead weight and easily replaced cheaper by Kork or Robertsen.
We don't need Kerfoot either if push comes to shove on CAP but I'm sure Dubie will keep him due to ego on trade. I really don't know what he provides on da ice except wheels. I would rather have another defender who can defend. If Kerfoot gets moved as well as AJ then you will know that Dubie fully gets it.

Can you please explain how a player who has at least played in the NHL for 125 games, which gives us a view as to what he is at that level, can be "easily" replaced by players who have never played even 1 game?

Seems like a hasty conclusion to me.

As for Clifford, he is that player type we need so it really depends on the money aspect.

As for those saying his cost is a 2nd, they are wrong.

His cost is the difference between a 3rd and a 2nd as we are already losing at least a 3rd.

What is the cost between a 3rd and a 2nd in the upcoming draft?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Can you please explain how a player who has at least played in the NHL for 125 games, which gives us a view as to what he is at that level, can be "easily" replaced by players who have never played even 1 game?

Seems like a hasty conclusion to me.

As for Clifford, he is that player type we need so it really depends on the money aspect.

As for those saying his cost is a 2nd, they are wrong.

His cost is the difference between a 3rd and a 2nd as we are already losing at least a 3rd.

What is the cost between a 3rd and a 2nd in the upcoming draft?

The pick slides a year and is not this draft if he signs back with us. Basically the rule of thumb is that drafting is not a scientific endeavour beyond the top elite players of that draft.

Then your mid first round picks are in clusters of variables as to who is taken and then late firsts and early 2nd round picks clustered together with no clue who will be picked etc the rest of the way. Some drafts are stronger than others and thats always hindsight.

There is this best player available understanding and agreement out there but every team have different lists as to who is the best next player up. A third or a second rounder depends on hindsight no matter what anyone tells you

would you personally prefer Fairbrother or Hellison from last years draft? Yeah them guys who

here is a draft do- over in this link. Check out how the very top of the draft is completely non scientific. Thats crap shoot beyond the very obvious top pick is still hard to fathom.

Backdraft 2006: Redoing the top 10 picks from the '06 NHL draft - TheHockeyNews

I don’t even pay attention to the b.s. from posters claiming they supposedly know a 2nd is way more value than a 3 rd round pick. They don’t know that

 

[Iapyi]

The pick slides a year and is not this draft if he signs back with us. Basically the rule of thumb is that drafting is not a scientific endeavour beyond the top elite players of that draft.

Then your mid first round picks are in clusters of variables as to who is taken and then late firsts and early 2nd round picks clustered together with no clue who will be picked etc the rest of the way. Some drafts are stronger than others and thats always hindsight.

There is this best player available understanding and agreement out there but every team have different lists as to who is the best next player up. A third or a second rounder depends on hindsight no matter what anyone tells you

would you personally prefer Fairbrother or Hellison from last years draft? Yeah them guys who

Exactly. That's why signing him and having the draft pick move from a 3rd to a 2nd doesn't really matter in the big picture.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Exactly. That's why signing him and having the draft pick move from a 3rd to a 2nd doesn't really matter in the big picture.

Maybe we could say the difference between the draft pick is that one is a known (Clifford) and the other is unknown ( the pick). Under this valuation i take the known and need for the more favourable odds of making the right decision

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I'm not giving up a 2nd rounder for him. Should've learned our lesson from Boyle and Plekanec. I'd rather just sign Reaves if all we want is a tough guy.

 

[ToMaLe]

I'm not overly concerned with the difference between drafting 50th vs 80th if you get him signed om the dotted line for a reasonable number.

Johnsson at $3.4 million, or Engvall and Clifford for $2.8 million?

Just thrown out this hypothetical thought going by last years picks, would you be ok with trading Robertson for Kokkonen and Clifford?