Accountability and transparency of referrees

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Lebowski, Jun 19, 2021.

  1. FrozenJagrt Registered User

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    Baseball umps do it. NBA refs do it. Haven't watched NFL or any soccer in years so I can't speak to that or other pro leagues.
     
  2. abo9 Registered User

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    What I mean is that the players take so much liberties because the whistles are away all game.

    But for the refs its easy to di game management i that case, because they know a team taking the lead will still provide them ample opportunities for a penalty to be called...

    problem is, they dont call some blatant stuff. Then when it's favorable to game management they call weaker stuff
     
  3. Rufus T Firefly Registered User

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    The amount of ref apologists in here convoluting the OP's post is annoying.

    Essentially it's just asking for an improvement to and accountability of the standard of reffing in the NHL -- which is abysmal. People aren't asking for perfection from referees, so all the "they're human and prone to mistakes" arguments are strawman arguments, as it's consistency people want, not perfection. Similarly, all the "well, then there will be 30 penalties a game" arguments are also way off base, as we saw post-lockout when the rules changed and they cracked down on interference and holding, or when they cracked down on slashing once Gaudreau and Calgary brought it up. Players adjust to rule changes: you don't see goaltenders playing the puck outside the trapezoid anymore do you? And again, "the reffing has always been bad" arguments are useless as that's no excuse not to fix something that needs fixing. That's essentially saying you can't drive because your car is broken and don't care to fix your car.

    All people want is for the refs to find a standard and stick to it. If only they had like a book or something full of instructions about how to do their job that they could follow.... Every fan should be in favor of consistent reffing and know what to expect from the officials instead of the distracting, detrimental and whimsical decisions from the referees that has become standard in the NHL. People would complain less if there was a rubric to follow. But reffing -- like goalie interference, like the DoPS decisions -- is a incomprehensible shot in the dark in the NHL and ruins the game.
     
  4. ClydeLee Registered User

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    And you get the hockey ref union to agree to anything like that by what?

    You need a holdout battle that, 1 I don't think the NHL has the drive, desire, or confidence to do like the NFL when they tried. And 2 as we saw in the NFL's failure, people will freak out even harder on replacement refs and see how much worse it could be when things get out of hand and you get even worse borderline calls
     
  5. ducky Registered User

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    Yes a call was missed. That happens. It did look like the stick hit Perry in the chest though. They can't call it after seeing he was cut.
     
  6. ducky Registered User

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    The rules have to be interpreted in real time. It is not simple nor easy. Other sports have this dilemma too but hockey is so fast.

    Consistency is an issue for sure.

    Thinking a ref (refs) are purposely benefitting one team is just being a fan of the other team.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
    Avelanche likes this.
  7. cowboy82nd Registered User

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    Never said the bolded part but I get what you are saying. I'm just saying, if we have rules in the rule book that are not called, why are they in there?
     
  8. dahrougem2 Registered User

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    Not anything remotely close to the NHL's lack of calling penalties from the regular season to the playoffs. Nothing in professional sports comes close. No sport changes its rules from regular season to playoffs.
     
  9. Saltcreek Registered User

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    This is hand waving the problem away. Officiating in the NHL is probably the worst in any pro sport. Not only is it not consistent but the amount of missed calls is ridiculous. If the refs were held accountable for their games then you would see an improvement but until the NHL actually forces the refs to so their jobs properly we are stuck with this joke of a game.

    While I agree that it is rare that a ref will consistently have a bias against a team over a season i can think of a couple instances where this was true. Guess what would have prevented it? Accountability!
     
  10. ducky Registered User

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    I would opine the rules need to be more well defined. Maybe there is too much room for interpretation by the refs?

    Consider the only cut and dried rule - the puck over the glass. In an intense playoff game all kinds of infractions are ignored but that one can't be (except in the last minute of a WJC gold medal game).

    Roughing, slashing, tripping, charging etc are all very much up to interpretation by the refs.
     
  11. ducky Registered User

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    Not opposed to more accountability.
     
  12. Rufus T Firefly Registered User

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    I think it's important to note the influence that the officials' union has, but that influence should be overvalued. The NHL and the NHLPA have a lot more influence than the ref's union in determining how the game is played. Just because they present a problem for changing the game doesn't mean they are a permanent roadblock to that change. So I don't see the necessity of a holdout in order to facilitate change, as the NHL should have more than enough negotiating power to influence the outcome they want without needing to use that option.

    Like the crackdown on interference and holding post-lockout and slashing following Calgary's complaints -- it is quite clear that the game can be changed if the NHL wants it to be changed. That is the issue more than anything. And that is what is most annoying: that this is tolerated to the detriment of the sport.

    Besides, the refs' union should be in favor of a clearer set of rules, so that there would be less subjectivity in their decisions. That would make their work easier, as it would be clearer: a slash is a slash all the time, instead of having to be constantly evaluated depending on the time and current score. Clearer guidelines make it easier for the refs to do their jobs and lessen the amount of personal accountability for the individual refs and the decisions they make.

    It should be hate the rule not the ref, but at the moment it is hate the ref not the rule.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  13. Captain97 Registered User

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    Did you see the missed call on Corey Perry in game 3? And the called hook on Suzuki?
     
  14. P10p Registered User

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    This just in, people have a false sense of entitlement in 2021, more at 9.
     
  15. Lacaar Registered User

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    This is just the cycle of the game it seems.

    The NHL cracks down on obstruction.
    1. Refs call the game more in tune with how most would understand the rule book.
    2. Players bitch about too many calls, Fans bitch about too many calls, Gms bitch about too many calls.
    3. Skilled hockey teams start to dominate as teams are forced to adapt. Smaller players come back in style.
    4. After enough bitching the refs are told to relax the rules. Or maybe their told to relax them to slow the game down because too many concussions as well.
    5. Coaches catch on and formulate game plans around these relaxed rules. Basically.. hook and hold away. we'll take the odd penalty as it's worth it to get the get out of jail free card that comes with it.
    6. Slowly the game gets taken back over by the bigger players as they can leverage them much better than small players. See Sam Girard trying to x check someone compared to Shea Weber.
    7 Nobody knows wtf a penalty is anymore because quite frankly all the teams commit about a bazillion a game.

    In all honesty they should probably just call a spade a spade and remove some of the rules from the book.
    Cross checking, interference, hooking, holding, slashing. Just get rid of them so we all know at least.

    It is weird having a different rule book for minor hockey and pro hockey. But at least we can admit it and move one and make sense of the pro game.
     
  16. Avelanche #freeRedmond

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    All of the rules are interpretive. Even the perry high stick, looks obvious but refs have to make a split second decision if the guy who spent his career diving actually got hit in the face.
     
  17. ArGarBarGar Defense Please

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    Held accountable how?
     
  18. AvroArrow #LeafsFanWhoLostABet

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    I wish I could do my job horrifically on a daily basis and still get paid my normal salary and protected by my boss from criticism.
     
  19. Choralone Registered User

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    Their home address should be published for angry fans to visit. If their refereeing crimes are especially heinous, they should have a locater beacon on them so they can be tracked down even if they're trying to take a dump at Mimi's Cafe.
     
  20. tarheelhockey Offside Review Specialist

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    If they call everything, people complain. If they call nothing, people complain. If they pick and choose, people complain.

    You bet your ass that at some point a crew has called a literally perfect game, and nobody noticed. Those refs got booed just the same as any other night.

    Like a lot of people, I want to see things called a bit more tightly in the playoffs. But that's not really a solution to the problem of fan outrage. The league has very little motivation to take action, because nothing is ever going to move the needle with regard to people finding things to be upset about in a competitively charged environment. So they'll act in the interest of the people they can influence, which is owners and GMs who take material action behind the scenes when they're mad about borderline calls that alter playoff games.
     
  21. Jetsfan79 Registered User

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    The problem with the premise of the OP is that its mainly the referees that need to be held accountable. Refs are not perfect but I believe they are acting in accordance to what the NHL wants. There needs to be a total paradigm shift from the NHL leadership on how they instruct their officials before any meaningful change happens.
     
  22. JeffreyLFC Registered User

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    In the superbowl of all games... the NFL did not balanced out penalties even if it's a preseason game or championship game... They just call it as it is. The NHL should just do the same.
     
  23. yukoner88 Registered User

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    They should go back to one ref calling general penalties instead of 2. It gets rid of clashing styles of refs, and it forces the one guy to call the game correctly to his standards. It's much easier to communicate your style of calling when there isn't someone you're stunning toes with.

    With all the replay we have no a days, and linesman have always had the ability to call major penalties on things that happen behind the play the the main ref may end up missing.

    Officiating has been on this downward slide of quality ever since the 2 man system was implemented
     
  24. ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    Hard to enjoy this game when the reffing is such a joke.

    This is why the NHL will never be a major sport.

    The reffing makes the VAR look like a genius idea lmao
     

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