Accountability and transparency of referrees

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Lebowski, Jun 19, 2021.

  1. Xanlet Registered User

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    Speaking of baseball...

    It's always amazing to me how obvious it is that professional sports leagues purposely favor certain teams for business reasons, yet so many fans trip over themselves to run cover for them. Results are either nudged or outright pushed in certain directions by league officials. The evidence is overwhelming.
     
  2. gstommylee Registered User

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    Just about any sport has their share of terrible officials/refs, Basketball, Soccer, baseball, football and hockey all have them. I seen my share of crappy officiated games that go against my sports teams. I seen one sided called games.
     
  3. abo9 Registered User

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    It's so painfully obvious that "letting the guys play" is just a cover to make them conplacent and then its easy to call a penslty whenever you need it to the team you want

    theres nothing to do about it. Big slash in the face = nothing
    Small love tap on the shoulder = hooking

    both are penalties, but obly made sense to call for the ref...
     
  4. gstommylee Registered User

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    The issue is two sided and doesn't have a simple solution. There's a fine line between calling penalties when it happens and calling penalties to the point of the player can't even do anything with out the refs calling blowing the whistle on some infraction.
     
  5. ItsFineImFine Registered User

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    You can read Ken Dryden's book from the 70s, it's part of NHL culture and Bettman and Daly don't seem to care to change it. Fact is there's no transparency or little accountability because the director of reffing is not some independent department and it's overseen by Hockey Ops (same as the DoPS) and Hockey Ops is run by Colin Campbell who is iboth a dinosaur and has been in charge of it for a long time.

    The same people run the game and think it's fine and think it's normal so this is the normal we get as a result.
     
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  6. Machinehead No1BS

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    That would be a lot easier without a mechanism designed to make games artificially close.

    Close games are good and all, but I'd rather the product be legit.
     
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  7. gstommylee Registered User

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    The other leagues are the same. NFL is pretty bad to where some don't like being told how they should call the games and just don't call it. One of the conference final game in the NFL came down to 1 non call that changed the out come and got a rule change and 2 years ago that same situation that caused the rule change to happen the officials just don't bother to call it.
     
  8. gstommylee Registered User

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    Again goes to the fine line between letting everything go to calling it so tight that it actually slows down the game. Its just a matter of finding the proper balance. Game management isn't something that will ever go away in sports no matter what league it is.
     
  9. Sidney the Kidney Missing Link

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    The problem isn't that everything needs to be called, it's that they let even the most egregious of offenses go.

    You want to let a tiny little hook that didn't affect the play at all go? No problem. But when a guy is trying to drive to the net and he has a defender water skiing on him and it's still not called, that's suddenly a problem.

    You want to let a guy get away with one single crosscheck in front of the net and give him a verbal warning of "do it a second time and you're gone"? No problem. When when a defenseman is allowed to take multiple crosschecks to the back of a player, follow it up by face washing when said player turns around to tell him off, and the ref STILL doesn't call him? That's an issue.

    Do I want 15 PPs per game? No. But if a team is committing so many egregious fouls that it warrants 5 or 6 PPs in a game? Yes, call that. Don't let 4 of them go just so you can say you're "letting them play".

    So no, it's not quite as black and white as you suggest in your first paragraph. It's not about "calling everything" instead. It's about calling the egregious ones, including the Perry high stick, while "managing" the game by giving the players a bit of leeway on plays that don't really affect a play in any tangible way.
     
  10. IdontSpitOnTheIce Registered User

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    The officiating in the vegas vs mtl serie is bad and has nothing to do with game management. The plays speak for themselves.
     
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  11. Machinehead No1BS

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    It's not a matter of finding balance. There are rules. Call them.
     
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  12. Whoshattenkirkshoes Registered User

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    Somedays the hit from behind gets called and the stick tap doesn't. Hockey is inconsistent.

    What is a cross check?
    What is a penalty?

    NO one knows
     
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  13. Oddbob Registered User

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    Why do people act like the reffing is so bad or any worse that it has ever been? Watched hockey for over 30 years and every single year the league has been around the refs will get pretty big things wrong, and this year is no worse or has more bad calls than any other year. People act like these refs are not human, but robots who call games with 15 slo-mo replays in their heads before the plays happen. This game is quick and only so much can be seen and called, and HUMAN BEINGS will make mistakes. Do all these constant bellyachers go to work each day and work perfectly at insane speed? Do they never have bad days? Things always go beautifully?

    Players get scrutinized because they make many times more than they should to play a game, and linesmen and refs very likely don't get paid all that well. Not only that, they can never win, as even when they make the correct call, the offending teams fans will hate it.
     
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  14. Oddbob Registered User

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    If the refs called every thing that technically should be called, there would be 20-30 stoppages for penalties every single period. Lots of hooking and light slashing is technically a penalty and I for one, don't want to watch a game where each team has 10-15 PP/game and the game takes 9 hours because of all the stoppages and penalty call reviews.
     
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  15. gstommylee Registered User

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    And calling them the rules exactly as written word by word = 20 to 30+penalities a game. The rules also state its at the disgression of the ice officials. there lies the issue. no league ever follows its own rules exaclty.

    All i want is a consistant balanced called game between when penalities should be called and the officials letting the players plays.

    What i do not want is no constisentcy, too much of letting them and too much penalty calling and the game get dragged on for far too long.
     
  16. gstommylee Registered User

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    people need to look at the officails as a fan of the game not as a fan of a certain team or teams
     
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  17. Oddbob Registered User

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    Also, put themselves in the refs shoes, as it would be very hard to catch everything and be consistent. It is a hard thankless job, that always pisses someone off.
     
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  18. gstommylee Registered User

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    One thing i cant stand is the constant whining at the officials. i dealt with it in the other sports too. its ruins the enjoyment of the sport regardless if the fans are right or wrong. Its all part of the game. its not fun to see other fans ruin the enjoyment of the game over something we have no control over. The only ones that can do something about it are the 32 owners, the folks that are really in charge of the league, not the league execs. The execs do what the owners tell them to do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  19. PettersonHughes Registered User

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    OP, being a ref is subjective in certain cases (e.g. Landeskog's toe-pick incident, vs. him being called diving) so for those there's really no way to have absolute fairness, since even if there's a Dept. of Penalty Reviews the headperson would still be subjective and it still might not go with what you or other fans individually may think the call should've been. There's really no metric and sometimes it does make sense that they want to balance things out (e.g. letting a hard hit go uncalled after the other team threw a borderline hit first, or letting a slash/ hook go for both teams). Reason being, as much as they should be making calls by the book, sometimes they still make calls due to the flow of the game, and there's really no 100% objective calls.
     
  20. MikeyMike01 U.S.S. Wang

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    Totally false. The NFL has the same situation with offensive/defensive holding and pass interference.
     
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  21. Machinehead No1BS

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    There's a big difference between that, calling a reasonable amount of penalties, and the Roman Colosseum bloodsport we get in the playoffs at times.

    Just come up with something and be consistent with whatever that is. Stop reacting to the game that's being played. That's not what their job is.
     
  22. Bauer Shill Registered User

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    I don't think he got off easy seeing as he was only doing what his bosses told him to do. 25 years of reffing, and still people will only remember him for one single game. The league ruined his entire professional legacy.
     
  23. cowboy82nd Registered User

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    Then why have a rule book? If a rule is broken, a penalty should be called. If not, then why even have the rule?
     
  24. bacon25 Unenthusiastic User

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    I don't even know why they bother having an ump call pitches when they have a camera system now that show's if a ball is a strike or not.
     
  25. DonM The Industrial Revolution and its consequences

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    Do you want to be ticketed every time you jaywalk? Should failing to claim a 20 dollar bill you found on the ground on your taxes lead to you being charged with tax fraud? Our justice system recognizes the need for discretion in administering laws, the same is true in hockey. The primary goal of the NHL is to produce entertaining games, and the games should be called in furtherance of that goal. I personally don't think the game is improved by calling a penalty for a player crosschecking another in front of the net, or for slight interference on zone entries. You could find enough infractions to have the majority of the game played on special teams, and no one benefits from that. There's room for discussion on whether they've let too much go, or that they've missed things that should never be let go, but the answer certainly isn't to call everything.
     
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