Proposal: Acceptable Trouba trade

[voyageur]

That is possible. It is also possible that he is just bad defensively.

You could have said that about Justin Schultz not too long ago. He has a couple of rings now.

There are two defensemen, for those who watch closely, who injured
Lowry last season, in contact. One was Derek Engelland, the first was Ristolainen. The guy is solid. I actually think it would be a good trade for both teams. Trouba gets to be a #1, Ristolainen plays for a competitive team, and his style of play fits Maurice's game plan. And Chevy's.

I think there are several factors at play: Trouba's play, Myers health, Poolman's development, and Roslovic's play at centre, and health at the position of centre, which is thin, like our goaltending depth. Trouba could be traded for a good centre and d prospect and fill a couple of holes, if we need to go that route.

 

[Trilliann]

Risto is not just plain horrible:

• He is 23 and already has played 5 NHL seasons
• He's a high first rounder that was not picked out of place.
• He is big and can be physical
• He has 151 points already in the NHL - averaging over 40 points a year the past 3 years.
• He is playing on one of the worst modern day NHL teams.

Sure, he has a lot of room for improvement, but being that age and expected to lead a terrible team from the back end isn't something many guys fare well with.

He is not horrible.

Micah Blake McCurdy thinks there's actually a coaching mistake

Interview with Micah Blake McCurdy of HockeyViz – Visualize The Rasmii

"...the really unusual thing about Ristolainen is that the year before last, so two years ago, he was your classic offensive defenseman."
"... [What was so unusual] was the specific pattern of shots that he allowed, so unlike any other pattern that I’ve seen. Not just of any other player on the Sabres, but of any player I’ve ever seen in the league; so much so that I became increasingly convinced that he was doing the wrong thing on purpose. I don’t mean that he was doing something wrong deliberately, I mean that somebody was telling him what to do and he was carefully doing it and they should have told him to do something else."

"So if you just looked at the shot totals you would have said he sucks, end of story, but if you only look at the crease you say he’s clearly not letting them have good quality shots. This all tells me that there was a coaching mistake where they were making him play a style and he was faithfully doing it even though it wasn’t a good idea.”

 

[10Ducky10]

1 guy has 2 years and will walk into free agency they has 4 years and might re-sign. buffalo would have to add nothing.

Trouba is head and shoulders above Risto. No thanks.

 

[ffh]

Trouba is head and shoulders above Risto. No thanks.

in years 3-10 he wouldn't be because he wont be here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think they can find a way to jetisson him. If he's healthy, he'll actually be an asset and might return something small in a trade.

First - If he's healthy, then if Jets retain 1.5 - 2 mil he might bring a return. But it isn't the return that matters. It is just moving the contract. Nobody is going to want to pay 4.333 mil for a 3rd pair D.

 

[ffh]

First - If he's healthy, then if Jets retain 1.5 - 2 mil he might bring a return. But it isn't the return that matters. It is just moving the contract. Nobody is going to want to pay 4.333 mil for a 3rd pair D.

bayak was on xm the other day. he is healthy and ready to go. so if he is healthy and the jets retain 2 million they might be able to move him. are you serious.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

bayak was on xm the other day. he is healthy and ready to go. so if he is healthy and the jets retain 2 million they might be able to move him. are you serious.

Healthy now isn't the issue. Back injuries can be bad for hockey players careers. He needs to put in a full season without a recurrence of his back problems and without another major injury, to restore faith in his health.

And yes, of course I'm serious that Jets need to retain. Unless he suddenly becomes a much better player he is a 3rd pair Dman. What do you think those get paid?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Something like Trouba+ for Karlsson would make sense to me considering the circumstances as of right now with both the Jets and the Senators.

 

[voyageur]

Something like Trouba+ for Karlsson would make sense to me considering the circumstances as of right now with both the Jets and the Senators.

Karlsson is not what we need. He would never re-sign here. He is also an offensive specialist to replace a defensive one. The Cap is going to crunch us next year. I think you want an asset or assets for Trouba, cost effective for a couple of years, as the core is locked up, and youth fills the voids, building a stronger core. I'd like to have the money to keep Myers. At 5.5, the number Trouba wants out of.

So far the best proposal I've read is for Travis Sanheim, for present and future. But I don't know if that's a real deal.

 

[10Ducky10]

The way I see, Trouba has left money on the table. If we assume he gets a healthy raise to 6.5 for his next contract he will have made about 18. for 4 years or he has averaged about 4.5m per year for the past 4 years.

2 x 3 =6.0
1 x 5.5 = 5.5
1 x 6.5 = 6.5
18m

Now, let's assume Chevy offered him a 6 x 5.5m for 33m over 6 years. Trouba would have to make 15m in the next two years to break even not count present/future value of a dollar.

Am I out on the 5.5m over 6 years by much?​

 

[KingBogo]

Micah Blake McCurdy thinks there's actually a coaching mistake

Interview with Micah Blake McCurdy of HockeyViz – Visualize The Rasmii

"...the really unusual thing about Ristolainen is that the year before last, so two years ago, he was your classic offensive defenseman."
"... [What was so unusual] was the specific pattern of shots that he allowed, so unlike any other pattern that I’ve seen. Not just of any other player on the Sabres, but of any player I’ve ever seen in the league; so much so that I became increasingly convinced that he was doing the wrong thing on purpose. I don’t mean that he was doing something wrong deliberately, I mean that somebody was telling him what to do and he was carefully doing it and they should have told him to do something else."

"So if you just looked at the shot totals you would have said he sucks, end of story, but if you only look at the crease you say he’s clearly not letting them have good quality shots. This all tells me that there was a coaching mistake where they were making him play a style and he was faithfully doing it even though it wasn’t a good idea.”

This is a real interesting post. I'm always hesitant to pass judgement on an obviously skilled player that has only played on very bad teams.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Suzuki for Patches. Seems like a ballpark indicator of what we could get for Trouba if we waited until next summer to deal him. I'd say Trouba is worth a bit more than Patches being a defenseman versus a forward, so if we look to the 2018 draft instead of Suzuki's for a defenseman you get into Bouchard-Dobson-Smith-Merkley territory. If we stay in the 2017 draft, and with Vegas, maybe Brannstrom or Hague.

I think it is reasonable to assume that keeping Trouba the extra year would cost us the 1st round pick and the roster player (not just a Tatar-flavoured cap dump). Which may be the reasonable price to pay for cup contention. (though we're also spending a 2nd rounder keeping Myers around by that logic)

 

[GaryPoppins]

I'm just preparing to be underwhelmed by the trade haul for Trouba.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

My ideal Trouba trade is for a Youngish D man 20/21 right handed with high potential plus draft picks. With the possibility of a cap crunch over the next few years we need to start thinking this way

Obviously if we could sign him long term that would be more ideal but I still believe he does not want to live here.

 

[Howard Chuck]

My ideal Trouba trade is for a Youngish D man 20/21 right handed with high potential plus draft picks. With the possibility of a cap crunch over the next few years we need to start thinking this way

Obviously if we could sign him long term that would be more ideal but I still believe he does not want to live here.

I agree. We have been so successful at drafting players who have moved quickly onto the Jets' roster, that we need to start looking at the next wave of 'the process' at the same time that we keep our window open for winning.

We depleted our prospect cupboards simply because we were so good at finding talent that was ready to graduate so quickly.

 

[Whileee]

Suzuki for Patches. Seems like a ballpark indicator of what we could get for Trouba if we waited until next summer to deal him. I'd say Trouba is worth a bit more than Patches being a defenseman versus a forward, so if we look to the 2018 draft instead of Suzuki's for a defenseman you get into Bouchard-Dobson-Smith-Merkley territory. If we stay in the 2017 draft, and with Vegas, maybe Brannstrom or Hague.

I think it is reasonable to assume that keeping Trouba the extra year would cost us the 1st round pick and the roster player (not just a Tatar-flavoured cap dump). Which may be the reasonable price to pay for cup contention. (though we're also spending a 2nd rounder keeping Myers around by that logic)

Trouba is worth way more than Patches.

 

[Whileee]

My ideal Trouba trade is for a Youngish D man 20/21 right handed with high potential plus draft picks. With the possibility of a cap crunch over the next few years we need to start thinking this way

Obviously if we could sign him long term that would be more ideal but I still believe he does not want to live here.

Agree with all of this. If they want to trade him now they might consider a good short-term D as part of the package, like Stralman. He comes off the books next season, and would probably be effective on a shutdown pair with Morrissey this year. Add a good prospect and a pick, and it works out fine.

 

[drumzan]

Seeing as Detroit will be a gong show this year, I’d be willing to trade Trouba for their 1st rounder at the draft.

 

[Neuf]

Increasingly just hoping for a three team trade where we trade for a forward and flip him or existing forward for defenseman

 

[ffh]

Trouba is worth way more than Patches.

I dont think so. only because it looks like trouba wants free agency and a bidding war for him to get the upmost contract he can get. and patches and almost everybody else just want a fair deal. I believe McKenzie 100% when he said trouba wanted 8aav. what will he want next year with 1 year till free agency. hard to make a deal when other gm's think he wants to go to free agency. if you cant be traded then you wont be worth more.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Trouba is worth way more than Patches.

Lets see;
24 > 29
D > LW
coming off good year > coming off bad year
2 years to UFA > 1 year to UFA
Hmmmmm.

If we are talking Trouba's value after this season then the time to UFA is equal.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Trouba is worth way more than Patches.

Only if the other team feels there is a long term fit and can sign him to a new contract. How many teams fall into that category? Otherwise, he's just another rental who will command the going rate of a pick and a prospect. I too am expecting to be underwhelmed by what we get for him.

 

[Jimmyjets]

Only if the other team feels there is a long term fit and can sign him to a new contract. How many teams fall into that category? Otherwise, he's just another rental who will command the going rate of a pick and a prospect. I too am expecting to be underwhelmed by what we get for him.

If next offseason the offers are a pick and a prospect don't you think the play would be to keep him for one more shot at a cup and then let him walk for nothing? You're probably paying almost that price at the deadline to shore up the D if Trouba is gone.

Teams will be able to talk extension with him at that point. We should extract good value for a "to be extended" Trouba or I'd rather just keep him and let him walk for nothing honestly. Teams can't bank on signing him as a UFA because we could trade him elsewhere and he could sign an extension there. If you want Trouba (cough, Detroit, cough) you've got to put up a decent offer to guarantee that you get him. It's a risky play to assume he'll be available as a UFA. They could give us Hronek as a RHD replacement and Veleno/Rasmussen/1st to help fill in the center depth as well so we could address some needs. We don't need to get a Larkin, Zadina, Svech, Mantha in return and they should be satisfied not giving up a crown jewel prospect.

IMO he extends with Detroit, Tampa or Florida and all three teams have packages they could put together that I would be ok with after this season.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

If next offseason the offers are a pick and a prospect don't you think the play would be to keep him for one more shot at a cup and then let him walk for nothing? You're probably paying almost that price at the deadline to shore up the D if Trouba is gone.

My standard response to this is, let's wait and see if we even have another shot at the Cup this year. That will have a big effect on how we view our current assets.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Only if the other team feels there is a long term fit and can sign him to a new contract. How many teams fall into that category? Otherwise, he's just another rental who will command the going rate of a pick and a prospect. I too am expecting to be underwhelmed by what we get for him.

Don't entirely disagree with this. My expectations for a Trouba return have fallen off quite a bit.

But - the Pacioretty deal is cause for some optimism.