Abbotsford Heat relocating to Glens Falls, NY

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Thought this was interesting - from the Maine Hockey Journal.

"Any completed deal to form a Pacific Division would need AHL Board of Governors approval and with the board’s approval only NHL clubs that own their AHL franchise could move out west. Currently, Los Angeles (Manchester), San Jose (Worcester), Calgary (Glens Falls), Edmonton (Oklahoma City) and Vancouver (Utica) own their own AHL club and are in a position to relocate once the board of governors gave its approval.

Phoenix and Anaheim do not own their own AHL franchise and would need to either be granted a provisional franchise by the AHL Board of Governors or purchase an existing franchise and seek approval by the board to relocate out west."

Link to entire article. http://mainehockeyjournal.com/?p=20837

again, though, everybody's saying 2015-16, it may not be, the question is both Manchester and Worcester are expecting to be status quo in 2015-16, SC, THOSE Leases are up in 2016, and it remains to be seen if the Kings stay in Manchester since the Monarchs are the only tenant in Manchester. Worcester is also looking at extension rights w/ DCU since they're under option years, fwiu.

I don't see OKC going anywhere further west. Utica has 5 years to run as well, so we could be looking at 2018 or later if it happens at all. Anaheim also would need to revise their philosophy as the Samuelis have no interest in owning their affiliate nor have operated in that fashion, and it was Burke who originally proposed this while under Ducks employ.

 

[Sidekick]

"you'll never see a 4 division alignment if the NHL doesn't use it. "

...but the NHL does use it.


I just used geographic logic to come up with those divisions. Fact is there is a large distance between the furthest east team in the WEST (Grand Rapids) and the furthest west team in any other division (Cleveland) - 4 hrs. That pretty much leaves those 8 teams in the midwestern-US in a defacto division anyways. Add in the fact there is an actual dividing line between the 8 EAST teams and the SOUTH/NORTH teams (the New England/New York border)...and the divisions create themselves. Only thing that really goes against geography is having Binghamton play in the SOUTH as opposed to in the NORTH with their other in-state rivals.

But to do it 6 divisions of 5, or 15/15, I dunno....wouldn't really make sense..I mean Utica is east of Syracuse, but in the west? the eff??


I suppose alternatively instead of ranking the 4 division winners by regular season points, you could use playoff win percentage. Or you could use travel minimization (like the OHA Jr.C championships use).

 

[Theoriginalalex]

you'll never see a 4 division alignment if the NHL doesn't use it.

Uh, the NHL does have 4 divisions.

I agree, if the NHL was still at 6 there's no way the AHL would go back to 4, but with the NHL returning to an emphasis on divisional play, doesn't it make sense for the AHL to follow?

as everybody knows, alignment matters little for the schedule, but the most surprising thing to me about the move to 6 divisions in the first place was the increased playoff travel. I'm surprised the owners signed on for that.

Using Sidekick's setup and applying the 2013-14 standings, here are the first round matchups:

TEX-MIL / CHI-GR
TOR-RCH / ADK (ABB) - ALB
MCH-PRO / SPR-STJ
BNG-HER / WBS-NOR

Would fans or teams really complain about that?

 

[aparch]

I suppose alternatively instead of ranking the 4 division winners by regular season points, you could use playoff win percentage. Or you could use travel minimization (like the OHA Jr.C championships use).

Or RPI and PWR like the NCAA...

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Uh, the NHL does have 4 divisions.

I agree, if the NHL was still at 6 there's no way the AHL would go back to 4, but with the NHL returning to an emphasis on divisional play, doesn't it make sense for the AHL to follow?

as everybody knows, alignment matters little for the schedule, but the most surprising thing to me about the move to 6 divisions in the first place was the increased playoff travel. I'm surprised the owners signed on for that.

Using Sidekick's setup and applying the 2013-14 standings, here are the first round matchups:

TEX-MIL / CHI-GR
TOR-RCH / ADK (ABB) - ALB
MCH-PRO / SPR-STJ
BNG-HER / WBS-NOR

Would fans or teams really complain about that?

You can't use the records from this past year to indicate playoff match-ups since no team west of Pennsylvania will ever see the Adirondack Flames or the Lehigh Valley Phantoms.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Uh, the NHL does have 4 divisions.

I agree, if the NHL was still at 6 there's no way the AHL would go back to 4, but with the NHL returning to an emphasis on divisional play, doesn't it make sense for the AHL to follow?

as everybody knows, alignment matters little for the schedule, but the most surprising thing to me about the move to 6 divisions in the first place was the increased playoff travel. I'm surprised the owners signed on for that.

Using Sidekick's setup and applying the 2013-14 standings, here are the first round matchups:

TEX-MIL / CHI-GR
TOR-RCH / ADK (ABB) - ALB
MCH-PRO / SPR-STJ
BNG-HER / WBS-NOR

Would fans or teams really complain about that?

no it doesn't 2 conferences 2 divisions, 8/8/7/7 IS What the NHL uses now, the AHL Doesn't and scrapped the 2 division alignment years ago, because it created more confusion explaining it than what it is now.

the AHL is still 3 divisions of 5 teams in each conference, something the NHL hasn't or wouldn't achieve since they scrapped the same alignment going to the 16/14 you see now.

and no, the 2nd round isn't what you stated it was.

St. John's (4) is playing Norfolk (8); Norfolk eliminated the 1-MCH

Providence (6) is playing WB/S (7); PRO took out the 2-SPR;

WB/S took out the 3-BNG;

St. John's eliminated the 5-ALB;


West:

1-Texas took out the 8-OKC, is playing the 4-GR which ended the 5-Abbotsford season, hence why the Heat have been a topic since the city bought them out of the lease, Alex;

2-CHI outlasted the 7-ROC & is playing the 3-TOR which took out the 6-MIL.

http://www.thecaldercup.com or http://www.theahl.com.

 

[Theoriginalalex]

I think you both missed my point with the playoff matchups.

It was just theoretical to show that divisional playoffs would mean less travel in the first two rounds than conference playoffs currently has. I know who is in the real 2014 playoffs.

As far as the NHL using 2 conferences of 2 divisions, that's splitting hairs. Still equals 4 divisions total and divisional play in the playoffs.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I think you both missed my point with the playoff matchups.

It was just theoretical to show that divisional playoffs would mean less travel in the first two rounds than conference playoffs currently has. I know who is in the real 2014 playoffs.

As far as the NHL using 2 conferences of 2 divisions, that's splitting hairs. Still equals 4 divisions total and divisional play in the playoffs.

the point is, Alex, you won't be seeing more than 5 teams in a divisional alignment in our league, there was a reason the league capped the divisions at 5, and it has nothing to do w/ divisional playoffs, prior to this if you were the 5th place team in one of the 2 divisions and had more points than the 4th place team in the other division, you qualified even though you weren't in that division but you played in that divisional round.

 

[sabrefan27]

So....??

...This:

Atlantic: Manchester, Worcester, Providence, St. John's, Portland
Northeast: Springfield, Albany, Adirondack, Hartford, Bridgeport
East: Binghamton, WBS, Norfolk, Hershey, Lehigh Valley

North: Rochester, Utica, Syracuse, Hamilton, Toronto
Midwest: Chicago, Grand Rapids, Lake Erie, Rockford, Milwaukee
West: Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, San Antonio

 

[go comets]

...This:

Atlantic: Manchester, Worcester, Providence, St. John's, Portland
Northeast: Springfield, Albany, Adirondack, Hartford, Bridgeport
East: Binghamton, WBS, Norfolk, Hershey, Lehigh Valley

North: Rochester, Utica, Syracuse, Hamilton, Toronto
Midwest: Chicago, Grand Rapids, Lake Erie, Rockford, Milwaukee
West: Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, San Antonio

That's what I came up with. Still don't like the idea of Charlotte in the west, but I guess they can call it the south division now....

 

[Lunatik]

...This:

Atlantic: Manchester, Worcester, Providence, St. John's, Portland
Northeast: Springfield, Albany, Adirondack, Hartford, Bridgeport
East: Binghamton, WBS, Norfolk, Hershey, Lehigh Valley

North: Rochester, Utica, Syracuse, Hamilton, Toronto
Midwest: Chicago, Grand Rapids, Lake Erie, Rockford, Milwaukee
West: Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, San Antonio

Honestly they should just go with the 4 division format that the NHL has and have 16 in the east and 14 in the West. It's not like the AHL uses balanced schedules anyways. And if they adopt a similar playoff format it should help limit travel in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Honestly they should just go with the 4 division format that the NHL has and have 16 in the east and 14 in the West. It's not like the AHL uses balanced schedules anyways. And if they adopt a similar playoff format it should help limit travel in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.

exactly the opposite, AH, THERE were numerous threads about how the NHL should've balanced the conferences that has nothing to do w/ Abbotsford being bought out/relocated if we can balance the conferences in a 3 division alignment, and still keep the rivalry games, it's served its purpose.

why the NHL BOG couldn't is a question only they can truly answer....

btw, rumblings have surfaced that it cost the city of Abbotsford 13 M in the red over the 5 yrs the Heat were there, which includes the buyout.

 

[Lunatik]

exactly the opposite, AH, THERE were numerous threads about how the NHL should've balanced the conferences that has nothing to do w/ Abbotsford being bought out/relocated if we can balance the conferences in a 3 division alignment, and still keep the rivalry games, it's served its purpose.

why the NHL BOG couldn't is a question only they can truly answer....

btw, rumblings have surfaced that it cost the city of Abbotsford 13 M in the red over the 5 yrs the Heat were there, which includes the buyout.

Who cares about how many threads there were? It does not change my opinion at all.

And everyone knew the Heat were bleeding money, it's why the city bought out the contract. That is what happens when fans don't show up and your travel expenses are exponentially higher than anyone else's. Those numbers are not shocking to anyone who paid attention to the Heat over the last 5 years.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Who cares about how many threads there were? It does not change my opinion at all.

And everyone knew the Heat were bleeding money, it's why the city bought out the contract. That is what happens when fans don't show up and your travel expenses are exponentially higher than anyone else's. Those numbers are not shocking to anyone who paid attention to the Heat over the last 5 years.

what has the divisional alignment balance have to do w/ the league in general, AH, in fact, it was some of the brighter minds here that worked tirelessly to convince the NHL to be 15-15, not 16-14, you completely lost the fanbase around the league by even suggesting it, the only quibble most of us had was putting Charlotte in the West, when geographically it's not.

just trying to understand what direction you're coming from.

 

[axecrew]

what has the divisional alignment balance have to do w/ the league in general, AH, in fact, it was some of the brighter minds here that worked tirelessly to convince the NHL to be 15-15, not 16-14, you completely lost the fanbase around the league by even suggesting it, the only quibble most of us had was putting Charlotte in the West, when geographically it's not.

just trying to understand what direction you're coming from.

Well hutch.....SOMEONE has to play in the west. Charlotte has been in each division in the west in it's 3 years in the Western Conference. It's not like teams are begging to play in the conference, Syracuse begged, pleaded and cried just the opposite. So who comes over now to replace abbotsford.....cant imagine they would leave that team in the Western Conference....but they did it with Utica and Rochester's still in the West.

 

[Lunatik]

what has the divisional alignment balance have to do w/ the league in general, AH, in fact, it was some of the brighter minds here that worked tirelessly to convince the NHL to be 15-15, not 16-14, you completely lost the fanbase around the league by even suggesting it, the only quibble most of us had was putting Charlotte in the West, when geographically it's not.

just trying to understand what direction you're coming from.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying to be honest. You talk so much and say almost nothing of substance. You talk like threads on a message board matter in the grand scheme of things. Like the NHL actually cares what a handful of fans think, or the AHL for that matter.

And just who are these "brighter minds"? I really hope you aren't aren't implying I am not a bright mind just because I am new to posting in the AHL section of the message board and you are because you have. You have already proved you have no idea what you are talking about when you said the AHL paid all travel expenses for the Heat.

It's really not that hard to understand, for people that have an open mind. Going with the 16-14 or 8-8-7-7 format that was suggested makes the most sense considering the locations of teams and the fact that AHL scheduling is all over the map adding "rivalry" games instead of having a set in stone divisional/conference heavy schedule. This unbalanced format would allow for more of the rivalries the AHL wants and removes some of the travel.

 

[Theoriginalalex]

...it was some of the brighter minds here that worked tirelessly to convince the NHL to be 15-15, not 16-14...

I really doubt the NHL BoG logged on to HFboards at the meeting where they decided their alignment to find out what the "bright minds" had to say.

What you or I think matters nothing to the AHL - they're going to do what they want to protect the interests of their owners.

It's fun to speculate here, play fantasy commissioner, and exchange ideas, but we all know our input means nothing.

 

[axecrew]

I'm trying to understand what you're saying to be honest. You talk so much and say almost nothing of substance. You talk like threads on a message board matter in the grand scheme of things. Like the NHL actually cares what a handful of fans think, or the AHL for that matter.

And just who are these "brighter minds"? I really hope you aren't aren't implying I am not a bright mind just because I am new to posting in the AHL section of the message board and you are because you have. You have already proved you have no idea what you are talking about when you said the AHL paid all travel expenses for the Heat.

It's really not that hard to understand, for people that have an open mind. Going with the 16-14 or 8-8-7-7 format that was suggested makes the most sense considering the locations of teams and the fact that AHL scheduling is all over the map adding "rivalry" games instead of having a set in stone divisional/conference heavy schedule. This unbalanced format would allow for more of the rivalries the AHL wants and removes some of the travel.

Well said.....

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I think that since the heat are now in adirondack, that they, Rochester, and Utica all go to the Eastern Conference. The Western conference can have fewer teams, its not like we see the other teams anyway.

The eastern conference can play their little fraidy cat bus schedule and never come to the west. Then when the western NHL teams buy/move their teams, Dave Andrews can go.........

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I really doubt the NHL BoG logged on to HFboards at the meeting where they decided their alignment to find out what the "bright minds" had to say.

What you or I think matters nothing to the AHL - they're going to do what they want to protect the interests of their owners.

It's fun to speculate here, play fantasy commissioner, and exchange ideas, but we all know our input means nothing.

again, this isn't the forum to speculate, alex

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I'm trying to understand what you're saying to be honest. You talk so much and say almost nothing of substance. You talk like threads on a message board matter in the grand scheme of things. Like the NHL actually cares what a handful of fans think, or the AHL for that matter.

And just who are these "brighter minds"? I really hope you aren't aren't implying I am not a bright mind just because I am new to posting in the AHL section of the message board and you are because you have. You have already proved you have no idea what you are talking about when you said the AHL paid all travel expenses for the Heat.

It's really not that hard to understand, for people that have an open mind. Going with the 16-14 or 8-8-7-7 format that was suggested makes the most sense considering the locations of teams and the fact that AHL scheduling is all over the map adding "rivalry" games instead of having a set in stone divisional/conference heavy schedule. This unbalanced format would allow for more of the rivalries the AHL wants and removes some of the travel.

why does it matter, AH, We're the ones who scrapped the confusing divisional alignment aka "cross-over" bc it created more issues than it was intended to and took the focus off winning a division because the focus shifted to which 5th place team would qualify.

the bright minds of this forum weren't all from our league, because not everyone can play everyone in a 76 game season, it used to be 80, but the "rivalry" games were requested by most to keep those that developed them intact, in fact, each franchise requested this, to preserve those games, to foster those.

the reason the NHL Realigned into the 8-8-7-7 FORMAT is the belief was expansion was forthcoming once Ice Arizona assumed control of the Coyotes from the NHL. most realignment threads centered around whether DET, Columbus, or Nashville would be added to what is now the Atlantic and Metropolitan, because Detroit, as Toronto before them was promised a slot in the East if the league realigned. That is no longer the view as Quebec, Seattle, Kansas City were bandied about as either expansion or relocation sites.

btw, 12.7 M is the losses incurred by the Heat, and 11 M were projected had the city not bought out the contract. Our league cannot expand unless the NHL Does, since there is no longer a true option of independents, google Baltimore and Binghamton circa 1980 and you'll see why the AHL now requires an NHL Club as part of its affiliation proposal, whether the league expanded, or as in 2001, mandated those franchises have that be a part of their acceptance as a member club.

 

[Rumblick]

Personally, I don't think a 20-10 split would be a terrible idea. Charlotte, Chicago, Grand Rapids, Iowa, Lake Erie, Milwaukee, Oklahoma City, Rockford, San Antonio and Texas make up the West, and the rest form the East. If the proposed western expansion happens, you can realign accordingly as you go. Aside from potentially gumming up the playoff works, I don't see a major downside to it. I actually sent this in to the AHL offices - haven't heard back yet.

 

[Theoriginalalex]

why does it matter, AH, We're the ones who scrapped the confusing divisional alignment aka "cross-over" bc it created more issues than it was intended to and took the focus off winning a division because the focus shifted to which 5th place team would qualify.

You did it? Unless you work for a team, that's a complete fantasy world. I highly doubt that the AHL (or NHL, or any other league) BoG said: "Oh man, those guys over at HFboards are really sounding convincing! We better realign out league like they say!"

Personally, I don't think a 20-10 split would be a terrible idea.

3 conferences of 10 and league-wide playoffs?

 

[210]

I can't think of any scenario where the AHL's Board of Governors would vote for league wide playoffs.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You did it? Unless you work for a team, that's a complete fantasy world. I highly doubt that the AHL (or NHL, or any other league) BoG said: "Oh man, those guys over at HFboards are really sounding convincing! We better realign out league like they say!"



3 conferences of 10 and league-wide playoffs?

why are you here, Alex, to be a troll