Abbotsford Heat relocating to Glens Falls, NY
- Thread starter RFA
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No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
Inclined to agree. Not getting the logic for them to leave Abbotsford considering that they just about have guaranteed profitability thanks to their deal with the city.
The only thing I can figure is the city may be close to finding a way out of the lease. Governments around here often don't do what they said they would.....
Or it could be that they want to be closer to their biggest AHL rival in Utica and are sick of those long flights.......
Seriously though, I'm guessing they're feeling some pressure from the locals. There are so many parts of agreements like this that maybe the city has found something, or at least something to use as leverage? Just speculation of course.
If they do move I think we'll hear the "less travel time, more practice time, more nights in our own bed......" type story.
Or it could be that they want to be closer to their biggest AHL rival in Utica and are sick of those long flights.......
Seriously though, I'm guessing they're feeling some pressure from the locals. There are so many parts of agreements like this that maybe the city has found something, or at least something to use as leverage? Just speculation of course.
If they do move I think we'll hear the "less travel time, more practice time, more nights in our own bed......" type story.
The question is, RFA, based off the Flames affiliation track record in 22 seasons, haven't they utilized local ownership to operate the franchise, and didn't Calgary rebuke the effort by Vancouver this past offseason to move or attempt to "trade" the affiliation bc Vancouver wanted the Heat affiliation and "settled" FOR Esche and the Comets.
Sports Enthusiast
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Whats so great about Glens Fall though? Why out of all places Glens Falls? They stopped supporting their UHL team after a couple years.
I thought Vancouver wanted the Chicago Wolves' affiliation to bring the Canucks prospects to Abbotsford. The bigger questions would be what happens to Utica is Calgary moves.
I do not know who has run the AHL operations for the Flames, but I doubt that would be a deal breaker. Spectacor (or a different management company), the City, or the Flames could come up with a front office if they really wanted to.
Glens Falls is close to several other cities with teams and the city supposedly will sign a favorable lease. The Adirondack Phantoms have to be among the worst AHL clubs ever, especially for a team that has played for five seasons, and have a modest following. There have been several larger cities over the years who have come and gone since the AHL moved into Glens Falls in 1979 with less support, and mostly likely the costs associated with running the team were higher.
The UHL was a totally different bird. I'm not sure any teams made money, the owner personally told me "In order to own a minor league team you need a big ego and a lot of money to lose". So whether the support was ever there is a bigger question. The two can't really be compared because a large portion of the Glens Falls crowd drives 30-60 minutes to the games and won't drive that far to a league lower than the AHL. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that point of view, but it is what happens.
I do not know who has run the AHL operations for the Flames, but I doubt that would be a deal breaker. Spectacor (or a different management company), the City, or the Flames could come up with a front office if they really wanted to.
Glens Falls is close to several other cities with teams and the city supposedly will sign a favorable lease. The Adirondack Phantoms have to be among the worst AHL clubs ever, especially for a team that has played for five seasons, and have a modest following. There have been several larger cities over the years who have come and gone since the AHL moved into Glens Falls in 1979 with less support, and mostly likely the costs associated with running the team were higher.
The UHL was a totally different bird. I'm not sure any teams made money, the owner personally told me "In order to own a minor league team you need a big ego and a lot of money to lose". So whether the support was ever there is a bigger question. The two can't really be compared because a large portion of the Glens Falls crowd drives 30-60 minutes to the games and won't drive that far to a league lower than the AHL. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that point of view, but it is what happens.
Tommy Hawk
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- May 27, 2006
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Didn't Calgary tour Utica last year as well? I do not make much of this as they have a sweeeeeeeeeeeet deal in Abbotsford.
http://poststar.com/calgary-flames-...cle_d24a5e8a-b087-11e3-ad54-0019bb2963f4.html
Provides more lease info at the end I wasn't aware of, like a 5 year review (which is this year).
On a side note, I had 1 ST for ADK and 2 in Albany. Last week, figuring GF would be dark next year I bought 3 for Albany. My luck all but guarantees a team in GF now.
Provides more lease info at the end I wasn't aware of, like a 5 year review (which is this year).
On a side note, I had 1 ST for ADK and 2 in Albany. Last week, figuring GF would be dark next year I bought 3 for Albany. My luck all but guarantees a team in GF now.
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UticaHockey
Registered User
I have no inside knowledge but if I was a betting man I would go with Vancouver and Calgary swapping AHL locations next year. Calgary in Utica and Vancouver in Abbotsford. I just think this was the plan all along but they couldn't get a deal done in time last year.
Tommy Hawk
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UticaHockey
Registered User
Agreed. Calgary is in the driver's seat and it will likely come down to a significant amount of money to buy them out of that contract. I think this comes down to how much does Vancouver want to pay Calgary in order to have their AHL team close to home.
no, utica, your ownership has a five year lease and that's not changing no matter if the Flames pull out of Abbotsford, to go to GF, as is being rumored, one reason might be to build the rivalry just as Albany and Adirondack did for many years besides, Esche wanted a team and got it w/ the Comets, by way of St.Louis, to pull the rug out after 1 season, how does that serve the Mohawk Valley market after waiting almost 2 decades to return to our league?
UticaHockey
Registered User
Local media reports last year stated that the Comets agreement with Vancouver was for 6 years. BUT if the Canucks want to be in Abbotsford bad enough to pony up money to make the Flames go away they will have no problem paying the penalty fee for breaking the Comets lease early.
I hope Vancouver stays in Utica and Calgary does go to Glens Falls but I don't realistically think that will happen.
Utica's not reneging on that lease, Utica, so it's a moot point, if Abbotsford and Calgary split, they split. tht was the whole premise of the Canucks trying to swap the affiliation, Calgary said no, so it went nowhere. It means wht RFA And I stated, if Calgary gets pulled out of Abbotsford, they'll go to GF, THE QUESTION IS WHO runs the Flames ops in GF since Calgary has operated that way for 22 years.
only when that lease expires or Vancouver wants a different affiliate will Abbotsford be available, GF's 2014-15 FRANCHISE HAS NOTHING to do w/ the Comets franchise.
rumblings are now saying city of Abbotsford will vote to end the lease agreement between the Abbotsford Events Center,and the Heat by the time free agency begins next year (7/1);
Calgary's Asst GM has been touring Glens Falls, and if the above is true, the Heat will land in Glens Falls in '14/15. Andrews is also hinting toward that resolution as he was in attendance @ the ADK gm last night.
Calgary's Asst GM has been touring Glens Falls, and if the above is true, the Heat will land in Glens Falls in '14/15. Andrews is also hinting toward that resolution as he was in attendance @ the ADK gm last night.
That area is a tough sell for AHL hockey now. Both Albany and Glens Falls fall within Union College and RPI of the ECACHL. One would think that Union University having arrived at basically top ten college hockey powerhouse status that the modern day AHL which has changed so much would no longer appeal as much an NCAA DI that invests in winning. AHL teams, especially those owned and operated by their NHL clubs put winning and on ice performance at that level on the back burner, strong emerging NCAA programs like Union University play to win.
Tommy Hawk
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Totally agree. The AHL has regressed so that it is barely better than the ECHL, NCAA or Major Junior hockey.
I actually like the ECHL model of doing business because they maintain the status of being AHL/NHL affiliated all while maintaining local operational control and local identity. The ECHL makes a great landing spot for undrafted DI players, exceptional DIII players, undrafted underated strong Major Junior players, and strong career minor leaguers. The ECHL also allows for dual affiliations and if managed right could be an ideal fit in the northeast given the amount of NHL & AHL clubs. The Glens Falls is so willing to take any AHL deal it has overlooked the good things the ECHL could offer the fans there. Look at Albany, the Devils organization came back and dumped their local identity and this might be the first time in well over a decade that the Devils organization will provide whats left of the anemic Albany fanbase a taste of playoff hockey.
I often think that NHL owned AHL clubs often go through the motions like they are taking the game as a glorified scrimage or practice game. You can see often times they dont play to win. They may not play to try and lose but they just dont play to win. The roster movement is head spinning, you cannot form any connection with teams like that. Those organizations are really easy to pick out. The AHL has changed greatly over the last decade and I am not sure it is all for the better of everyone.
President Andrews was at the Saturday game in Glens Falls, that's a sign that something is going on- I don't think he was there because he's going to miss the hot dogs at New Way Lunch once the Phantoms head south. And he's not the type of guy who shows up at a losing cause. He's not going to swoop down from his perch in Springfield when a team is heading out, unless one is coming in.
Union College plays in a barn that seats about 2,500 in wood bleachers, and doesn't sell it out.
Is there any way these threads can be monitored and adjusted more, so they stay on topic? Not being rude, but ECHL, ECACHL, or other gripes about general AHL issues don't fall into what may or may not happen in Glens Falls next year.
Union College plays in a barn that seats about 2,500 in wood bleachers, and doesn't sell it out.
Is there any way these threads can be monitored and adjusted more, so they stay on topic? Not being rude, but ECHL, ECACHL, or other gripes about general AHL issues don't fall into what may or may not happen in Glens Falls next year.
"Financial Review" clause key
The news article provided some extra information that I had not previously heard anywhere else.
Everyone knows the ridiculous (for the municipality) contract the Heat has with Abbotsford, that would obviously keep the team there until it expires. There is apparently some sort of financial review that is due to occur this summer, halfway through the contract. If this review gives the city the ability to terminate the contract, I believe the Heat are already good as gone.
Without the city shoring up the coffers, the travel costs would destroy the bottom line of even a well attended team. Glens Falls might have middling attendance (though I would argue it's pretty good given the quality of the team over the past five years), but it's a lot closer to other teams than Abbotsford.
If the Heat come to NY, I will be waiting with cash in hand for season tickets, so long as they keep prices reasonable as the Phantoms did.
The news article provided some extra information that I had not previously heard anywhere else.
Everyone knows the ridiculous (for the municipality) contract the Heat has with Abbotsford, that would obviously keep the team there until it expires. There is apparently some sort of financial review that is due to occur this summer, halfway through the contract. If this review gives the city the ability to terminate the contract, I believe the Heat are already good as gone.
Without the city shoring up the coffers, the travel costs would destroy the bottom line of even a well attended team. Glens Falls might have middling attendance (though I would argue it's pretty good given the quality of the team over the past five years), but it's a lot closer to other teams than Abbotsford.
If the Heat come to NY, I will be waiting with cash in hand for season tickets, so long as they keep prices reasonable as the Phantoms did.
So if all of this plays out like everyone says or thinks......What happens to the previous comments made by some about a true western conference etc and how teams are looking to move west??? Kinda spits right in the face of that doesn't it?
My cousin is a Union College alumni and he told me the college wanted to build a 6500 arena off campus in downtown Schenectady. There was early talks of sharing it with the Albany River Rats at the time. He said last night that if Albany's AHL team ever moves they may play there home games in Albany's arena. A game there this season drew around 8000 he said. He also said games there in the past with Union have usually drawn well over 5000 each time. RFA we are on topic, we are discussing whether AHL in Glens Falls really makes sense. There is really no proof the Glens Falls is a sure sell. Attendance there is bolstered by games down in Philly, Albany despite doing ok this season has had much worse teams. If the Adirondack Civic Center does get a team I am hoping they get local control, create an identity of their own and not be called the Glens Falls or Adirondack Flames. A team there no doubt will have to face competition from the like of Union College, and a team in Albany. Strong selling point is that a team in Albany plays in a very nice building, although my Father who travelled there back in the days to see NCAA basketball said the food is god awful in Albany's arena.
