A team's worst ever trade..

[anlongo13]

The Oates trade was worse imo but that is as an outside observer. Basically Blues traded Oates for a lesser playmaker and a physical defenseman. Eventually that Oates trade would lead to Duschesne though. Janney was traded for Norton (another awful trade) who was sent for Kravchuk and so on.

Certainly up there, along with the Garth Butcher trade as well. In my personal opinion, I rate the Pronger trade the worst because of the reasons behind it. Blues let one of the best defensemen in the game go for a fraction of what the return should have been.

 

[The Panther]

things went south for all players quickly

Well, two of them were nobodies overnight, but I wouldn't say Bernie Nicholls "went south" quickly. He waited 30+ games before joining the Oilers, but when he arrived he helped them a great deal and scored a point-per-game. He had great chemistry with Vince Damphousse, who unfortunately wanted out after that one (1991-92) season. The Oilers went completely into the tank in 1992-93, but when healthy Nicholls still had the best per-game stats on the team with 40 points in 46 games. He then had a similar year in '94 with defence-first New Jersey, but he came back to life in Chicago. He comfortably led the Hawks in scoring in 1995 (and had 12 points in the playoffs as they went to the third round), then had 60 points in 59 games the next year, the best per-game on the team again (well, matching Roenick), and another 9 points in 10 playoff games.

So, he scored 110 points in 108 games for the Hawks in 1995-1996, the best per-game on the team, and another 21 points in the playoffs. In fact, in 1995, he finished 12th in NHL scoring, ahead of Gretzky, Hull, and Selanne.

So, he wasn't finished in 1991.

(I feel like I'm always defending Bernie Nicholls... well, someone has to!)

 

[Hobnobs]

Certainly up there, along with the Garth Butcher trade as well. In my personal opinion, I rate the Pronger trade the worst because of the reasons behind it. Blues let one of the best defensemen in the game go for a fraction of what the return should have been.

Well the reason might be valid but I agree that the return was terrible. Oh another Blues trade. Brind'Amour... What did Blues get out of that? Baron and one of the Sutters?

 

[blogofmike]

Gretzky-era Kings lost a lot of assets for questionable return.

Losing Paul Coffey for Jimmy Carson in 1993 was pretty bad. Coffey ended up getting more playoff points on a team that lost in the first round. The Kings powerplay could have used Coffey on the back end instead of a 20-year old Alexei Zhitnik.

 

[johnnybbadd]

Sam Pollock mastered getting future 1st round picks from poorly run expansion teams in the 70s. You would think as a GM in the league that you wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that type of deal. But the Leafs did the unthinkable and squandered their two highest draft positions since 1985 by making trades for future draft picks before a puck was dropped for those seasons in question.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Well the reason might be valid but I agree that the return was terrible. Oh another Blues trade. Brind'Amour... What did Blues get out of that? Baron and one of the Sutters?

the butcher trade at least you could see the reasoning: ronning and quinn were thought to be a wash (oops), and you're overpaying with scoring depth for a tough defensive rock to keep pace with the big bad blackhawks, and take the pressure off stevens to be that guy. those blues were the softest team in the norris by a mile.

the brind'amour trade never made any sense though. geoff courtnall was considered a dime a dozen scoring winger, though obviously we'd learn in vancouver that he was incredibly clutch. momesso you wanted to be a power forward but was really more of a grinding third liner. so that trade was just a bad misjudge on how mich butcher had left in the tank. but everyone knew how good and how young brind'amour was, and what he could grow into. that's not a guy you sacrifice for role players a la tony amonte unless you have massive depth, which st. louis did not... having just traded their entire second line to the canucks.

 

[Voight]

Devils worst?

 

[Hobnobs]

Devils worst?

I always thought the MacLean trade was pretty bad or trading Willie Mitchell for O'donnell. Cant remember any BIG deals tho. I guess one of the absolute worse has to be trading Meagher for Perry "Who?" Anderson

Edit: Verbeek for Sylvain Turgeon.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I always thought the MacLean trade was pretty bad or trading Willie Mitchell for O'donnell. Cant remember any BIG deals tho. I guess one of the absolute worse has to be trading Meagher for Perry "Who?" Anderson

Edit: Verbeek for Sylvain Turgeon.

but in a roundabout way that got them their '95 conn smythe winner, so hard to complain too much right?

maclean was an impending UFA that they couldn't re-sign right?

and when you win two cups and make three finals in four years, i think it's okay to lose a good young player, even one who would have been as excellent a devil as willie mitchell, to rent a #6 at the trade deadline. do they still make the finals that year playing ken sutton? he was barely even still in the league.

 

[And You Feel Shame]

I've said it before elsewhere, but I think the Islanders trades mentioned in this thread so far aren't even the worst of them. Maloney's trading Pierre Turgeon and Vladimir Malakhov for Kirk Muller and Matthieu Schneider did far more damage and was a catalyst for sending this team into the death spiral in the first place.

Even if Muller had been thrilled with the trade and played his heart out for the Islanders it would have been a poor value trade. What actually transpired from it, combined with additional bad trades and personnel decisions, turned this from a bad trade to an absolute disaster for a franchise that took a left turn straight to hell.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Well, two of them were nobodies overnight, but I wouldn't say Bernie Nicholls "went south" quickly. He waited 30+ games before joining the Oilers, but when he arrived he helped them a great deal and scored a point-per-game. He had great chemistry with Vince Damphousse, who unfortunately wanted out after that one (1991-92) season. The Oilers went completely into the tank in 1992-93, but when healthy Nicholls still had the best per-game stats on the team with 40 points in 46 games. He then had a similar year in '94 with defence-first New Jersey, but he came back to life in Chicago. He comfortably led the Hawks in scoring in 1995 (and had 12 points in the playoffs as they went to the third round), then had 60 points in 59 games the next year, the best per-game on the team again (well, matching Roenick), and another 9 points in 10 playoff games.

So, he scored 110 points in 108 games for the Hawks in 1995-1996, the best per-game on the team, and another 21 points in the playoffs. In fact, in 1995, he finished 12th in NHL scoring, ahead of Gretzky, Hull, and Selanne.

So, he wasn't finished in 1991.

(I feel like I'm always defending Bernie Nicholls... well, someone has to!)

Bernie Nicholls and Adam Oates are two of the most underrated players from recent history..

Of course they played in a padded era so they're often overlooked - but that still shouldn't take away from what they did....

That eras focus is on Gretzky, Lemieux, Roy and Bourque when it comes to positions but a lot of guys don't get their props.

 

[Hobnobs]

I've said it before elsewhere, but I think the Islanders trades mentioned in this thread so far aren't even the worst of them. Maloney's trading Pierre Turgeon and Vladimir Malakhov for Kirk Muller and Matthieu Schneider did far more damage and was a catalyst for sending this team into the death spiral in the first place.

Even if Muller had been thrilled with the trade and played his heart out for the Islanders it would have been a poor value trade. What actually transpired from it, combined with additional bad trades and personnel decisions, turned this from a bad trade to an absolute disaster for a franchise that took a left turn straight to hell.

Indeed. I always thought that was one of the catalysts for Isles dive into futility. The trade following that was also a horrible one i hindsight. Isles trade a good utility player in Hogue + 2 draft picks for Eric Fichaud who was a bust. And after that the Thomas trade which brought Wendel Clark to New York. All he did was sulk together with Muller.

but in a roundabout way that got them their '95 conn smythe winner, so hard to complain too much right?

maclean was an impending UFA that they couldn't re-sign right?

and when you win two cups and make three finals in four years, i think it's okay to lose a good young player, even one who would have been as excellent a devil as willie mitchell, to rent a #6 at the trade deadline. do they still make the finals that year playing ken sutton? he was barely even still in the league.

Thats why I ended with the Verbeek and Meagher trades. They managed to flip Turgeon which mitigates the Verbeek trade but its still a weak return.

 

[Voight]

Bernie Nicholls and Adam Oates are two of the most underrated players from recent history..

Of course they played in a padded era so they're often overlooked - but that still shouldn't take away from what they did....

That eras focus is on Gretzky, Lemieux, Roy and Bourque when it comes to positions but a lot of guys don't get their props.

Nicholls isnt underrated at all, he's your typical 80's forward who racked up a ton of points in a high-scoring era.

 

[Hobnobs]

Nicholls isnt underrated at all, he's your typical 80's forward who racked up a ton of points in a high-scoring era.

He racked up point in 97 too. He is underrated for sure. Mainly because of his 150pts season with Gretzky.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Indeed. I always thought that was one of the catalysts for Isles dive into futility. The trade following that was also a horrible one i hindsight. Isles trade a good utility player in Hogue + 2 draft picks for Eric Fichaud who was a bust. And after that the Thomas trade which brought Wendel Clark to New York. All he did was sulk together with Muller.



Thats why I ended with the Verbeek and Meagher trades. They managed to flip Turgeon which mitigates the Verbeek trade but its still a weak return.

i still think claude lemieux for stumpy thomas was the worst. the value wasn't terrible, but probably more playoff games were swung by that trade than any other in franchise history.

 

[tjcurrie]

They sacrifized future for a cup. I doubt any flame or the management at the time has a problem with that.

See what I mean? ^

You take your Cup and you zip your lips, sure. Why would management question themselves? They're Champions, regardless of any good or bad deals. They're lucky they did win it, though. Damn lucky.

But.....it likely had more to do with Gretzky leaving Edmonton than it did that deal. It's not like the Iginla-Nieuwendyk trade, where as a Stars fan I can say that we do not win that Cup without Nieuwendyk (And obviously we got WAY more out of Nieuwendyk than the Flames got out of Wamsley and Ramage)

Ramage gave the Flames some value the very short time he was there, Wamsley I think played in 1 game that playoff. Could they not have reeled them or another like-pairing in without dealing a future 80+ goal scorer/HOFer away? Had they known Hull would turn out like that, I doubt they do it. Easy to say in retrospect, "Well they won the Cup, so whatever." It doesn't always just justify any deal made. There's more to it than that.

Hey, Edmonton won the Cup in 1990 after dealing Gretzky in '88. Guess that worked out for them.

The fact that they won the Cup just causes the total unbalance of the deals to get swept under the rug, it doesn't necessarily make them good deals. It doesn't mean they had to be done.

Still, for the Flames, even though they unknowingly dealt away a guy who would become one of the greatest goal scorers of all-time (Clearly, they did not know or they do not do it), the trade didn't sink them or send them in to some sort of tailspin. The Gilmour trade on the other hand......

 

[Hobnobs]

i still think claude lemieux for stumpy thomas was the worst. the value wasn't terrible, but probably more playoff games were swung by that trade than any other in franchise history.

Meh, Thomas led the Devils in scoring his first year there and then he got injured. Not as bad as trading a selke calibre center for an fringe NHLer.

See what I mean? ^

You take your Cup and you zip your lips, sure. Why would management question themselves? They're Champions, regardless of any good or bad deals. They're lucky they did win it, though. Damn lucky.

But.....it likely had more to do with Gretzky leaving Edmonton than it did that deal. It's not like the Iginla-Nieuwendyk trade, where as a Stars fan I can say that we do not win that Cup without Nieuwendyk (And obviously we got WAY more out of Nieuwendyk than the Flames got out of Wamsley and Ramage)

Ramage gave the Flames some value the very short time he was there, Wamsley I think played in 1 game that playoff. Could they not have reeled them or another like-pairing in without dealing a future 80+ goal scorer/HOFer away? Had they known Hull would turn out like that, I doubt they do it. Easy to say in retrospect, "Well they won the Cup, so whatever." It doesn't always just justify any deal made. There's more to it than that.

Hey, Edmonton won the Cup in 1990 after dealing Gretzky in '88. Guess that worked out for them.

The fact that they won the Cup just causes the total unbalance of the deals to get swept under the rug, it doesn't necessarily make them good deals. It doesn't mean they had to be done.

Still, for the Flames, even though they unknowingly dealt away a guy who would become one of the greatest goal scorers of all-time (Clearly, they did not know or they do not do it), the trade didn't sink them or send them in to some sort of tailspin. The Gilmour trade on the other hand......

If they hadnt made that trade, they wouldnt have won the cup. Because of Gary Suters injury, Ramage became extremely important in 89.

 

[Voight]

He racked up point in 97 too. He is underrated for sure. Mainly because of his 150pts season with Gretzky.

He was largely irrelevant after 1991, aside from his solid playoff showing in 1992. Like I said earlier, he racked up points in a high-scoring area and only managed 100 points once without Gretzky. He even had some weak seasons playing with Robitaille. Theres a reason he's not in the HHOF despite accumulating 1200 points.

 

[Hobnobs]

He was largely irrelevant after 1991, aside from his solid playoff showing in 1992. Like I said earlier, he racked up points in a high-scoring area and only managed 100 points once without Gretzky. He even had some weak seasons playing with Robitaille. Theres a reason he's not in the HHOF despite accumulating 1200 points.

What are you talking about? He was a PPG player in 95 and 96. His career was derailed by injuries sure but he wasnt irrelevant until his last couple of seasons. He led one of the best teams in the NHL in points ffs. You just proved that he is underrated...

 

[And You Feel Shame]

Indeed. I always thought that was one of the catalysts for Isles dive into futility. The trade following that was also a horrible one i hindsight. Isles trade a good utility player in Hogue + 2 draft picks for Eric Fichaud who was a bust. And after that the Thomas trade which brought Wendel Clark to New York. All he did was sulk together with Muller.

Clark clearly wasn't excited to be here, but at least he was a professional about it and we were able to parlay him (with Schneider) into Kenny Jonsson and the pick that became Roberto Luongo.

You're right, though, it was the Turgeon move combined with Hogue the same day that severed the ties to the run in 1993. Trading Stumpy for Claude Lemiuex and then turning Lemieux into Clark was a clear sign that the franchise was in turmoil and not heading at all in the right direction. The seeds were planted by Maloney in the 1993 expansion draft where he left Fitzgerald and Healy exposed. He had a plan to replace Healy, but Fitzgerald was pretty important to the '93 team and they never really found someone to fill that role properly.

After the housecleaning moves removing Turgeon and Hogue, players like Ferraro and Flatley became disenfranchised as well.

As an interesting side note, those early days of Mike Milbury - the cash strapped days of questionable ownership - produced some excellent personnel moves. It was when ownership stabilized and payroll increased that things went to crap again. Kid left alone in the candy store syndrome. MM's legacy should always include the quality moves he made while the franchise was at death's door to somewhat offset the absolutely awful ones he made afterwards. (Also should be noted that he made some dogs early on as well, such moving Kasparaitis to Pittsburgh for Smolinski)

 

[PatrickMcC]

Bishop for conacher

Hossa for 50in07

 

[BobRouse]

Martin Erat
Michael Latta



Filip Forsberg

I will always hate GMGM for that

You must be a young Caps fan!

Ridley for Rob Pearson was awful. Ridley was monstrously consistent and productive and just came off 80 and 70 pt seasons and played a strong 2 way game. Pearson was awful. 0 goals for us an became a minor leaguer soon after.

Then there was Dino for Kevin firkin Miller! Dino was a playoff beast and just came off a 38 goal year. Miller sucked for us.

Finally Courtnall for Zezel and average Mike Lalor. In fairness Courtnall demanded a trade but the return was poor. Zezel was parlayed for Iafrate but the initial trade was brutal. He was by far the best LW we have had until Ovechkin

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Nicholls isnt underrated at all, he's your typical 80's forward who racked up a ton of points in a high-scoring era.

He had one season where he put up something crazy like 150 points - outside of that the guy was certainly a star player..... He was better than Glenn Anderson...

 

[Voight]

He had one season where he put up something crazy like 150 points - outside of that the guy was certainly a star player..... He was better than Glenn Anderson...

Awesome, he put up 150 points playing with 99. I'm not saying he isn't a star but he's your typical 1980's star forward who scored a ton given the era. A guy like Federko played less games and has less points bit also had many top 10 finishes, Nicholls has two and those came while playing with Gretzky.

But we'll always have the Pumper Nicholl.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Calgary trading away Gilmour to the Leafs has to hurt as a Flames fan.