A team's worst ever trade..

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,585
15,948
Whole post is fantastic reasoning, but this is a whip smart point. Recchi and Stevens weren't stars going into the 90-91 season. Just young players coming off pretty good seasons.

I'm sure it was easy to fall into the trap of thinking Cullen was a guy who could get the most of his wings, when in reality, he just happened to be a pretty good player fortunate enough to be on a line with a future first team all-star and an eventual Hall of Famer having simultaneous breakout seasons. Stevens and Recchi were both late rounders--nobody thought they'd become what they did, even in Pittsburgh.

Two years later, both wings would have 50 goal, 120 point seasons playing for two different hockey clubs.

Cullen still posted 70 something that year, which underscores that he was definitely not some scub, but he wasn't Recchi or Stevens, either.

Kind of reminds me of how Benn was thought to be something of a product of Eriksson early in his career.

was just thinking about this: i think history will show that tyler johnson is kind of a cullen, while palat and kuch are the real deal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dingo

tjcurrie

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
3,930
143
Gibbons, Alberta
:stars

I'm honestly not 100% sure here. Instantly the Nieuwendyk/Langenbrunner for McKay/Arnott trade in 2002 comes to mind, but I'm not sure.

Wasn't technically the same deal, but in succession...

Jan 5, 1975 - Minnesota trades J.P. Parise to NYI for Doug Rombough and Ernie Hickie
Jan 7, 1975 - Minnesota trades Jude Drouin to NYI for Craig Cameron

Deals worked out very well for NYI, not so much us.

Dec 11, 1990 - Minnesota trades Larry Murphy and Peter Taglianetti to Pittsburgh for Jom Johnson and Chris Dahlquist.

Then GM Bobby Clarke was given permission to deal anyone who he felt wasn't gritty enough or willing to sacrifice everything for Bob Gainey's style of game. Clearly he wasn't a big fan of Murphy. Ironically we would meet the Penguins in the Final that season, and only Mario outscored Murphy that series. Both Johnson and Dahlquist were good for us and we did go on that nice run so I don't want to label this as necessarily a bad trade, but I can't help but feel that Murphy could have helped us more moving forward had we held on to him. He was quite obviously and easily the best player in the deal.
 

tjcurrie

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
3,930
143
Gibbons, Alberta
^ I think if the Stars fail to win in 99 Iggy for Nieuwendyk would take the cake

Yeah. Good point. Probably right.

Apparently we could have given Todd Harvey instead of Jarome. So in a way, that right there may make it the worst, even if it did result in a Cup.
 

Michel Beauchamp

Canadiens' fan since 1958
Mar 17, 2008
22,971
3,190
Laval, Qc
Worst trades ever, I'm a Habs fan so I'll start with Gomez and stuff for McDonagh and Higgins.. Gomez was so so ok for 2 years then whatever.. Habs could use McD now I guess, for like 12 years.. Rangers owned the Habs on this one..

What's yours..

For the older fans, the Chelios trade.
 

Jinsell

Registered User
May 11, 2007
728
23
Dec 11, 1990 - Minnesota trades Larry Murphy and Peter Taglianetti to Pittsburgh for Jom Johnson and Chris Dahlquist.

Then GM Bobby Clarke was given permission to deal anyone who he felt wasn't gritty enough or willing to sacrifice everything for Bob Gainey's style of game. Clearly he wasn't a big fan of Murphy. Ironically we would meet the Penguins in the Final that season, and only Mario outscored Murphy that series. Both Johnson and Dahlquist were good for us and we did go on that nice run so I don't want to label this as necessarily a bad trade, but I can't help but feel that Murphy could have helped us more moving forward had we held on to him. He was quite obviously and easily the best player in the deal.

That's about the best explanation I can think of for this baffling trade. Not to disrespect Jimmy Johnson or Chris Dahlquist, but neither guy was Larry friggin' Murphy. :facepalm:

Clarke apparently criticized his predecessor, Jack Ferreira, for trading away Mike Gartner in March and then eight months later made a trade that was just as bad if not worse. :help:

I will add that, like Ron Francis, Larry Murphy in 1990 wasn't as highly regarded as he would be later his career. In fact, he had basically been run out of Washington by the fans and the media when he was dealt to Minnesota in 1989. With the North Stars, Murphy put up solid offensive numbers, but his atrocious plus-minus prompted the media to label him a defensive liability. It didn't help matters when Pierre Page made him a healthy scratch during a lengthy mid-season slump in 1989-90.

In the months after the trade, I recall the Minnesota media (or maybe it was Bob Clarke himself) claiming that had the North Stars not traded Larry Murphy then Mark Tinordi wouldn't have had his breakout season. Not sure if I agree with this or not as I don't see how Murphy's departure really opened the door for Tinordi. You have to wonder where would the North Stars have been had they kept both Murphy and Gartner.
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,266
12,895
Toronto, Ontario
Yeah, I guess this would be about the worst. Lou didn't make many bad trades at all, he preferred to let his talent walk via free agency.

I think the Phil Housley trade was worse.

It didn't help the Devils (they missed the playoffs) and it cost them Tommy Albelien and Cale Hulse, both of who went on to deliver several seasons of NHL play. I think they gave up someone else, too ... Maybe Jocelyn Lemieux or someone like that.
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,266
12,895
Toronto, Ontario
Ronnie Franchise was not viewed the same in 1990 as he is now. The back half of his career was freaking phenomenal.

This is quite simply not true. He was known as Ronnie Franchise, cause, you know, he was the franchise. He was very highly regarded around the league.
 

kovacro

Uvijek Vjerni
Nov 20, 2008
9,744
5,133
Hamilton, ON
The Kings were known for some beauties in the late 70's and early 80's. This one shows of their display of top notch asset management.

Date October 9, 1978

Boston Bruins acquire 1979 1st round pick (#8-Ray Bourque)

Los Angeles Kings acquire goaltender Ron Grahame

Date December 12, 1980

Los Angeles Kings acquire cash

Quebec Nordiques acquire goaltender Ron Grahame

Solid reference website for trades.

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/home
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
You must be a young Caps fan! :)

Ridley for Rob Pearson was awful. Ridley was monstrously consistent and productive and just came off 80 and 70 pt seasons and played a strong 2 way game. Pearson was awful. 0 goals for us an became a minor leaguer soon after.

Then there was Dino for Kevin firkin Miller! Dino was a playoff beast and just came off a 38 goal year. Miller sucked for us.

Finally Courtnall for Zezel and average Mike Lalor. In fairness Courtnall demanded a trade but the return was poor. Zezel was parlayed for Iafrate but the initial trade was brutal. He was by far the best LW we have had until Ovechkin

The Forsberg deal is worse than all of those combined.

Bad deals, yes, but Ridley and Ciccarelli were in their 30s at the time. Ridley didn't have another full healthy season after being traded.

Trading a guy you've just drafted at #11 overall for a guy universally known around the league to be washed-up is about as bad as it gets, and will hurt that franchise for a decade.
 

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,864
2,236
Chara did not look anything like a scrub at the time.

He was a slow defenseman with balance problems that was caught out of position a lot. It might have been an exaggeration to call him a scrub but it didnt look good.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,585
15,948
This is quite simply not true. He was known as Ronnie Franchise, cause, you know, he was the franchise. He was very highly regarded around the league.

to be fair, he was also known as ronnie franchise because... his last name is francis.

i mean, people used to call steve francis, who was once disastrously acquired by my team's new assistant GM for a two-time scoring champion, "stevie franchise." and that francis was never a franchise anything, though he did once get choked in a club by stephen jackson but i digress.
 

Brodeur

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
25,864
15,275
San Diego
Devils worst?

Verbeek for Sylvain Turgeon predated my time as a fan, but that's a tough one to top as a Devils fan. The one that usually comes to the top of my head is trading a young Willie Mitchell for Sean O'Donnell in 2001.

O'Donnell was a respected defender, but simply didn't mesh on a pairing with Colin White. O'Donnell struggled to the point where he was a healthy scratch for a couple games in the Finals against Colorado.

I think the Phil Housley trade was worse.

It didn't help the Devils (they missed the playoffs) and it cost them Tommy Albelien and Cale Hulse, both of who went on to deliver several seasons of NHL play. I think they gave up someone else, too ... Maybe Jocelyn Lemieux or someone like that.

One hidden part of trading for impending UFAs pre-2005 was the compensatory pick. The Devils got the 58th overall pick in 1997 for losing Housley to free agency. Hulse isn't somebody I'd lose too much sleep about, or at least I'd consider Mitchell a bigger loss.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
For the Canucks, the worst 5 trades ever would look something like :

1) Neely and #3 overall for Barry Pederson, 1986. Don't really need to discuss this any more.

2) Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago for Tiger Williams and Jerry Butler, 1980. Williams' popularity mitigates this somewhat, but Vaive and Derlago averaged 90 goals/season for the 5 years after this trade. Both were former top-5 picks aged 21 and 22.

3) Bob Dailey for Larry Goodenough, 1977. Largely forgotten disaster deal. Dailey was a mammoth skilled defender having a down year at age 23. Went on to become Philadelphia's top defender through the late 1980s and play in two All-Star games before a career-ending injury at age 28. Goodenough was a disaster as a Canuck and was in the minors less than a year later.

4) Dave Scatchard, Kevin Weekes, and Bill Muckalt for Felix Potvin, 1999. Scatchard and Weekes were contributing NHL players for a decade, and Weekes was traded for the #5 overall pick in the 2000 draft 6 months later. Potvin became the Canucks' highest-paid player, stunk out the joint, and was given away for nothing 14 months later. Probably the least popular Canuck ever not named Messier.

5) Michael Grabner, Steve Bernier, and a #1 pick for Keith Ballard, 2010. This was bad less for what was given up (which mainly didn't turn out) and more for the albatross contract Vancouver was stuck with through their period as an elite team, hamstringing management's ability to improve the team in other areas.

As well, although it wasn't a single move, Harry Neale trading Vancouver's only 3 veteran two way-defenders (Harold Snepsts, Kevin McCarthy, and Lars Lindgren) all for nothing in the spring of 1984 was utterly bizarre, and led to the team finishing in last place with the worst defensive record ever for a non-expansion team while dressing 4 rookies in their top-6.

________

Several of Jim Benning's trades will probably end up here (Kesler, Lack, possibly Kassian) but will obviously wait to see just how bad they turn out before including them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Regular David Bruce

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,585
15,948
For the Canucks, the worst 5 trades ever would look something like :

1) Neely and #3 overall for Barry Pederson, 1986. Don't really need to discuss this any more.

2) Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago for Tiger Williams and Jerry Butler, 1980. Williams' popularity mitigates this somewhat, but Vaive and Derlago averaged 90 goals/season for the 5 years after this trade. Both were former top-5 picks aged 21 and 22.

3) Bob Dailey for Larry Goodenough, 1977. Largely forgotten disaster deal. Dailey was a mammoth skilled defender having a down year at age 23. Went on to become Philadelphia's top defender through the late 1980s and play in two All-Star games before a career-ending injury at age 28. Goodenough was a disaster as a Canuck and was in the minors less than a year later.

4) Dave Scatchard, Kevin Weekes, and Bill Muckalt for Felix Potvin, 1999. Scatchard and Weekes were contributing NHL players for a decade, and Weekes was traded for the #5 overall pick in the 2000 draft 6 months later. Potvin became the Canucks' highest-paid player, stunk out the joint, and was given away for nothing 14 months later. Probably the least popular Canuck ever not named Messier.

5) Michael Grabner, Steve Bernier, and a #1 pick for Keith Ballard, 2010. This was bad less for what was given up (which mainly didn't turn out) and more for the albatross contract Vancouver was stuck with through their period as an elite team, hamstringing management's ability to improve the team in other areas.

As well, although it wasn't a single move, Harry Neale trading Vancouver's only 3 veteran two way-defenders (Harold Snepsts, Kevin McCarthy, and Lars Lindgren) all for nothing in the spring of 1984 was utterly bizarre, and led to the team finishing in last place with the worst defensive record ever for a non-expansion team while dressing 4 rookies in their top-6.

________

Several of Jim Benning's trades will probably end up here (Kesler, Lack, possibly Kassian) but will obviously wait to see just how bad they turn out before including them.

OT but vaive and derlago for tiger and jerry butler feels very kassian for prust to me, minus the cinderella run of course. i guess that's very flattering to kassian, and very insulting to tiger and butler, who were both excellent role players, but i mean it in the sense of massively overpaying with talent, promise, and youth for intangibles. so a poor man's vaive/tiger trade. note also, that the tiger/vaive trade got roger nielson back his old soldiers; remind you of anyone?

disagree with #4. more of a "who cares?" deal. none of the four players being/not being here would have made a lick of difference during those lost years. though yeah, potvin sucked, as the rangers fans like to say.

#5 is definitely a "man if that trade never happened, can you imagine?" in that we wouldn't have had to play tambellini on the second line in the last games of the finals, and we might (but just as likely not) have re-signed ehrhoff post 2011. but in and of itself, a defensible trade at the time.

marty gelinas and kirk mclean for sean burke, geoff sanderson, and enrico ciccone is definitely one i'd like to have back. gelinas is a guy i'd have liked to see stick around for the early 2000s; would have really helped our scoring depth during the naz/tussi years. and he was a textbook keenan guy too, whereas geoff sanderson was anything but (and was traded for brad may soon after). and in fact, keenan later signed gelinas as a UFA when he was GM of the panthers.
 
Last edited:

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,585
15,948
I'm probably in the minority, but I still don't consider the Lindros trade a bad one for Philadelphia.

i wouldn't call it a "win" for philly, but i don't think it was a bad trade either. they traded for a pillar to build a powerhouse around, and then they built that powerhouse. they didn't win a cup, but they were a legit contender for half a decade with lindros. even given what they gave up, how much more can you reasonably ask for in a trade?
 

MiamiScreamingEagles

Global Moderator
Jan 17, 2004
71,039
48,011
3) Bob Dailey for Larry Goodenough, 1977. Largely forgotten disaster deal. Dailey was a mammoth skilled defender having a down year at age 23. Went on to become Philadelphia's top defender through the late 1980s and play in two All-Star games before a career-ending injury at age 28. Goodenough was a disaster as a Canuck and was in the minors less than a year later.

This isn't intended to correct your post but merely something to emphasize: Dailey's career ended prematurely as you mentioned, but in 1982 after he and Tony McKegney had an awkward collision for a touch-up icing. He played parts of six seasons with the club. At no point was he with the team in the late 1980s. While he did attempt a comeback in the mid-80s at the AHL level, that was brief and unsuccessful.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
40,373
16,652
Mulberry Street

tjcurrie

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
3,930
143
Gibbons, Alberta
That's about the best explanation I can think of for this baffling trade. Not to disrespect Jimmy Johnson or Chris Dahlquist, but neither guy was Larry friggin' Murphy. :facepalm:

Clarke apparently criticized his predecessor, Jack Ferreira, for trading away Mike Gartner in March and then eight months later made a trade that was just as bad if not worse. :help:

I will add that, like Ron Francis, Larry Murphy in 1990 wasn't as highly regarded as he would be later his career. In fact, he had basically been run out of Washington by the fans and the media when he was dealt to Minnesota in 1989. With the North Stars, Murphy put up solid offensive numbers, but his atrocious plus-minus prompted the media to label him a defensive liability. It didn't help matters when Pierre Page made him a healthy scratch during a lengthy mid-season slump in 1989-90.

In the months after the trade, I recall the Minnesota media (or maybe it was Bob Clarke himself) claiming that had the North Stars not traded Larry Murphy then Mark Tinordi wouldn't have had his breakout season. Not sure if I agree with this or not as I don't see how Murphy's departure really opened the door for Tinordi. You have to wonder where would the North Stars have been had they kept both Murphy and Gartner.

Great post. I gotta say, I always enjoy when you join in and we discuss the North Stars.

Depends I think on where Tinordi sat in their big picture prior to the trade, I guess. If they in fact gave him more opportunity because of it, then I suppose it could be said. But who knows, totally possible he muscles his way through the lineup anyways. He did bring them a big missing element, and something that Murphy did not.

I know Gartner had his warts, and truthfully I think many are too hard on him around here, but I wonder the same. Had we held on to both he and Murphy, then what? Better on paper obviously, even though Dahlen was excellent for us, but just adding it all up....

Larry Murphy + Mike Gartner

Or

Ulf Dahlen, Chris Dahlquist, Jim Johnson

Speaking of Tinordi....

Another trade that happened that was kind of a tragedy in why it happened, Tinordi breaking his femur later in the 1993-94 season crashing in to the boards in L.A., we then traded Ulf Dahlen to San Jose for Doug Zmolek and Mike Lalor out of what Gainey considered necessity. Mike Modano's winger - one of our better forwards, for 2 depth defensemen.

Had Tinordi not broken his leg, trade never happens. That means we roll in to the playoffs with Tinordi (the captain) and Dahlen in the lineup, rather than Zmolek and Lalor. Do we beat the Canucks in round 2? Do we take their place in the Final vs NYR? I don't want to say yes, but we're certainly a much better team.
 
Last edited:

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,585
15,948
it's an interesting question: does getting rid of the "wrong" kind of player open up opportunities for the "right" kind of player to grow with his new responsibilities? tinordi didn't just break out; he became the captain and arguably set the tone for the team that hatcher would captain to a cup.

but on the other hand, i can certainly see room on the '91 north stars for both tinordi and murphy. for one: they played opposite sides on the PP. murphy wasn't so much of a big softie that he was rubbing off on younger guys, was he? i seriously doubt that.

whereas gartner, i don't think he was detrimental by any stretch but i can see why that deal was necessary. with gagner and bellows putting up basically equal goal totals, did you really need gartner? and dahlen gave you a grinding element that went a long way.

although one what-if is, if gartner never gets traded, then you maybe don't have to trade bellows for russ courtnall later on. and imagine modano and gartner flying together.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
OT but vaive and derlago for tiger and jerry butler feels very kassian for prust to me, minus the cinderella run of course. i guess that's very flattering to kassian, and very insulting to tiger and butler, who were both excellent role players, but i mean it in the sense of massively overpaying with talent, promise, and youth for intangibles. so a poor man's vaive/tiger trade. note also, that the tiger/vaive trade got roger nielson back his old soldiers; remind you of anyone?

disagree with #4. more of a "who cares?" deal. none of the four players being/not being here would have made a lick of difference during those lost years. though yeah, potvin sucked, as the rangers fans like to say.

#5 is definitely a "man if that trade never happened, can you imagine?" in that we wouldn't have had to play tambellini on the second line in the last games of the finals, and we might (but just as likely not) have re-signed ehrhoff post 2011. but in and of itself, a defensible trade at the time.

marty gelinas and kirk mclean for sean burke, geoff sanderson, and enrico ciccone is definitely one i'd like to have back. gelinas is a guy i'd have liked to see stick around for the early 2000s; would have really helped our scoring depth during the naz/tussi years. and he was a textbook keenan guy too, whereas geoff sanderson was anything but (and was traded for brad may soon after). and in fact, keenan later signed gelinas as a UFA when he was GM of the panthers.

I thought about the Gelinas/McLean trade but we actually received pretty good value back there - the problem was the later trades that shifted Burke and Sanderson for May and Snow. McLean was done in any case, so even at that, Gelinas for May and Snow isn't THAT bad.

On the Potvin deal, I think it's forgotten just how good Scatchard was for 4-5 years with the Islanders - a horse of a checking center who scored 27 goals one year. After the Quinn regime spent a decade looking for a Joel Otto, it burned like hell to give the closest we ever got to that away for nothing.

Really, all the Burke goaltending moves from 1998-2001 could be lumped together. Trading for Dan Cloutier (for Adrian Aucoin which was terrible) instead of the available Nikolai Khabibulin probably cost us a Cup in 2003.

Agreed that the Prust-Kassian trade has the 'feel' of one that's going to go horribly, terribly wrong, provided Kassian stays healthy. Williams was at least a good player - 26 at the time and good for ~20 goals every year. Prust is 31, washed-up, and had 4 goals last year. Awful.


This isn't intended to correct your post but merely something to emphasize: Dailey's career ended prematurely as you mentioned, but in 1982 after he and Tony McKegney had an awkward collision for a touch-up icing. He played parts of six seasons with the club. At no point was he with the team in the late 1980s. While he did attempt a comeback in the mid-80s at the AHL level, that was brief and unsuccessful.

Whoops, yeah, I knew that incident happened in 1981 or 1982.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->